Are the Ten Commandments included in the abolished Law?

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B

bornagain3

Guest
#1
Are the Ten Commandments included in the abolished Law?


There are many folk, including those who promote the Saturday Sabbath and the keeping thereof, that still resolutely claim that the Ten Commandments, because they were written on stone, are not part of the Law of Moses, or at very least they are a separate part of it that is not referred to when the Bible tells us that the Law has been abolished. However, in Romans 13 God clearly shows us that in fact the Ten Commandments are considered by Him as part of the Law. The ramifications of keeping the Law and adhering to it are far-reaching and frightening and this is resolutely ignored by all the Sabbatarians who stand by the keeping of the Saturday Sabbath in the firm belief that the Ten Commandments are not part of the abolished Law of Moses. Like good Bereans, we need to look and see what the Word has to say on this subject.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Here is a very clear explanation by Jesus Himself, explaining that nothing of the Law would pass away until it all was fulfilled. So the question to be asked then in line with this statement is whether there is a time coming when all will be fulfilled? Jesus in fact gave us the manner in which this would be achieved in John 13:34, but it was through Paul’s ministry that it became clear that this was how the Law was to be fulfilled.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Now we need to dispel the myth of the Sabbatarians and other proponents of the Saturday Sabbath who cling to the belief that the Ten Commandments are not part of the overall Law of Moses.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

In Romans 13:8 God teaches us that loving one another is the fulfilling of the Law and in John 13:34 Jesus confirmed for us with His new commandment, the how to fulfil the Law. In Romans 13:9 God gives us confirmation that the Ten Commandments are included in the Law:

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In this all-encompassing inclusion of the Ten Commandments where 5 of the 10 are named and the rest are included in the words, “and if there be any other commandment”, it is plainly obvious to anyone that the Ten Commandments are part of the overall Law of Moses because they too are fulfilled by loving your neighbour as yourself.

However there is an even clearer teaching and confirmation that the Ten Commandments are included in the Law of Moses and have been abolished and this is to be found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-17. In this chapter God takes the time to explain how the letter of the Law brings death and how the Spirit of grace and righteousness brings life. So the Law represents death and the Spirit, God’s grace.

2 Corinthians 3:6-17 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

In verse 6 we find Paul using metaphorical speech where he speaks about the letter and the spirit, where the letter represents the letter of the Law and the spirit, the Spirit of God’s grace. Paul states that the Law kills and the Spirit, or grace, brings life.

Then to clear up any doubts that Paul is speaking of the Ten Commandments, in verse 7 he describes how the ministration of death (which is a metaphor for the Law of Moses), was written and engraved in stone and was glorious and how that glory was to be done away with! Now in the Word of God there is only one thing that was ever written and engraved in stone and that was the Ten Commandments. In verses 8 and 9 Paul goes on to say that the ministration of the Spirit of grace and righteousness would be even more glorious than that of the Law.

In verse 10 we are told that even though the Law was glorious, its glory paled into insignificance in comparison with the glory of the Spirit of grace and righteousness and then the crunch comes in verse 11 where Paul says if that which was done away with was glorious, how much greater was the glory of that which would remain. So there have been a number of times already where Paul has confirmed that the Law, which we have seen includes the Ten Commandments, was to be done away with in favour of God’s grace.

In verses 13 and 14 we have further confirmation that the Law would be abolished and done away with and he says that Israel (the Jews of Jesus’ day) could not see that a time would come when the Law would be abolished because their minds were blinded to the grace of God. Paul then uses the veil that Moses used to cover his face because the glory of the Lord upon it was too bright for the people to look on, as a metaphor for that which was blinding their spiritual eyes from seeing the truth about the Law. Nevertheless he says, the day would come when they would accept Christ and the veil over their spirits would be lifted so they could see the truth.

And the truth is this: The spirit spoken of in verse 6 is identified in verse 17 as being the Lord, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty!

There is one final part of the myth that needs dispelling and it is contained in a verse that the Sabbatarians love to quote as a kind of quid pro quo. However it is so plainly evident that they are misled and in error in their understanding of the verse and that with a little more objective study they would have been able to perceive the truth and not be misled through their own blindness.

