Are Pastors Biblical?

[john832]

For what it's worth, it seems like every time I argue that John 10 is only about Jesus, I get told it applies to pastors too. So if it applies to pastors too, that implies there is such a thing as a pastor.

So if you believe pastors don't exist, but also think John 10 applies to pastors, well then there is a lil contradiction there.Kinda puts contrarians in a bind. They want to say there is no such thing as pastors, but they also want to say the verses below don't just apply to Jesus.

10 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. [SUP]3 [/SUP]To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. [SUP]5 [/SUP]A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.[SUP]12 [/SUP]He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, [SUP]15 [/SUP]just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [SUP]18 [/SUP]No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

It is only about Christ.

 

[john832]

I'll add another thing, and this may sound really weird, but I'll say it anyway.

With the "one God-called man of the congregation" mentality, often enough that one man is regarded as so special that common-sense precautions with women are not observed with that one man that would normally be observed with any other men of the church, such as being alone in a closed "office", and perhaps even physical touch, etc., and you know the result that happens sometimes.

I know a good sister in CC who had marriage problems and told the pastor, in a closed office or place where they were alone, and she says the pastor physically embraced her, so she slapped him. Good for her, because surely that's exactly how many of those sexual scandals happen.

Anyway I know even one-man-pastors can observe the same precautions and wisdom but I just think the lack of that is more prevalent with the "one God-called man of the congregation" mentality.

Sorry if that sounds weird, but I think it's a valid point.

I mean no disrespect to any pastors. I'm just giving various examples of how less Biblical mentalities and structures contribute to more problems in the church, and pitfalls.

I have a brother-in-law whose favorite comment about church pastors is "I've never seen one come out of somebody's house who wasn't picking his teeth or zipping up his pants." Unfortunately, in far too many cases, this is true.

 

[Bookends]

Paul implies that James was an apostle. I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 indicate Timothy as an apostle. He was an itinerate preacher there appointing the local elders.

Peter to was an apostle, but he all refers to himself as an elder in 1 Peter 5:1, "I who am a fellow elder..." Timothy may have been an itinerate preacher, but that's not so say he didn't belong to a local congregation when he wasn't traveling. Having a home base isn't unheard of. In 1 Timothy Paul urges Timothy to stay in Ephesus. Sounds like Paul is acting like a region pastor here, granted it wasn't a command or order.

Elders should pastor. But notice it says 'elders' and not 'THE pastor.'

Yes, you are right, I was reading the NKJV where in verse it says "shepherd the flock", perhaps a better translation should read "feed the flock". I stand corrected, thank you.

Christ is the King.

No doubt. But allowing our church to have a head elder/pastor enables that elder a greater capacity to reach people and to feed the flock, as in a paid position. Have you ever preached before? It takes a lot of preparation, not only that a lot of time and money spent went into becoming learned of the word, not everyone can do this since they work full time providing for their families. Again, it may not be directly scriptural for a head elder/pastor but one who is dedicated to ministry in learning and serving is scriptural, and Paul makes it clear that it's ok to get paid for your labors, 1 Corinthians 9:3-10 and 1 Timothy 5:18. Again, having a paid/full time Elder, is very beneficial to the flock.

But in saying this, he never be expected to the only one in making decisions or left alone as the only elder, again in the every beginning of this thread I said the bible speaks of a plurality leadership/eldership.

 

[Bookends]

I have a brother-in-law whose favorite comment about church pastors is "I've never seen one come out of somebody's house who wasn't picking his teeth or zipping up his pants." Unfortunately, in far too many cases, this is true.

I think this comment is very biased, judgmental and opinionated. All it takes is a few occasions and a few negative experiences where one would taint the whole group. This is not my experience of pastors.

 

[Ariel82]

Differences between Biblical Elders and Modern Pastors
- The modern pastor is often hired to work at a church he is not a part of.
- The Biblical elders were appointed from within churches of which they were a part.

I know a lot of churches that have both Biblical elders and modern pastor. The elders run the church but the pastor is the spokesperson and they become part of the church after being hired.

- The modern pastorate is a hired role.
- The Biblical elders lead a community of which they are a part.

true but I know some people who still work to pay their bills. Supporting people who work for God's kingdom is Biblical.

