Are 'pastors' Biblical? (Modern as opposed to Biblical pastors)

[Lanolin]

If a church has a lot of long-time mature Christians who have born fruit, I think that is a valid observation. But I have also seen estimates (e.g. at the top of the Bible map) that the 'first missionary journey' took two years. If those estimates are right a half or a quarter of that were on Cyprus, then some of those elders Paul and Barnabas appointed would have been Christians for less than two years, maybe even 2 months, 6 months, 8 months, etc. depending on the city and how long Paul and Barnabas travelled.

These men probably had some experience being solid members of their communities prior to conversion, though, probably, either as Jewish men active in the synagogue or as Gentile God-fearers. Converts from the synagogue made up the core group of most of these early churches.

would elder be based on how old a person was or how mature a person was.

I was in some churches where the elders were young people and the oldies sat in the pews. I was going what? I thought elder meant 'elderly' or 'old'?!

the elder I question was someone my age who had studied in bible college. I mean great that she studied and was getting her PHD but she wasnt elderly. How can she be called an elder?

I think this topic was raised to get us thinking about how some churches are organised, whether it works or whether it breaks down, what roles we assign people as church is basically a bunch of believers gathered together to worship the Lord right?

I mean in any given group or organisation there are roles and they arent always fixed in stone. But the roles or callings are given to those who can handle it. If you wear too many hats and take too much responisbilty or overreach it isnt beneficial either.

 

[presidente]

would elder be based on how old a person was or how mature a person was.

I was in some churches where the elders were young people and the oldies sat in the pews. I was going what? I thought elder meant 'elderly' or 'old'?!

the elder I question was someone my age who had studied in bible college. I mean great that she studied and was getting her PHD but she wasnt elderly. How can she be called an elder?

I think this topic was raised to get us thinking about how some churches are organised, whether it works or whether it breaks down, what roles we assign people as church is basically a bunch of believers gathered together to worship the Lord right?

I mean in any given group or organisation there are roles and they arent always fixed in stone. But the roles or callings are given to those who can handle it. If you wear too many hats and take too much responisbilty or overreach it isnt beneficial either.

I think there is something to the fact that a word used for the basic church leadership role implies older age.

In I Timothy 5, Timothy is told not to rebuke and elder, but to entreat him as a father. Then, many verses down in the passage, it speaks of the elders who rule well. This is the same word as verse 1, inflected differently for grammar, of course. Some translators translate the word as 'older man' early in chapter, but as 'elders' when referring to those who rule well in the church.

In I Peter 5, Peter exhorts the elders to pastor and oversee (c.f. bishop) the flock of God. Then he tells the younger to submit themselves to the elder. So there is another reference to age in relation to elders.

If we consider the Old Testament background, tribes and clans had older male leaders, elders of the people. 70 of them received the Spirit that was upon Moses. When the tribes were settled into cities, a city would have elders. These cities (towns or villages if we considered the population by today's standards) later developed synagogues, and in the first century, the elders may have been intertwined with the synagogue system. Of the elders of the land, 70 would be chosen (or some portion of this 70, since some were priests, possibly elders among the priests) to be a part of the national Sanhedrin. Or it may be that these were 'judges' that made up the Sanhedrin. Be that as it may, some portion of the Sanhedrin was called 'elders' apparently. Chief priests and scribes may have made up the other groups in the Sanhedrin.

So when suddenly the Jerusalem church has 'elders' to collect money sent from Antioch by the hands of Barnabas and Saul in Antioch, there was a very long heritage they were drawing from. This occurred in a religious culture in which an assembly, a synagogue, would have elders to lead among the people, judge cases, and such.

In addition, synagogues would have had a 'ruler of the synagogue', who had an administrative role. The Bible does not equate this with elder or say the church had such a role.

Acts 20:28 equates the elders of the church in Ephesus with 'bishops.'

This is a different system than what many moderns think is normative, in which one pastor is brought in from outside of the congregation he would be pastoring, and he is often trained in a Bible college rather than raised up in house.

The Bible also does not call Timothy a 'bishop' or 'pastor', not in the text of scripture. He co-labored with Paul in evangelistic, itinerant ministry, helping Paul in his apostolic work. He likely appointed elders in the church. I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6-7 indicate that he and Silas were apostles also

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP. you're correct, Pastor is a WORK, not an Office, (this is western thinking), but it is the Gift of God himself in us who he choose for this work. Pastor is clearly defined in scriptures, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

it is not us, the indivudal, who do this WORK, but God in us who do the WORK, for there is only ONE "PASTOR" in the Church of God, as there is only ONE apostle, Prophet, Teacher, Preacher, and evangelist, and that is the Lord Jesus. we are his MINISTERS for this WORK.
for all these "WORKS" are his GIFTS. and the very first Gift on the List in 1 Corinthians 12 is the PASTORAL/BISHOP/OVERSEER Gift, Verse 8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

when Paul say, "I am an apostle", that's the representative of the Lord Jesus in that ONE "WORK". for Paul who was an apostle, was also a Pastor, and a preacher, prophet, and teacher. but he made it clear, without God, he was NOTHING... scripture,
1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." (What the apostle just confirmed is this, WITHOUT GOD, (charity, ), " I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.")
charity is LOVE, and God is ...... "LOVE". so without God, (his Gifts), he was just another Joe in the body, but it was the Pastoral Gift that empowered him to do this work which is clearly shown in the very next verse.
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
THERE IT IS, "I have the gift of prophecy". Paul the apostle was a prophet, as well as a Pastor, which is interchangable with Bishop/Overseer. lets see the Pastoral Gift, "and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge" there it is Knowledge, and Understanding, just what God in Jeremiah 3:15 say to do, "feed with knowledge and understanding".

but Paul the apostle was also a "TEACHER", 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church." but the apostle was a "PREACHER" too... 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."


for all these "WORKS" are his, God the Holy Spirit, JESUS, the GIFTS. and the very first Gift on the List, as said, in 1 Corinthians 12:8 is the PASTORAL/BISHOP/OVERSEER Gift, "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

a word of Wisdom is UNDERSTANDING, Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." Proverbs 10:13 "In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding."

so a WORD of WISDOM, is "Understanding", and "to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;" there we have it UNDERSTANDING, and KNOWLEDGE, and what did GOD say Pastors do? Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

so the "WORK" of a Pastor is Biblical, and true, because it is God himself who is the Pastor, Bishop, Overseer, and the Only, Teacher, Prophet, Preacher, and evangelist, in the ministeral arena of the body of Christ.

PICJAG,
101G.