Revelation 22:14 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

God is saying in this verse that those who do His commandments are the ones who will earn the right to eat of the tree of life and live in the New Jerusalem. This is very similar in essence to the admonition found in James 1:22 where we are commanded to be doers of the Word and not hearers only, deceiving ourselves. Yes but what about doing His commandments? As we have seen in our discussion above that the Law of Moses, including the Ten Commandments, has been abolished and done away with, we need to ask ourselves objectively whether this verse can be referring to that which God has taught us is already abolished, or are there other commandments being referred to here? Well with a bit of research it can be established that there are approximately 1 050 commands in the New Testament that Christians are expected to obey as doers of the Word. Due to repetitions, these commands can be reduced to roughly about 800 headings and they cover every facet of Man’s life and his relationship to God and his fellowmen. If obeyed these commands will bring rich rewards in this Earthly life, as well as eternally hereafter, but if disobeyed and ignored that will result in eternal punishment. These commands are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments or any of the rest of the Law of Moses, which has been abolished and done away with. They are so numerous it is not possible for them to be listed here, but as doers of God’s Word, we are mostly automatically living by and keeping these commandments.

In the opening paragraph I mentioned that the ramifications of keeping the Law and relying upon it for salvation are huge and even frightening! God tells us in Galatians 5:3+4 that if we keep even one of the laws in the Law of Moses, as a doctrine, we are bound to keep them all! By keeping them we have then made Christ of no effect and we have fallen from grace!

Galatians 5:3+4 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

In the previous 2 chapters of Galatians, Paul had been discussing those who were advocating not only the circumcision of the Gentile men who came to repentance and salvation in Christ, but also the need for all who followed Christ to keep the Law. This was a false doctrine that had crept into the Church and even Peter and some of the other disciples adhered to it for a time. Paul’s use of the word circumcised in verse 3 above, is used as a type of the whole Law and not just circumcision and this is confirmed in verse 4 because he says that whoever relies on the Law for justification has fallen from grace and that Christ has become of no effect for them. It now makes sense why Paul says in verse 3 at the end, that if a man was to be circumcised or keep any one of the myriad laws in the Law of Moses, that he then was indebted to keep the entire Law.

The point that I am making with all of this is that we cannot allow ourselves to be led astray with false teaching that is not based on Scripture. It has been clearly shown from God’s Word that the Ten Commandments are part of the Law and have therefore also been abolished, although 9 of them have been included into the New Testament in various books. It is significant that the only one of the Ten Commandments not included in the New Testament is the fourth commandment, to keep the Sabbath day holy and so even the more tragic that the Sabbatarians cling to their belief that it is a must to worship on Saturdays. But compounding this tragedy is that these folk cannot see in Galatians that God is speaking to them and warning them that they have fallen from grace. In Galatians 3:1 God says that folk who cling to the Law have been bewitched!

In conclusion, we have shown from Scripture that the Ten Commandments are definitely part of the Law of Moses and therefore also part that which has been abolished. To those who cling to the false teaching that the compulsory day for the Church to worship God on is Saturday, we ask for God’s grace to forgive them and to have their spiritual eyes, which have been blinded, opened to see the glory of Christ and His grace and righteousness. Furthermore, may they be set free by the Spirit of the Lord wherein there is liberty!

Andre de Kock
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
63
#2
Matthew 5

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
[SUP]45 [/SUP]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 22

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If Heavenly Father declares those that Love Him Keep His Commandments, then so be it.
 
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bornagain3

Guest
#3
Hi Loveme1! :)

So do you believe that the Law and all its commandments has not been abolished, is that what you are saying? Did you read the piece I posted, or did you just reply to the topic? It is ironic that the bit you highlighted from Matthew 5 actually doesn't specifically speak of the Ten Commandments, but is actually speaking of the Law in general. And then in v17 Jesus said that He was not come to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill them. And then in v18 Jesus says that nothing of the Law will change in any way until it is fulfilled!

