Are King James Bible believers "Idolaters"?

[resurrection33]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

and, if you kept the commandments all your life, but did not love as Christ said you should, it serves you nothing, you still go to hell.

1 john 4:16-18

One of the commandments is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. Like I say, if you obey the commandments, I think you're okay.

 

[TannarDarr]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

One of the commandments is to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. Like I say, if you obey the commandments, I think you're okay.

hehehe, well, crap. That sorta backfired. the point is, it's not about obedience, it's about the love. God forgave you the sins, so you could pursue the growth in love with no ill conscience.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

hehehe, well, crap. That sorta backfired. the point is, it's not about obedience, it's about the love. God forgave you the sins, so you could pursue the growth in love with no ill conscience.

The name of this thread has changed. It started out being "Are King James Bible believers 'Idolaters'?," so I'm not even sure what we are talking about now. I was trying to make the point that I don't think we need to make a huge deal about the version of the Bible we use.

It's true the Lord forgives us of our sins, but we make our lives a WHOLE lot easier when we resist temptation.

 

[TannarDarr]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

The name of this thread has changed. It started out being "Are King James Bible believers 'Idolaters'?," so I'm not even sure what we are talking about now. I was trying to make the point that I don't think we need to make a huge deal about the version of the Bible we use.

It's true the Lord forgives us of our sins, but we make our lives a WHOLE lot easier when we resist temptation.

and from my view, it's important to know that you CAN resist temptation, because you learn how to love. NoT by your efforts at resisting temptation. AND for spiritually maturing, that is VERY VERY important. TO try to get there by your own efforts, no matter how stubborn we can be, is like trying to drive paneling (headless) nails with an ice pick.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

and from my view, it's important to know that you CAN resist temptation, because you learn how to love. NoT by your efforts at resisting temptation. AND for spiritually maturing, that is VERY VERY important. TO try to get there by your own efforts, no matter how stubborn we can be, is like trying to drive paneling (headless) nails with an ice pick.

It would seem to me that we do have to put forth quite a bit of effort, as we follow the Lord.

 

[brandplucked]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

I imagine most Bibles are pretty accurate. They'll tell you what the commandments are. If you obey the commandments, you're in pretty good shape, I think.

Hi Res. Well, this is about one of the weakest, non-committal and indecisive "confessions of faith" I have ever seen, and I have been around awhile. "I imagine most Bibles are pretty accurate." Brother, this is a LONG way from believing in a complete, inspired, infallible and authoritative words of God type Bible, and sadly this is where most Christians are today. May God have mercy and open the eyes of more of His people as to where His perfect words are today and have been in the greatest Bible every printed.

Res, you might want to consider this article I wrote about the sovereign God working in history to fulfill His promises to preserve His words. God either has preserved them in "the book of the LORD" or He lied to us. If there were a true Bible and Absolute Standard on this earth, then it seems reasonable to expect that God has somehow born witness to this Bible. The evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of the King James Holy Bible. God has used it in history far more than any other and it is the ONLY one believed by thousands of redeemed saints of God to be the infallible words of the living God.


God's Persistent Witness to the Absolute Standard of Written Truth - The King James Holy Bible

Absolute Standard - Another King James Bible Believer


"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

God bless.

Nobody seriously believes or defends versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, ISV, RV or Daffy Duck Version to be God's infallible words. This should tell you something. God bless

 

[resurrection33]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

Hi Res. Well, this is about one of the weakest, non-committal and indecisive "confessions of faith" I have ever seen, and I have been around awhile. "I imagine most Bibles are pretty accurate." Brother, this is a LONG way from believing in a complete, inspired, infallible and authoritative words of God type Bible, and sadly this is where most Christians are today. May God have mercy and open the eyes of more of His people as to where His perfect words are today and have been in the greatest Bible every printed.

Res, you might want to consider this article I wrote about the sovereign God working in history to fulfill His promises to preserve His words. God either has preserved them in "the book of the LORD" or He lied to us. If there were a true Bible and Absolute Standard on this earth, then it seems reasonable to expect that God has somehow born witness to this Bible. The evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of the King James Holy Bible. God has used it in history far more than any other and it is the ONLY one believed by thousands of redeemed saints of God to be the infallible words of the living God.


God's Persistent Witness to the Absolute Standard of Written Truth - The King James Holy Bible

Absolute Standard - Another King James Bible Believer


"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

God bless.

Nobody seriously believes or defends versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, ISV, RV or Daffy Duck Version to be God's infallible words. This should tell you something. God bless

If we obey the Lord's commandments, I think we are in pretty good shape.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

I was trying to make the point that I don't think we need to make a huge deal about the version of the Bible we use.

