Are deadbeat family member not saved? 1 Tim 5:8

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JohnB

JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
 
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shittim said:
Don't believe we are to enable sloth.:unsure:(y):):coffee:
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Absolutely. God has always supported a strong work ethic, and then decreed one day of rest from all labor. Christ worked hard every day as we see in the Gospels. And He was so tired one day that He was sleeping through a storm. And Jesus said that the Father was also constantly working. There are no "retirees" in the Bible. Moses was 120 years old and working hard when God retired him.

1. God says that the one who will not work should not eat.
2. God also says that the laborer is worthy of his hire.
3. God also says that we must be diligent in our temporal affairs and business.
4. God also says that the one who labors in the Word and doctrine should receive "double honor".
5. God also says that we are to study the Word as "workmen that need not be ashamed".
6. God also says that the one who will not take care of his family should not claim to be a Christian.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
Absolutely. God has always supported a strong work ethic, and then decreed one day of rest from all labor. Christ worked hard every day as we see in the Gospels. And He was so tired one day that He was sleeping through a storm. And Jesus said that the Father was also constantly working. There are no "retirees" in the Bible. Moses was 120 years old and working hard when God retired him.

1. God says that the one who will not work should not eat.
2. God also says that the laborer is worthy of his hire.
3. God also says that we must be diligent in our temporal affairs and business.
4. God also says that the one who labors in the Word and doctrine should receive "double honor".
5. God also says that we are to study the Word as "workmen that need not be ashamed".
6. God also says that the one who will not take care of his family should not claim to be a Christian.
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And God gave Adam work before sin so it was good. It was only after sin that caused it to become difficult.
 
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JohnB said:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
Click to expand...
If they're saved they're saved. If they're a deadbeat their fruits are rotten and doesn't make them appear to be a good person.
But, once they're in God's grace there is no changing that.

In the case of the deadbeat Christian I think it is up to the church to correct their grievous error.
 
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Many is the time a man of God will be awakened to spend time with the Father, the spirit never sleeps, the soul sleeps, the body sleeps, the spirit doesn't sleep, hence He can communicate His truth in dreams.
blessings
 
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JohnB said:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
Click to expand...

Given that faith without works is a useless faith, then yes. What kind of Christian who calls themselves a Christian isn’t providing what they can at least to their immediate family? Even the unrighteous do that much, usually, but what about us as people of God?

At minimum, I would say we have failed if we won’t provide for them. If we are unable to provide due to X circumstances then that may be a different story, depending what it is.
 
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Wow, that whole chapter is tough.
I guess we better take care of our mom if she is widowed. And our own household ie wife and children.
 
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Yes, as Christians I believe we have an obligation that our immediate and extended family are not homeless or without food.

When financial issues arise, the immediate family should take care of the issue first, then extended family with the more distant family farther out (siblings/parents first before cousins, for example). Friends should be last resort. Not sure if this is the Biblical order, but I think this makes sense.
 
Helping family members can be complicated because jealousy may be a factor. In a group of siblings, there are the more successful ones and the less successful ones. The elderly parents usually want the wealth of the siblings to be spread out more, saying things like he/she's your brother/sister. When you have relatives abroad, things can get complicated because while your relatives may be comfortable in their country, they may expect you to help out because what is a small amount for you may be a lot for them. A lot of these issues may be matters of the heart.
 
JohnB said:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
Click to expand...
No. If they're not saved they're equal to an unbeliever.
 
MsMediator said:
Helping family members can be complicated because jealousy may be a factor. In a group of siblings, there are the more successful ones and the less successful ones. The elderly parents usually want the wealth of the siblings to be spread out more, saying things like he/she's your brother/sister. When you have relatives abroad, things can get complicated because while your relatives may be comfortable in their country, they may expect you to help out because what is a small amount for you may be a lot for them. A lot of these issues may be matters of the heart.
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Keeping in mind we are not to support sin lifestyles. If cousin chooses to be a drug addict or a deadbeat who just wont work or fend for themself we habe no obligation to support them.
 
JohnB said:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
Click to expand...
Are your family members concerned about you? :p

I think it's like anything else... it reflects your true spirit. If you have the spirit of benevolence, you help those that are truly in need. If you do not, you will find many reasons to NOT help.

I also believe God wants us to be good stewards of what He has provided to us... driving down the road, handing out $20 bills at every street corner to professional beggars is not good stewardship.
A family member that blows all the money they receive at the race track, or on drugs/alcohol, or at the casino, etc... should not be given more money. Help them in other ways that do not involve handing them cash.

I believe that verse is showing us what the proper spirit of benevolence and love should be, for our earthly family, and our spiritual family as well.
 
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JohnB said:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever
1 Timothy 5:8
Does this mean those people are not saved? Their works prove they are not Christians? No matter what they say.
Click to expand...
Works salvation 😔
 
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It's probably worthwhile to distinguish between functional and final judgments. It is impossible to go through life without making judgments. A light turns yellow. Can we make it or need to stop? One has exercised judgment.
1 Corinthians 2 says as spiritual people we are to judge all things. We can shirk this responsibility or not. But making functional judgments does not mean we should or are even qualified to make final judgments.
In the example above, if a person neglects the care of family, they are in general transgressing the law. If this is an ongoing practice devoid of repentance, especially if the person has been shown the offense, it constitutes rebellion.
It is reasonable to assume that the individual has yet to pass from death to life.
There is, however, a grave danger in saying this with certainty. Our observations are limited regardless of how well they are informed. We lack the ability to discern the heart. Thus, all judgment for us means functional, not final.
 
Snacks said:
Works salvation
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LOL @ works salvation. This reminds me of the Pharisees in Mark 7 who were always coming up with reasons why they didn't have to take care of their parents. They used pious excuses like they couldn't help them because they had already dedicated all their resources to God. Yeah, the claim of "works salvation" can get you out of a lot of things you'd rather not do. LOL
 
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