So in fact Jesus was saying that there would be a time that the Law would be fulfilled and therefore it would become kind of redundant and pass away. Jesus' own sacrifice brought that about, but as we live in righteousness and agape with each other we too are fulfilling the Law. But in the piece I wrote all the evidence that the Law has been abolished is clearly laid out. Have a read.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
63
#4
Hi Loveme1! :)

So do you believe that the Law and all its commandments has not been abolished, is that what you are saying? Did you read the piece I posted, or did you just reply to the topic? It is ironic that the bit you highlighted from Matthew 5 actually doesn't specifically speak of the Ten Commandments, but is actually speaking of the Law in general. And then in v17 Jesus said that He was not come to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill them. And then in v18 Jesus says that nothing of the Law will change in any way until it is fulfilled!

So in fact Jesus was saying that there would be a time that the Law would be fulfilled and therefore it would become kind of redundant and pass away. Jesus' own sacrifice brought that about, but as we live in righteousness and agape with each other we too are fulfilling the Law. But in the piece I wrote all the evidence that the Law has been abolished is clearly laid out. Have a read.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
The saints Keep the Commandments of God and Have Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.

You are teaching disobedience and you have no 'evidence' because the Messiah Himself said we should Keep and Teach even the least of the Commandments.

I don't believe you over the words of the Messiah, for it is He that brings us Truth and Grace not you.
 
M

mudgeon

Guest
#5
The saints Keep the Commandments of God and Have Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.

You are teaching disobedience and you have no 'evidence' because the Messiah Himself said we should Keep and Teach even the least of the Commandments.

I don't believe you over the words of the Messiah, for it is He that brings us Truth and Grace not you.
To those who claim, from a muddled understanding of passages from scripture, that the Law is done away with, I ask a single question: say while you were alive you freely committed some so-called 'venial' sins, and gave them little thought because, well, they were venial. Then you die and meet God somewhere up there, and He asks you for an account of your earthly life. Will you even muster the courage to tell him of those peccadillos of yours? If not, then it means the Law is still in effect and has to be followed to the letter by anyone aspiring to gain entry into heaven.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
63
#6
Many will accept that the second law of Love which is to :
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
is fulfilling part of the 10 Commandments, but then fail to recall the Messiah said the great Law was to:
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
which forms part of the 10 Commandments, including the Sabbath day rest.

Love fulfills the Law because love does that which is pleasing to Heavenly Father.

The 10 commandments are the tenor.

For example: it is not written that we should give the coat off of our back to those in need within the 10 Commandments, but when one loves their neighbor they will do this without it being written specifically within the 10 Commandments.
 
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bornagain3

Guest
#7
Hi again,

Did you read the piece I wrote? It has ALL the Scriptural evidence to back up the fact that the Law, including the 10 Commandments has been abolished. Did you read Matt 5:18, which you actually posted and have you ever asked yourself what Jesus meant by that? Did you ever read Paul's letters and find in Romans 13:8 what the fulfilling of the Law is that Jesus spoke of in Matt 5:18?

But I won't argue with you any further. 2 Cor 3:15 says it all about people with a blind faith that will not seek answers in the Word. God bless you.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
 
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bornagain3

Guest
#8
Hi Mudgeon :)

Unfortunately you have never studied the letter to the Galatians in which you will find that if rely on the Law for your salvation you have fallen from grace and salvation will not be yours. I think the muddled understanding is yours and just studying Romans 13, 2 Cor 3 and Gal 3, 4+5 you will find categorically that the Law has been abolished and replaced by grace and that we as sons of God must be doers of God's Word (James 1:22), which will automatically include keeping the approximately 1050 commands found in the New Testament.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
 
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bornagain3

Guest
#9
Hi again,

You are actually saying the same thing as I have written, except that you stick your head in the sand about the Law. Jesus gave only one new commandment: that we should love one another as He loved us. Then Paul told us in Romans 13:8 that by loving another we fulfill the Law. So the truth of the matter is this: IF we walk in love one to another, we will fulfill every one of the 10 Commandments and that is why they have been abolished along with the rest of the Law as they are redundant if you are fulfilling the Law under grace.