Resurrection33, but the issue over the Bible Versions is a serious one. Look at how great the LORD values His word:

Psalm 138:2 KJV
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.



Now lets see some more Scriptures that show how Strongly God values His words:


Matthew 24:35 KJV
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



Luke 9:26 KJV
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.


Mark 8:38 KJV
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.



John 12:47-48 KJV
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


John 14:23-24 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:7 KJV
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


It is a very big deal regarding which Bible we use. We get doctrine from the Bible.

And the modern versions destroy vital biblical doctrines.

So in order to have the right doctrine. Then you are going to neeneed the right Bible.

 

[resurrection33]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

Resurrection33, but the issue over the Bible Versions is a serious one. Look at how great the LORD values His word:

Psalm 138:2 KJV
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.



Now lets see some more Scriptures that show how Strongly God values His words:


Matthew 24:35 KJV
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.



Luke 9:26 KJV
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.


Mark 8:38 KJV
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.



John 12:47-48 KJV
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


John 14:23-24 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:7 KJV
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


It is a very big deal regarding which Bible we use. We get doctrine from the Bible.

And the modern versions destroy vital biblical doctrines.

So in order to have the right doctrine. Then you are going to neeneed the right Bible.

It is good to research which Bible, or Bibles are the best, but I would invest MOST of my energy trying to follow Jesus.

 

[brandplucked]

Psalm 138:2 Magnified thy word ABOVE all thy name

Hi chosen. And the fake bibles that NOBODY believes are the infallible words of God have messed up this verse as well as hundreds of others.


Psalm 138:2 Magnified thy word ABOVE all thy name

Psalm 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy TRUTH: for thou hast magnified thy word ABOVE all thy name."

The word "Truth" is disappearing from the modern bibles. The word TRUTH is found 118 times in the Old Testament of the KJB. In the NASB the number is down to 92, 26 fewer times than the KJB and in the NIV the number is down to 41 times, or about one third the number of times as in the KJB. Maybe with one or two more modern, improved, up to date versions, we will finally be rid of that pesky word "truth". It seems the modern scholars are working on it.

The NIV and nas have substitued "faithfullnes" for truth, and the meaning is not the same. For example in Psalms 100:5 "For the LORD is good; his MERCY is everlasting; and his TRUTH endureth to all generations." The NASB has "lovingkindness" instead of "mercy" and "faithfulness" instead of truth.

Mercy is God not dealing with us as our sins and iniquities deserve. The NIV has "love" instead of mercy, and faithfullness instead of truth.

In fact, if you look at the complete concordances, the words "mercy, merciful, and mercies" occur 288 times in the Old Testament of the KJB, while in the NASB only 51 times and the NIV only 85 times. They substitute either lovingkindness, or as in the niv "love" which is a totally different word in Hebrew and in English.

Love and mercy are not at all the same things. Mercy implies that we deserve judgment, punishment and condemnation, but God has not done so with us. Love does not have this meaning at all. Something is definitely lost in the modern versions.

The phrase in Psalm 138:2 "thou hast magnified thy word ABOVE all thy name" is found in the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation, and 1936 Hebrew- English versions, the Revised Version 1885, the NKJV 1982, the American Standard Version 1901, Green's interlinear 2000, Webster's 1833, Darby 1870, Youngs 1898, Rotherham's 1902 Emphasized Bible, the Complete Jewish Bible, the 21st Century KJV, the French Martin 1744 “car tu as magnifié ta parole au-dessus de toute ta renommée”, the Modern Greek translation, .and the Italian Diodati 1649 “tu hai magnificata la tua parola, sopra ogni tua fama.” and the 2004 Spanish Reina Valera Gomez translation - " porque has magnificado tu palabra por sobre todo tu nombre." This is literally what it says.

The NASB however says: "For Thou hast magnified Thy word ACCORDING TO all Thy name". The word is # 5921 - (al) - and it means "above" as in Gen. 1:7 the waters were above the firmament" and Gen.27:39 dew from heaven above.

The NIV, Holman, and the 2001 ESV read: "You have exalted above all things your name and your word." Just by switching a few words around they have changed the meaning of the whole sentence. But at least they correctly translated "above" whereas the NASB did not.

Thr RSV is interesting in that it reads: "Thou hast exalted above everything thing Thy name and Thy word." It reads basically like the NIV, ESV, but the RSV tells us in their footnotes: - 'Hebrew "exalted Thy word ABOVE all thy name." The NRSV reads like the RSV, and its footnote tells us that the Hebrew literally says what is found in the KJB. A similar footnote is found in the ESV.

