I agree, you sum my thought up here best. Let this be then therefore the final word on the topic.
Are the people who drowned in the flood of Noah doomed forever?
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I agree, you sum my thought up here best. Let this be then therefore the final word on the topic.
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.Gen 6:13
But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.Gen 6:18
***
Since there is no gap of time in the conversation with God, seeing that it is written that God specifically says to Noah "and thy sons and thy wife and thy son's wife with thee";
the 120 years doesn't add up.
One can't say that God in Genesis 6 isn't the same LORD in Genesis 7:4 neither:
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
Did Jesus slaughtered all those people in a flood? or Did he save all those on the ark?
One might consider that the flood wasn't a flood of waters but a flood of violence especially
when God had already set his bow in the cloud which was His Word that the earth would not flood again anyways.
One can't say Jesus didn't warn them either since His Word is, always was, and will always be the same Word that was heard from he beginning.
7 Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers?
8 Egypt riseth up like a flood, and his waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith,
I will go up, and will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof.
Jer 46:7-8
City in the Clouds witnessed on 10.19.2015
"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. "Rev 21:2
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,..." Dan 9:24
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Physical death as a penalty for sin is a consistent theme in Scripture and isn't associated with the eternal aspect of judgment.
And that is the point I am trying to make.
Just as the sacrifice of animals did not atone or redeem eternally, even so physical death was not eternal.
So why didn't the Old Testament Saint, who died not being eternally redeemed, suffer eternal separation?
The answer is because they were recipients of God's gràce.
The Old Testament deals primarily in the physical, the New with the eternal.
And physical death is still a possibility for the sinning Christian today:
[h=1]1 Corinthians 11:26-30King James Version (KJV)[/h]
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
But his deliverance from judgment was not how he was saved. Their deaths were not how they were eternally judged. Both dealt with their physical existence.
You are equating physical with the eternal.
The only reason Noah, who was equally separated from God as those destroyed (unless you think Noah was sinless), got on the Ark...was because of God's grace.
Noah's sin had not been eternally redeemed:
[h=1]Hebrews 9:12-15King James Version (KJV)[/h]
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Noah died still under penalty of eternal death. The only atonement avàilable to him is seen here:
[h=1]Genesis 8:18-21King James Version (KJV)[/h]
18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and theLord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Noah was not eternally indwelt, that would not begin until the Comforter came.
Man's separation from God was not rememdied by the Flood. The Remedy would not come until the Cross.
Noah was saved by grace through faith, but he was not eternally redeemed. He died still needing his transgressions atoned for.
No one has eternal life except their sins be forgiven.
Where do we see Noah repenting? Or his sons?
Their deliverance was strictly by grace. Their was nothing in them that warranted their deliverance.
So babies can repent of their sin?
Babies do not sin. That's not their problem. Their problem is...they are separated from God.
Sin is a result of that separation, not the other way around. We don't become separated because we aim, we sin because we are separated. That separation is the result of the Fall.
Ànd the remedy is being Baptized into Christ. That is when man's relàtionshio is renewed with God. That is why it is called Reconciliation.
Añd there was no reconciliation until Pentecost when the Comfortable came:
[h=1]John 14:16-17King James Version (KJV)[/h]
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Christ distinguishes between the Spirit's ministry in that day and the one He will perform when The Lord returns to Heaven.
God only intended to destroy evil. A man who was not evil and was righteous before God (saved) would not have been destroyed by the flood.
God did not destory evil with the Flood. He imposed physical death for their sins.
God bless.
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Perhaps you could point out exactly what you refer to?
What in the post is unbiblical?
Relevance to what I said?
I wish you luçk in that endeavor, bit for the time how about supporting you charges with a quote of what you feel to be error?
You trespass into false witness until you do.
How have I done this?
Please point out in my quote what you feel is satanic.
God bless.
You supply an opinion that has no biblical support and in so doing create doubt. This is exactly what the serpent did in the garden.
You simply imply that God could or did not do what He did and that God had no right to do so. You have declared your moral judgments to be superior to those of God. You deny God His sovereignty.
In the presence of truth luck is not required.
Just wind but you could be careful about accusing the brethren.
Not certain you are able to comprehend the answer. Those things which seem impossible to man are possible to God. Simple matters to God are far past man's understanding. Instead of attempting to make excuses or question what God did or did not do why not allow God to do what His perfect righteousness and sovereign will demand.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Still no quote to support your charges. Quote what I said you refer to.
Until you do you are simply slandering without basis. That has no Biblical support.
God bless.