However, we digress from the topic of whether the Ten Commandments are included in the abolished Law? Very clearly in many Scriptures I posted they are. Being a manifest son of God is another topic altogether and that is the how to love others so that we fulfill the Law.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
 
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bornagain3

Guest
#10
Hi Again,

You see you make a mistake with your lack of knowledge and the command that Jesus said was the great command is not from the 10 Commandments, which you will find in Ex 20:1-17 and the command to love the Lord our God with all our heart etc is found in Deut 6:5.

Now here's the thing, the commands that God wanted us to keep were all repeated in the New Testament and 9 of the 10 Commandments were repeated in various books in the New Testament. The only one that was not repeated was the 4th commandment, the one to keep the Sabbath. The command to love the Lord our God is also repeated in Matthew, Mark and Luke and if you had read my teaching you would have found out that there are 1050 commands in the New Testament that we are to keep. Because of duplication these commands can be tapered down to about 800 that we are to keep and as doers of the Word we do this automatically.

But coming back to the topic ..... are the Ten Commandments included in the abolished Law? According to Scripture as I have laid it out in the teaching, MOST DECIDEDLY YES!

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
 
M

mudgeon

Guest
#11
Hi Mudgeon :)

Unfortunately you have never studied the letter to the Galatians in which you will find that if rely on the Law for your salvation you have fallen from grace and salvation will not be yours. I think the muddled understanding is yours and just studying Romans 13, 2 Cor 3 and Gal 3, 4+5 you will find categorically that the Law has been abolished and replaced by grace and that we as sons of God must be doers of God's Word (James 1:22), which will automatically include keeping the approximately 1050 commands found in the New Testament.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
If I were you I'd take whatever Paul says with a grain of salt, as he was not personally trained by Our Lord to go out unto the nations to bring the Gospel to them. Now, you cannot rely on the Law for your salvation, obviously, as the boss in Heaven is God, and not the Law. You have to look to Him for forgiveness of your sins and have faith in His Lordship and all that, but you also must perfectly keep His commandments, as ugliness has no place in Heaven. I think it's this simple.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#12
Jesus updated the Ten Commandments, here they are:-

The Golden Rule
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

The other commandments of Jesus
1. "Forgive everybody of all their offences against you."
2. "You must be born again."
3. "Abide in me, and let me abide in you."
4. "Let people see your good works." (do not hide your light under a basket.)
5. "End disputes quickly."
6. "Whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it."
7. "Do not swear oaths at all."
8. "Do not return offence for offence." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "Give what people ask of you, and give more than is required." (Go the extra mile.)
10. "Love your enemies and those who work against you."
11. "Give to the poor to please god, not to gain approval from other people."
12. "Pray privately and simply, not to impress other people."
13. "Make your prayers be like the Lord’s Prayer."
14. "When you fast, do it secretly, not for show."
15. "Store up your treasures in heaven, not on earth."
16. "Do not worry about your material needs."
17. "Do not worry about the future."
18. "Make god your highest priority, and he will take care of all your needs."
19. "Do not judge other people." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "Do not give holy things to dogs or cast your pearls before swine."
21. "Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort those in distress."
22. "Follow the narrow path to life." (enter by the narrow gate.)
23. "Beware of false prophets."
24. "Exercise power over unclean spirits."
25. "Love little children, do not despise them."
26. "Do not take the titles 'master' or 'father' for yourself."
27. "Resolve disputes in an orderly way, like this . . . "
28. "Do not oppose other believers in Christ who are not in your group."
29. "Have total faith in god for everything."
30. "Be like the good Samaritan." (go, and do likewise.)
31. "Love other people as i have loved you"
32. "Eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of me."
33. "Wash one another's feet."
34. "Be merciful."
35. "Go and teach all nations, baptising them."
36. "Keep my commandments."
37. "Be prepared for your master to return."
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#13
wow.. i'm speechless....the difference between teaching people about the SPIRIT of the Law verses the Letter of the law is that you tell them WHY God wanted us to do the things in the OT. Its no longer just ritual or outward forms of worship but a heart that does things out of LOVE for God and for your neighbors.