- The Biblical elder is an 'elder'.
- The modern pastor could be a 'younger' if he has the right education, or claims to be called and speaks well.

so how old do you think a "elder" is? over 30?

- The Biblical elder had to be the husband of one wife and rule his children well.
- The modern pastor could be unmarried or have a household that's all messed up. Lots of churches won't check. He needs to speak well, though, and maybe have a seminary education.

I've always wondered about that.

- The Biblical elder was taught by the apostles or by others who had received apostolic instruction-- raised up from within the church or by training by evangelistic ministers.
- The modern pastor may not have a chance of getting hired for this professional position without a Bible College or seminary degree..

how do you know that the professors in the Bible college or seminary have NOT received apostolic instruction?

- The main role of the modern pastor is to preach 'the Sunday sermon.'
- The Bible gives no evidence that regular church meetings were based on one long sermon. Rather 'every one of you' sang a psalm, taught a doctrine, shared a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. The Bible says 'ye may all prophesy' and says of gatherings of the church 'exhort one another.

most of the churches I've attend have a music ministry where the church sings psalms, the pastor is not always the one teaching/preaching. sometimes they have youth who feel moved to teach or visiting pastors to speak. Also the main role of a pastor is NOT the Sunday sermon. that is just what most of the world who don't know pastors see. Most of the pastors I know spend a few hours a week writing their sermons, they spend a few hours on Sunday preaching it. However the majority of their time is spend pastoring to the flock: answering phone calls from members of the congregation, visiting the elderly and sick, etc.

I believe the church to function properly need a board of elders who are mature in their walk with Christ as a support for the pastor, who is more the spokesperson than the "head" for Christ is the head of His church.

 

[jb]

The government and practices in churches today bear little if any similarity to what the early Church practised, you can find a bit of a study on early Church government and practices Here it also covers the ministeries of the early Church and you will find it most informative...

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[ajiichi]

Your definition is based on your thinking, in human way of understanding.

 

[ajiichi]

Hello everyone,

Based in the Bible, there are pastors that you can read.
Actually, there are 2 kinds of pastors written:

1: Good Shepherd/Pastor - John 10:11 (Christ)
2: Greedy Dogs (Shepherd) - Isaiah 56:11 (false pastors)

We must look for the pastor which shall feed us with knowledge and understanding. Not in lies and confussion
(Jeremiah 3:15)

If you have more questions, please feel free to email me:
[email protected]

All answers will be read in the Bible.
Thanks and God Bless.

 

[BradC]

Shepherd and pastor are the same word (poimen) and through the scriptures the sheep define the role of the pastor. They are those who commit to (or bring themselves under) the care, managerial duties and teachings of that shepherd, who cares for their soul. The pastor is to preach and teach and has a delegated rule over them, who the sheep are to pray for, obey and submits themselves unto. Some will not like that because they do not want to be submitted under a man of God. They want to be a Christian without having a pastor over them in the Lord and there is no way to learn humility or receive grace without submitting to those that God has called to be over them. The term 'over' scares them to death and they only want Christ to be 'over' them. Sounds spiritual but it's not biblical and it's not how the body of Christ functions with Christ as the head. The head (Christ) gave gifts to the church (shepherds / pastors) and they are given from above as under shepherds in Christ's stead with the chief shepherd over them. The pastors have an awesome responsibility to feed the flock and they are to be honored and given double honor because of their calling. Only some are called to that position but those who are must labor in the word and doctrine, must lay their life down for the sheep, must take up their cross, deny themselves of many things and put Christ and the church first in all things. Their life is not their own because they have been bought with a price and have been delegated to a qualified position in the church as examples and spectacles of the grace of God. Now who do you think the pastor is accountable to first and foremost? You and me OR Christ the over shepherd?

 

[Brother_Don]

when Jesus followers would teach and preach, they let the Holy Spirit speak through them, and if they was questioned they could back it up with scripture, this is my thoughts. i don't think they spent a bunch of time preparing for what to say.

 

[Bookends]

when Jesus followers would teach and preach, they let the Holy Spirit speak through them, and if they was questioned they could back it up with scripture, this is my thoughts. i don't think they spent a bunch of time preparing for what to say.

This didn't happen over night. The had many misconceptions about Christ and prophecy while following Christ, even Paul set Peter right in Galatians. One who starts preaching without first learning is one I'd avoid.