Daniel Wallace's goofy NET version renders the verse: "for you have exalted YOUR PROMISE ABOVE THE ENTIRE SKY." Then in his footnote he tells us: "The MT reads, “for you have made great over all your name your word.” If retained, this must mean that God's mighty intervention, in fulfillment of his word of promise, surpassed anything he had done prior to this. However, the statement is odd and several emendations have been proposed. Some read, “for you have exalted over everything your name and your word,” while others suggest, “for you have exalted over all the heavens your name and your word.” The translation assumes an emendation of “your name” to “your heavens” (a construction that appears in Pss 8:3 and 144:5). The point is that God has been faithful to his promise and the reliability of that promise is apparent to all." (end of Dan Wallace and company notes)

How foolish of men to change the true words of God. The result of "altering the text" by men like Daniel Wallace is that they "understand neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm" (1 Timothy 1:7). There is no specific promise made in this Psalm that "surpassed anything he had done prior to this", as Mr. Wallace tells us. David is merely praising God for the Truth of His Word in all circumstances. It is foolish presumption on the part of some wannabe scholar to alter the text of the inerrant words of God merely because he doesn't understand the meaning of a certain passage. The fault is not with the Text, but with the Fool who places his own understanding above what God has written. Men like Wallace clearly do not believe in an inerrant Bible in any language.

Holman Standard - "You have exalted Your name AND Your promise above EVERYTHING ELSE."

Judaica Press Complete Tanach - "for You magnified Your word OVER ALL YOUR NAMES."

The Message- "Most holy is your name, most holy is your Word. "

Catholic Douay Rheims - "for thou hast magnified THY HOLY NAME ABOVE ALL."

Lamsa's translation of the Syriac - "for thou hast magnified thy word above EVERY name."

The King James Bible was the FIRST ENGLISH TRANSLATION TO GET IT RIGHT.

Wycliffe 1395 - "for thou hast magnefied thin hooli name aboue al thing."

Geneva Bible 1599 - "for thou hast magnified thy Name ABOVE ALL THINGS BY THY WORD."

Coverdale 1535 - "for thou hast magnified thy worde, acordynge vnto thy greate name."

English Standard Version 2001 - "for you have exalted above all things your name AND your word." FOOTNOTES: OR, YOU HAVE EXALTED YOUR WORD ABOVE ALL YOUR NAME." At least they got it right in their footnote!

This is what the Hebrew and the King James Bible read, but the new version editors have a much lower view of God's word, and Psalm 138:2 is one example of many where they have changed what God really said.

 

[Praus]

I don't trust Martin Luther ! In God we trust !

God bless the Swiss!

This is the most excellent Zürcher Bibel (1531), translated by Zwingli and printed by Christoph Froschauer. It's too early for Hochdeutsch, it's actually Hochalemannisch. Froschauer was a printer, not a theologian, and it was him who started the Reformation in Switzerland.

 

[brandplucked]

Hi folks. Keep firmly in mind that Praus and many others here do not believe that ANY Bible in ANY language (including those never seen and long lost originals) IS now or ever WAS the complete (66 books in a single volume) inspired and 100% true words of God. So it's "Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism" and NOBODY but the King James Bible believers still believes in the infallibility of the whole Bible. The Jesuit counter Reformation has been largely successful to destroy faith in what the RCC refers to as "The Paper Pope of Protestantism", and the vast majority of today's professing Christians no longer believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. This is where we are today and it was all prophesied in Scripture.

God Himself is sending a famine of hearing His words into the land - Amos 8:11

There will be a falling away from the faith before the return of Christ - 2 Thess. 2:3

And the Lord rhetorically asks: "Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

All of grace, believing the Book - the Authorized King James Holy Bible

God bless

 

[TannarDarr]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

It would seem to me that we do have to put forth quite a bit of effort, as we follow the Lord.

So, you want to do his job?

OF COURSE we put forth effort. But you are taking the steering wheel outta his hands it sounds to me.

Tell me, do you suggest the effort is work really hard at not sinning?
Work at avoiding temptation?
Put on the Christian smile and attitude when people can see you to be a good example?

I really wanna understand what it looks like to you, please explain.

Because as I read scripture HE does the changing, not us. But if we try to do the work, we are usurping that authority from Him. Which by no means states you are NOT working. But what you work at, in scripture is much different than anyone trying to focus on their sin issues and control them. The more you fight for control, the more control you take from God.

You can move onto a mountain top, never have a temptation again, and thus never sin, but still fail God.

NOT SINNING doesn't make you sanctified.