2 Corinthians 3:6-17 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
We can establish from these scriptures that the "ministration of death" in verse 7 and the "ministration of condemnation" talk about the law of Moses which includes the Ten commandments which were written on Stone Tablets by God's own hand.

However, I think it is important to establish what the "ministration of righteousness" is. It is looking at the OT without the veil and seeing how it points to Jesus Christ and the NEW Covenant. the New Covenant that requires its people to be born Again and be lead by the HOLY SPIRIT and not prophets who alone speak to God for the people. It tells of how JESUS the Mediator. The ministration of righteousness teaches the great commandment which is to LOVE GOD with all your heart, spirit, soul and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you do these things through the leading of the Holy Spirit you fulfill all the laws of the prophets before. You don't steal, murder, commit adultery because to do so would NOT be love. You don't worship idols and you honor God.


The NEW Covenant is different than the one made on Mount Sinai.

what i find sad is people don't admit that

Galatians 4
For these are the[SUP][d][/SUP] two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
is talking about the ten commandments and the old covenant made.

However even in Moses time God told them He would make a NEW covenant with people who had His laws written upon not upon tablets of stone but living HEARTS of a holy people set apart.

Exodus 19
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the Lord will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. [SUP]12 [/SUP]You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, ‘Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.’ When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain.”
Exodus 20
20 And God spoke all these words, saying:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [SUP]5 [/SUP]you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, [SUP]6 [/SUP]but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Six days you shall labor and do all your work, [SUP]10 [/SUP]but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You shall not murder.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“You shall not commit adultery.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“You shall not steal.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”
Jeremiah 31

[h=3][/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— [SUP]32 [/SUP]not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[SUP][a][/SUP] says the Lord. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]34 [/SUP]No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

2 Corinthians 3:2-4

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; [SUP]3 [/SUP]clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

It should be established that the Old covenant has become obsolete and is now fading but I would spend more time talking about what is the laws God has written in our hearts.

What has the Holy Spirit taught us?

what should we share with the world?
 
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L

Laodicea

Guest
#15
Hi Loveme1! :)

So do you believe that the Law and all its commandments has not been abolished, is that what you are saying? Did you read the piece I posted, or did you just reply to the topic? It is ironic that the bit you highlighted from Matthew 5 actually doesn't specifically speak of the Ten Commandments, but is actually speaking of the Law in general. And then in v17 Jesus said that He was not come to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill them. And then in v18 Jesus says that nothing of the Law will change in any way until it is fulfilled!

So in fact Jesus was saying that there would be a time that the Law would be fulfilled and therefore it would become kind of redundant and pass away. Jesus' own sacrifice brought that about, but as we live in righteousness and agape with each other we too are fulfilling the Law. But in the piece I wrote all the evidence that the Law has been abolished is clearly laid out. Have a read.

Kind regards,

Andre de Kock
Matthew 5:17-18
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The term in 5:18 'till all be fulfilled' is not referring to the law being fulfilled but, time. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law but to keep the law. That means everything Jesus said and did was in accordance with the law. If Jesus is saying that the law would be ended after He fulfilled it then He contradicted Himself because He did come to destroy the law.

Verse 18 begins by speaking about heaven and earth passing, this is the context of this verse, so with that context 'till all be fulfilled' is talking about time. Jesus in verse 18 is giving further confirmation to what He said in verse 17 that He did not come to destroy the law.

If you still want to think it is referring to Jesus fulfilling the law then the feast of Pentecost which was part of the law was not fulfilled till after Jesus went to heaven, the same goes with the other feasts. So Pentecost was not done away with by the death of Christ. We do not sacrifice anymore because Jesus is our sacrifice. In the OT they had to come to the priest with a lamb when they sinned, now we come to Christ our high priest and Jesus is the lamb.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
113
#16
We died to the law Rom7:4
Coveteousness is part of the 10 commandments that we died to. Rom 7:7-8

As belevers the law of the Spirit is written on our hearts (God's nature via the new birth) Rom 8:4, Jer 31:33
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#17
Hi Loveme1! :)

So do you believe that the Law and all its commandments has not been abolished, is that what you are saying? Did you read the piece I posted, or did you just reply to the topic? It is ironic that the bit you highlighted from Matthew 5 actually doesn't specifically speak of the Ten Commandments, but is actually speaking of the Law in general. And then in v17 Jesus said that He was not come to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill them. And then in v18 Jesus says that nothing of the Law will change in any way until it is fulfilled!

