Are the elect of God created or are the elect of God discovered?

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,705
542
113
#21
Hello Intersection, that's an interesting question to ask, "are the elect of God created or discovered" (or an interesting/new way of asking a very old question ;)), and some interesting verses to discuss about this topic, as well, so thank you for all of that :)

First off however (since I see that you are a new member here), welcome to CChat!

As far as your OP title question is concerned, my first thought was that God neither creates nor discovers His elect, rather, He chooses us (but that really amounts to not much more than saying the same thing in two different ways, doesn't it ;)).

Interestingly, "create" and "discover" are words that do get right to the heart of the matter concerning what our two/principal systematic theologies teach us about election. I also find it fascinating that both seem to be first (and perhaps even most clearly) supported and defined for us by short passages in the OT .. see below, particularly the parts that I put in bold).
Joshua 24
14 “Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD.
15 If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
Ezekiel 36
25 “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts are about all of this, and why you believe what you do (IOW, does God "create" His elect, or are we "discovered" by Him instead, or is there more to it than that perhaps :unsure:).

Thanks :)

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
For me, I see choose, thank you I have chosen God over me myself and I, and any other to lead thanks, but Father and Son as Won for me in my usableness to be perfect
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,276
2,555
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#22
Prodigal Son story.

Son came home and Dad ran to meet him.
 
Dec 12, 2024
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#23
The Elect of God Defined.

The Elect of God: The elect of God are those who God foreknown would, as believers without willful unbelief, ultimately choose to cooperate with His grace within the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,705
542
113
#24
Prodigal Son story.

Son came home and Dad ran to meet him.
God's mercy is real, the Son saw this and went to him, willing
Willing is key in belief for anyone to be saved by God through risen Son for them to be saved as if never sinned
Col 1:1-23
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,276
2,555
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#25
God's mercy is real, the Son saw this and went to him, willing
Willing is key in belief for anyone to be saved by God through risen Son for them to be saved as if never sinned
Col 1:1-23
However....what is stated is that the son was willing to be a servant for a change...he REPENTED of his own free will and was received as a son once again.

The Angry Son....that's the one in the story that goes misunderstood so often. He became unrepentant and unforgiven because he refused to forgive his brother and ostracized himself. He committed no specific action that is considered immorality....but he still was outside the family.
 

jacko

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2024
1,111
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#26
However....what is stated is that the son was willing to be a servant for a change...he REPENTED of his own free will and was received as a son once again.

The Angry Son....that's the one in the story that goes misunderstood so often. He became unrepentant and unforgiven because he refused to forgive his brother and ostracized himself. He committed no specific action that is considered immorality....but he still was outside the family.
does the angry son go to heaven?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,096
30,218
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#27
does the angry son go to heaven?
He reminds me of the one who says yes to his father but really doesn't, while the other says no but really does. Matthew 21

The Parable of the Two Sons
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,227
2,205
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#28
He reminds me of the one who says yes to his father but really doesn't, while the other says no but really does. Matthew 21

The Parable of the Two Sons
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’


29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
And, relative to the prodigal son "coming to himself" in realizing the goodness of his father, this generated the thought of the rich young ruler. Jesus asked him, "Why do you call Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." It seems that the young ruler believed that he had been good, but did he believe that God had been good, to him? He didn't realize that whatever goodness he had, it'd been given to him by God. Otherwise, he might have recognized the goodness of the Christ, as God with us, and would've been happy to drop everything to follow Him, expecting to continue in His goodness.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,276
2,555
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#29
does the angry son go to heaven?
He is willingly not going because that is where his brother and Father are having a party.
Unforgiveness is a poison you drink and want others to die from.

However,
Parable of the shrewd manager teaches that we all cannot forgive like God can and will....but doing as much as we can will allow us to keep our positive relationship with God intact.
 