1 john 4:16-18. You grow in love, and sin goes away.
You focus on love, which is a works focused thing. Gal 5:6, last parable in matt 25. Eph 4:11-17, and through those works, God changes you.

Does a mother learn to love her child by reading a book?

Does a golfer learn how to swing like a pro reading a book?

Does a pitcher in baseball learn how to throw lefty instead of righty by reading a book?

NO they all occur from hands on experience. (with some caveats for mamas.)

To learn to love you have to LOOK to love, not to your sin. Like a car, you drive where you steer, and you steer where you look.

If you look to your sins all the time, you'll eventually drive there.

Anyway, my "you" here is the general you, more so than the YOU, you. And my comments are intended at the doctrine/scriptures/exegetics than picking at you.

It's just a good disagreement for us to work through.

 

[cfultz3]

Hi folks. Keep firmly in mind that Praus and many others here do not believe that ANY Bible in ANY language (including those never seen and long lost originals) IS now or ever WAS the complete (66 books in a single volume) inspired and 100% true words of God. So it's "Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism" and NOBODY but the King James Bible believers still believes in the infallibility of the whole Bible. The Jesuit counter Reformation has been largely successful to destroy faith in what the RCC refers to as "The Paper Pope of Protestantism", and the vast majority of today's professing Christians no longer believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. This is where we are today and it was all prophesied in Scripture.

God Himself is sending a famine of hearing His words into the land - Amos 8:11

There will be a falling away from the faith before the return of Christ - 2 Thess. 2:3

And the Lord rhetorically asks: "Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

All of grace, believing the Book - the Authorized King James Holy Bible

God bless

Please keep in mind the presumptuous nature of Bradplucked. He assumes that if you do not uphold the KJV then you do not believe God's word is infallible, although it was proven that KJV is just another translation.

 

[CoooCaw]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

hehehe, well, crap. That sorta backfired. the point is, it's not about obedience, it's about the love. God forgave you the sins, so you could pursue the growth in love with no ill conscience.

if you love me you will keep my commandments

 

[TannarDarr]

Re: Modern Version Mysticism

if you love me you will keep my commandments

Because the love perfects you, and He is in you and you are in Him, IF YOU LOVE HIM. The result of you loving Him is you keep the commandments. You can keep the commandments and not love him and fail.


The commandment keeping comes AFTER THE LOVE, else you are trying to work your way to heaven.

Ty for your post.

1.John 14:21
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

2.John 14:23
Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

3.John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

4.1 John 2:3
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.

5.1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


1. This one says that keeping the commands is how you know who loves Him. LOVE is the focus in both sentences, not keeping the commands. Those commands being kept are the identifier but the LOVE is the goal.

2. I can certainly understand how this one can be read both ways. but I see it as the IF is discussing a conditional, the focus is the love. The subject isn't keeping the commands it's Him being in you. And that happens because of the love. I'm relying on the 1 john 4 vss I've given above this post as the same author and assuming he doesn't change his opinion.

3. this one does put the emphasis on the identifier, the keeping the commands.

4. this is the most clear. THE KNOW Him, that's the KNOW word like know your spouse.... says you'll keep his commands as a result. 1 john 3:6 addresses this as well.
[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]1Jo 3:6
[/TD]
[TD]No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or fnknows Him.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Notice it does not say you must not sin again, to abide in him. It's discussing those who abide in Him, and saying they do not sin. NOT saying they had to stop sinning to get there.

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]1Jo 2:5
[/TD]
[TD]but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
This verse is more clear, it's syntax makes it more clear that John teaches the perfected love of God is why they keep His word.

 

[Kerry]

You know why I love KJV, because so many people are against it. If the world is for you, then somethings wrong, because we are not of this world nor partakers in it. Long live the KJV.

 

[cfultz3]

You know why I love KJV, because so many people are against it. If the world is for you, then somethings wrong, because we are not of this world nor partakers in it. Long live the KJV.

Who is against it? What do you think of those who you think are against it?

 

[Kerry]

Who is against it? What do you think of those who you think are against it?

Why do you need man to break it down for you. The Holy Spirit can give you understanding. I believe that the Holy Spirit was behind the KJV. I just don't know about modern marketing and exploiting on the the most sold book in the world. Look to obtain a copy right, which is what most are after, you must change the meaning of the text and not just the wording. It would be like I changed the tale of two cities into modern sup man. you get it. It's mostly about sales and money and not the true meaning of the text.

 

[Kerry]

You have to ask yourself, what was the motive behind this version? To make it more understandable or to make a profit? I understand the KJV just fine.