So in fact Jesus was saying that there would be a time that the Law would be fulfilled and therefore it would become kind of redundant and pass away. Jesus' own sacrifice brought that about, but as we live in righteousness and agape with each other we too are fulfilling the Law. But in the piece I wrote all the evidence that the Law has been abolished is clearly laid out. Have a read.

Kind regards,
Andre de Kock
You are putting words in God's mouth that shouldn't be put there. When God fulfilled it does not mean delete. What is abolished is death by the law, it is abolished by forgiveness, forgiveness through grace. The law expresses God's love for us, God's protection. To say it is the love through law that is abolished is a wicked thing to say.
 
Apr 9, 2013
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#18
Rev. 22:14 Blessed are those who do His COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

WOW, this speaks great knowledge. SO those who keep YHVH's commandments will have the right to the tree of life, and enter the gates into the city.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#19
Are the Ten Commandments included in the abolished Law?


There are many folk, including those who promote the Saturday Sabbath and the keeping thereof, that still resolutely claim that the Ten Commandments, because they were written on stone, are not part of the Law of Moses, or at very least they are a separate part of it that is not referred to when the Bible tells us that the Law has been abolished. However, in Romans 13 God clearly shows us that in fact the Ten Commandments are considered by Him as part of the Law. The ramifications of keeping the Law and adhering to it are far-reaching and frightening and this is resolutely ignored by all the Sabbatarians who stand by the keeping of the Saturday Sabbath in the firm belief that the Ten Commandments are not part of the abolished Law of Moses. Like good Bereans, we need to look and see what the Word has to say on this subject.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Here is a very clear explanation by Jesus Himself, explaining that nothing of the Law would pass away until it all was fulfilled. So the question to be asked then in line with this statement is whether there is a time coming when all will be fulfilled? Jesus in fact gave us the manner in which this would be achieved in John 13:34, but it was through Paul’s ministry that it became clear that this was how the Law was to be fulfilled.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Now we need to dispel the myth of the Sabbatarians and other proponents of the Saturday Sabbath who cling to the belief that the Ten Commandments are not part of the overall Law of Moses.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

In Romans 13:8 God teaches us that loving one another is the fulfilling of the Law and in John 13:34 Jesus confirmed for us with His new commandment, the how to fulfil the Law. In Romans 13:9 God gives us confirmation that the Ten Commandments are included in the Law:

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In this all-encompassing inclusion of the Ten Commandments where 5 of the 10 are named and the rest are included in the words, “and if there be any other commandment”, it is plainly obvious to anyone that the Ten Commandments are part of the overall Law of Moses because they too are fulfilled by loving your neighbour as yourself.

However there is an even clearer teaching and confirmation that the Ten Commandments are included in the Law of Moses and have been abolished and this is to be found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-17. In this chapter God takes the time to explain how the letter of the Law brings death and how the Spirit of grace and righteousness brings life. So the Law represents death and the Spirit, God’s grace.

2 Corinthians 3:6-17 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

In verse 6 we find Paul using metaphorical speech where he speaks about the letter and the spirit, where the letter represents the letter of the Law and the spirit, the Spirit of God’s grace. Paul states that the Law kills and the Spirit, or grace, brings life.

Then to clear up any doubts that Paul is speaking of the Ten Commandments, in verse 7 he describes how the ministration of death (which is a metaphor for the Law of Moses), was written and engraved in stone and was glorious and how that glory was to be done away with! Now in the Word of God there is only one thing that was ever written and engraved in stone and that was the Ten Commandments. In verses 8 and 9 Paul goes on to say that the ministration of the Spirit of grace and righteousness would be even more glorious than that of the Law.