Dec 11, 2024
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#30
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heave
Romans chapter 9, and chapter 1. Vessels for destruction are Reprobates. Psalm chapter 129 aligns with Romans chapter 9.
Psalm chapter 129
They have greatly oppressed me from my youth, let Israel say. They have greatly oppressed me from my youth, but they have not gained the victory over me.
But the Lord is righteous, he has cut the me free from the cords of the wicked. The strings of the wicked can be cut by God anytime, they are puppets. The saints, the election have the victory. The Reprobates are finished at the 7th Trump. There going with Satan into lake of fire.
129:may they be like grass on the roof, which withers before it can grow. pererverance is the key for the saints. Going through some persecution and pain from the wicked. With Jesus on our side, we can over come it. Though the pain might be intense and lomg, through our faith and trusting Jesus, we overcome. In old days, sod was used on roofs. But without Moisture, it withers away. See, there is no substance in the wicked. Deuteronomy chapter 7, wicked hate God, and will face destruction on judgement Day. Proverbs 10:12. Treasures of the wickedness profit nothing, But righteousness delivers from death. Evil deeds have no Value, its worhless. It has no substance.
Psalm 92:7
When the wicked spring up as the grass, and when all workers of inquity do flourish, it is that they shall be destroyed for ever. Reprobates won't repent and they hate the righteous and God. Wicked have no future.
Psalm chapter 69
Let them be blotted out the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. Reprobates reject Jesus, and hate God. There deeds are worthless. They are their own hang man. No tears for this group.
Ovopa in Greek means - called and chosen. Elect
Eklegomai in Greek means - election, Chosen.
Ekletos in Greek means - Divine selection.
Poopiluw in Greek means - Predestinate, ordain before hand. What they are predestined to do. Priest.
Hagios in Greek means - saints, elect.
Anosios in Greek means - wicked
Aphrosume in Greek means - fool, reckless, arrogant, wicked.
Chatta in Hebrew means - guilty, habitual simners.
Kletos in Greek means+ saint, called.
Theostuges in Greek means - hater of God.
Abedah in Hebrew means - destruction, Hades.
Achreiro in Greek means - unprofitable
Damian in Hebrew means - perish
Carah means - rebellion.
Chrisma in Hebrew means - holy Spirit.
Yesh in Hebrew means - substance.
Ashem in Hebrew means - destroy, guilty, perish.
Makobah in Hebrew means - pain, grief, affliction.
Kathairo in Greek means - demonic Spirit.
Akathartos in Greek means - unclesn Spirit. Wicked.
The concept of God election, those who will be saved is a biblical truth.
Luke chapter 10:20
Never the less, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. The Elect are predestined to kingdom of God. Psalm chapter 89. God is greatly to be revered in the assembly of the Saints, and to be reverance of all them that are about him. Psalm 149:1 . And his praise in the congregation of the saints.
149:7 . To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishment upon people. 149:9. To execute upon them the judgement written this honor have all his saint's.
When Jesus returns 7th trump. The goats and the sheep will be separated, and saints are in paradise. Many will end up in sheol. It's holding place for the wicked and spiritually dead until judgment Day. Many people will find eternal life at end of millennium. But the wicked will perish on judgement Day.
Matthew chapter 24:31
And he will send out his angels with loud trumpet call, and they will gather his Elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Luke chapter 18:7
Now, will not God bring about justice for his Elect who cry to Him Day and night, and will he delay long over them? I tell you He will bring about justice for them quickly.
God will vindicate His election, and vengeance for the wicked. Pay back is coming 7th trump.
Titus chapter 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the Faith of God's Elect.
2 Timothy chapter 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the Elect, that they may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. 1 Peter chapter 1:2
Elect, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obiedence and sprinkling of the blood Jesus Christ.
Romans chapter 8
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. The Elect have Holy Spirit. The wicked have unclean Spirit.
8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The Reprobates walk in the flesh, they are devoid of the Spirit.
8:7
Because the carnal mind is Eminity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of this. The holy Spirit can't co habit with unclean Spirit at the same time. You either have holy Spirit,or Reprobates have unclean Spirit.
The third group are the spiritually dead, they have Spirit of slumber, documentation, Romans chapter 11.
Reprobates and spiritually dead, are two different groups of people.
8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God. Election.
2 Corinthians chapter 4
But if our gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost.
4:4
In whom god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. The Reprobates have unclean Spirit and are under power of Satan. God knew His children from the first earth age. Who he can depend on, who he depend on. Remember Psalm 129. They have no substance. They can't be marred and molded into acceptable service.There dead vine with dead works. They can't make use opportunities offered to them. They reject Jesus and reject God's knowledge of truth. Basically, Reprobates can't face there Conscience. Its easier to run away from guilty conscience. There minds are corrupt. Only cowards run from themselves. Reprobates won't do honest evaluation of themselves. They hide in darkness. Lies and deception. Using churches as cover up. Fake Christian people. There own conscience is driving them to hell. The spiritually dead on judgement Day, many will find eternal life. Reprobates are different story.
Peace.
Calvin was a dumb bell 🙈🙉🙊
 

j55

Active member
Sep 29, 2024
268
103
43
#32
The Elect of God Defined.

The Elect of God: The elect of God are those who God foreknown would, as believers without willful unbelief, ultimately choose to cooperate with His grace within the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Agree. Servant ofyeshua12, Thinks sound doctrine is false. False brethren infiltrated this forum. Titus chapter 1 and 3 warn of false brethren.
 
Dec 12, 2024
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#33
The Elect of God Defined.

The elect of God are those who God foreknown would, as believers without willful unbelief, ultimately choose to cooperate with His grace within the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ and the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

The elect of God
Collossians 3:12

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God foreknown
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Believers without willful unbelief
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Romans 4:20
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Ultimately choose to cooperate with His grace
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Within the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ
Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Promptings of the Holy Spirit.
Psalms 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Ephisians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 
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#34
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
This feels pedantic. God knows, we make a decision, yeah. Outcome is the same.