From post#84 "Babies do not sin. That's not their problem. Their problem is...they are separated from God." Nobody has to sin, we are born with the original sin. The salvation of babies and little children is assured, or not, by our creator, who knew who would be faithful before the world was formed. In knowing this, He could have easily made sure that the ones that were unable to make a salvation decision would have been born with a mindset that would have allowed them to be saved, had they been born in a later time. This time period had angels from heaven telling people lies which would have been hard for people not to believe, with only Noah and his family debunking them. Knowing that His son was coming later allowed for the salvation of those physically destroyed, but worthy of salvation.
Just as I suspected you are above correction and instruction. You are here to stir up strife and dissention then go off to another site and start over again.
You create doubt and distain edification and discipleship.
You do understand that God is sovereign don't you?
God have mercy.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Tintin
Guest
I never realised it took Noah only seven days to build the ark...
Haha! It didn't. Noah and his sons (and probably their wives) had around 70 years to build the Ark (because Shem, Ham and Japheth were all approximately 100 years old when the Flood arrived, and they were married by the time they started building it). That doesn't mean it took all of that time, but that's how much time they were given. The seven days prior to the Flood beginning, were used for loading everything onto the Ark. It would have been a huge job, yes, but manageable.
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Tintin
Guest
How long did it take Noah and his family to build the Ark?
God told Noah to build an Ark and load onto it himself, his wife, his sons and their wives and 7 (pairs?) of every clean animal kind and 2 of every unclean animal kind (Noah was given 120 years warning that there would be a global Flood). Japheth was the eldest (he was born to Noah when he was 500 years old). Noah had Shem 2 years later and then Ham several years beyond. Noah's three sons all had wives prior to the Ark beginning construction, so they would have had to be old enough to be married (let's say somewhere between 20 and 40 years old). This leaves us with around 55 to 75 years for Noah and his family to build the Ark. It could have been less time. It really depends on the ages Shem, Ham and Japheth were all married.
God told Noah to build an Ark and load onto it himself, his wife, his sons and their wives and 7 (pairs?) of every clean animal kind and 2 of every unclean animal kind (Noah was given 120 years warning that there would be a global Flood). Japheth was the eldest (he was born to Noah when he was 500 years old). Noah had Shem 2 years later and then Ham several years beyond. Noah's three sons all had wives prior to the Ark beginning construction, so they would have had to be old enough to be married (let's say somewhere between 20 and 40 years old). This leaves us with around 55 to 75 years for Noah and his family to build the Ark. It could have been less time. It really depends on the ages Shem, Ham and Japheth were all married.
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Hello Tintin,
I was just scanning through and I saw your post and couldn't help myself and so for the sake of correctness: Noah began building the Ark when he was 500 years old and completed it after turning 600, which is also when Methuselah died and when the flood took place(Gen.7:6,11). Scripture states that Shem was 100 years old two years after the flood, which would mean that he was born when Noah was 502 years old (Gen.11:10).
Noah at 500: Building of the Ark begins
Noah at 502: Begets Shem
Noah at 600: Ark is completed and flood begins
Shem at 100 (two years after the flood): Begets Arphaxad
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Tintin
Guest
But the Bible doesn't actually infer that Noah began construction of the Ark at 500 years old. Otherwise, good information. Cheers.
You are correct so allow me to rephrase: he builds the Ark sometime within his being 500 and 600 years old.
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Tintin
Guest
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Not at all, but if you are going to accuse me of being satanic...then you had better be able to back that up.
And so far all you have done is accuse.
Here is the post you responded to:
Here is your response:
Nothing in your statement can be justified, and now three times you refuse to justify your statement...and you call me satanic?
On the contrary, I am here to stir up discussion.
And then go on to another forum.
I view this as better than roosting in one spot, because it keeps me from getting comfortable and allows me to meet more people. And in doing this I have grown as a believer.
More false witness.
Give me examples.
You apparently think bearing false witness is okay, so could you show me where you find in Scripture that we are to accuse people and then refuse to support that?
That violates both Old and New Testament teachings.
And if anything I have said has created doubt, you would do well to address those issues, and do it with Biblical support.
Better than you, apparently. Apparently you feel that your own behavior need not fall into obedience to the Word of God.
Deuteronomy 19:15
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
He will.
False witness is not for the cause of Christ, Roger, it is childish.
You have been asked several times to show what it is in the post you object to which has brought you to charge me with satanic motivation.
So address the post, and address the points you object to.
God bless.
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Here is the Biblical Support:
Yet you say I offered none.
Please address the point which you feel is satanic.
God bless.