In verse 10 we are told that even though the Law was glorious, its glory paled into insignificance in comparison with the glory of the Spirit of grace and righteousness and then the crunch comes in verse 11 where Paul says if that which was done away with was glorious, how much greater was the glory of that which would remain. So there have been a number of times already where Paul has confirmed that the Law, which we have seen includes the Ten Commandments, was to be done away with in favour of God’s grace.

In verses 13 and 14 we have further confirmation that the Law would be abolished and done away with and he says that Israel (the Jews of Jesus’ day) could not see that a time would come when the Law would be abolished because their minds were blinded to the grace of God. Paul then uses the veil that Moses used to cover his face because the glory of the Lord upon it was too bright for the people to look on, as a metaphor for that which was blinding their spiritual eyes from seeing the truth about the Law. Nevertheless he says, the day would come when they would accept Christ and the veil over their spirits would be lifted so they could see the truth.

And the truth is this: The spirit spoken of in verse 6 is identified in verse 17 as being the Lord, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty!

There is one final part of the myth that needs dispelling and it is contained in a verse that the Sabbatarians love to quote as a kind of quid pro quo. However it is so plainly evident that they are misled and in error in their understanding of the verse and that with a little more objective study they would have been able to perceive the truth and not be misled through their own blindness.

Revelation 22:14 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

God is saying in this verse that those who do His commandments are the ones who will earn the right to eat of the tree of life and live in the New Jerusalem. This is very similar in essence to the admonition found in James 1:22 where we are commanded to be doers of the Word and not hearers only, deceiving ourselves. Yes but what about doing His commandments? As we have seen in our discussion above that the Law of Moses, including the Ten Commandments, has been abolished and done away with, we need to ask ourselves objectively whether this verse can be referring to that which God has taught us is already abolished, or are there other commandments being referred to here? Well with a bit of research it can be established that there are approximately 1 050 commands in the New Testament that Christians are expected to obey as doers of the Word. Due to repetitions, these commands can be reduced to roughly about 800 headings and they cover every facet of Man’s life and his relationship to God and his fellowmen. If obeyed these commands will bring rich rewards in this Earthly life, as well as eternally hereafter, but if disobeyed and ignored that will result in eternal punishment. These commands are not to be confused with the Ten Commandments or any of the rest of the Law of Moses, which has been abolished and done away with. They are so numerous it is not possible for them to be listed here, but as doers of God’s Word, we are mostly automatically living by and keeping these commandments.

In the opening paragraph I mentioned that the ramifications of keeping the Law and relying upon it for salvation are huge and even frightening! God tells us in Galatians 5:3+4 that if we keep even one of the laws in the Law of Moses, as a doctrine, we are bound to keep them all! By keeping them we have then made Christ of no effect and we have fallen from grace!

Galatians 5:3+4 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

In the previous 2 chapters of Galatians, Paul had been discussing those who were advocating not only the circumcision of the Gentile men who came to repentance and salvation in Christ, but also the need for all who followed Christ to keep the Law. This was a false doctrine that had crept into the Church and even Peter and some of the other disciples adhered to it for a time. Paul’s use of the word circumcised in verse 3 above, is used as a type of the whole Law and not just circumcision and this is confirmed in verse 4 because he says that whoever relies on the Law for justification has fallen from grace and that Christ has become of no effect for them. It now makes sense why Paul says in verse 3 at the end, that if a man was to be circumcised or keep any one of the myriad laws in the Law of Moses, that he then was indebted to keep the entire Law.

The point that I am making with all of this is that we cannot allow ourselves to be led astray with false teaching that is not based on Scripture. It has been clearly shown from God’s Word that the Ten Commandments are part of the Law and have therefore also been abolished, although 9 of them have been included into the New Testament in various books. It is significant that the only one of the Ten Commandments not included in the New Testament is the fourth commandment, to keep the Sabbath day holy and so even the more tragic that the Sabbatarians cling to their belief that it is a must to worship on Saturdays. But compounding this tragedy is that these folk cannot see in Galatians that God is speaking to them and warning them that they have fallen from grace. In Galatians 3:1 God says that folk who cling to the Law have been bewitched!

In conclusion, we have shown from Scripture that the Ten Commandments are definitely part of the Law of Moses and therefore also part that which has been abolished. To those who cling to the false teaching that the compulsory day for the Church to worship God on is Saturday, we ask for God’s grace to forgive them and to have their spiritual eyes, which have been blinded, opened to see the glory of Christ and His grace and righteousness. Furthermore, may they be set free by the Spirit of the Lord wherein there is liberty!

Andre de Kock
The biggest problem with this is that your view of us is faulty.

We do not teach or believe that we or any one else can be saved by keeping the Sabbath or any other commandment. This is impossible for us to do, That is why Jesus died for us, because we could not save ourselves.

We acknowledge that once we come to Christ the law on stone is done away with. It is no longer needed because we have Christ. IT was given to lead us to our need of a savior which we find in Jesus.

You have misunderstood why we preach the law, The law points out sin and condemns those who break it. thus we mention and preach the law to show sin. IF you are a breaker of any part of the law then you are a transgressor and in need of a Savior. We preach the law in order to lead people to a saving relationship in Christ.

You say you don't need the law because you are free in Jesus, In Him you have rest. Then how come the law still condemns you as a breaker of the law?

If we are truly grafted into Christ the true vine then will we not bare fruit unto righteousness? is not the law righteousness? yes according to the scripture the law is righteousness. Haw can you be free from sin yet still be in sin?

We preach the law because it shows that many are not truly in Christ. behold all things are made new in Christ. yet so many who claim this are still filled with the leaven of sin.

Jesus came to free us, If we are free from sin and the power of the Devil then we will no longer show fruit of disobedience. why? Because Jesus lives in us and it is His obedience not mine.

You acknowledge that the law points out sin. yet when the law is presented does it not still show that you are in disobedience to it. Then how are you free in Jesus.

I tell you the truth, there is much peace and freedom in Christ. He obeys through us and the law is fulfilled in us, as it is written. It is no longer I that lives but Christ who lives in me. Praise God.

Jesus only removed the law for those who accept Him in their life by faith. Faith is dead without works. So why does the law still show that many who profess to be in Christ are still enslaved to sin?

The law says do not steal. Do you steal? and if while a slave to sin you stole do you still steal after receiving freedom in Jesus? IF so then the law shows that our fruit is not of Christ and that we are still slaves to Satan.

Jesus said. If you sin which is breaking the law of God, then you are a slave to sin and the slave does not enter into the kingdom. but if the son shall make you free then you shall be free indeed.

The law leads us to Christ who makes us free. We preach the law so that when people see that they are still breaking it they may realize that they need Jesus to save them. Does the law show you as free in Christ or still a slave to sin?
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,555
3,192
113
#20
Matthew 5:17-18
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The term in 5:18 'till all be fulfilled' is not referring to the law being fulfilled but, time. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law but to keep the law. That means everything Jesus said and did was in accordance with the law. If Jesus is saying that the law would be ended after He fulfilled it then He contradicted Himself because He did come to destroy the law.

Verse 18 begins by speaking about heaven and earth passing, this is the context of this verse, so with that context 'till all be fulfilled' is talking about time. Jesus in verse 18 is giving further confirmation to what He said in verse 17 that He did not come to destroy the law.

If you still want to think it is referring to Jesus fulfilling the law then the feast of Pentecost which was part of the law was not fulfilled till after Jesus went to heaven, the same goes with the other feasts. So Pentecost was not done away with by the death of Christ. We do not sacrifice anymore because Jesus is our sacrifice. In the OT they had to come to the priest with a lamb when they sinned, now we come to Christ our high priest and Jesus is the lamb.
The term in 5:18 'till all be fulfilled' is referring to the Law and time. The Lord Jesus has fulfilled all the Law and the prophets. But not all the people who will come to the faith in the Lord Jesus having already fulfilled the law, have come to this faith. Therefore, not one jot or one tittle shall pass from it until all that are meant to come to Christ.

Galatians 3:17-26
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21[/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24[/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25[/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law until everyone who is intended by God comes to the knowledge of Christ.