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CDavid
Guest
No, your private interpretations are not satisfactory.Romans 13:8 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for [SUB]g[/SUB] he who loves another has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9[/SUP] For the commandments, [SUB]h[/SUB] "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," [SUB]2[/SUB] "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," [SUB]3[/SUB] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, [SUB]i[/SUB] "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." [SUB]4[/SUB] [SUP]10[/SUP] Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore [SUB]j[/SUB] love is the fulfillment of the law.
Loving one another satisfies commandments 5-10. It is impossible to violate 5-10, and do so out of love for others.
But Jesus said the most important command is to love God. It is impossible to violate any of the first four commands, and do so out of love for God.
How could anyone, knowing that God set aside the Sabbath at creation, sanctified it, and made it holy unto Himself, and knowing that God COMMANDS us to keep it holy, thumb their nose at the Almighty, and do their own thing on the Sabbath, and say they are doing so out of love for God.
That is like the man who will slit your throat, sleep with your wife, steal your car, then say; "I did it all out of love."
The ten Commandments are just and true. They are Holy given by a thrice Holy God. My question is this, can they save you. Can you place your faith in them and be found righteous by God. Can you keep them. No one is good no not one. I realised that my fleshy works are not accepted by God. No matter how hard I try I cannot keep the law and neither can you. If we could then Christ wasted his time and effort. I trust in Christ and His work of the cross and that causes me By The Holy Spirit to keep his commandments as best I can by His work and not my own.
I would go further than that.
It is Faith in Christs death for my sins that I am forgiven my sins and reconciled to God. and it is the grace of God through the Holy Spirit to now cause me to do what I could not do before. Keep Gods law. yet it is not I but Christ in me, it is His works in me.
Obeying the commandments can only be done by faith in Gods promises. It is not I but Christ. This is why John said this:
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
keeping the commandments shows that He is in us working through us. John is not saying that we need to try harder but rather that Jesus living in you will provide the same works of Jesus through you. If you are still breaking the law then it shows that Jesus is not living in you.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
notice the point here. If you are born of God you will not sin, why? because his seed/Jesus is in you and you cannot sin. its Christ working in you. this is how Gods children are manifest.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Its very simple if while I am a slave I sin then when I am free I don't sin. simple logic that John uses here. and the why is what is important.
Its Christ in you the hope of Glory. The reason so many fail at this is because they either try harder to keep the law to please God. or they don't try because they say it is impossible so why bother.
but there is another class who John speaks of, those who realize that God has freed us from sin and the Devil and trying harder does not work. so by Faith they accept Jesus death and life in them. and this Faith Causes the works of Faith to be seen in obedience to Gods law. Jesus fulfilled the law once and he does it again in those who Believe in Him.
It is Faith in Christs death for my sins that I am forgiven my sins and reconciled to God. and it is the grace of God through the Holy Spirit to now cause me to do what I could not do before. Keep Gods law. yet it is not I but Christ in me, it is His works in me.
Obeying the commandments can only be done by faith in Gods promises. It is not I but Christ. This is why John said this:
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
keeping the commandments shows that He is in us working through us. John is not saying that we need to try harder but rather that Jesus living in you will provide the same works of Jesus through you. If you are still breaking the law then it shows that Jesus is not living in you.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
notice the point here. If you are born of God you will not sin, why? because his seed/Jesus is in you and you cannot sin. its Christ working in you. this is how Gods children are manifest.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Its very simple if while I am a slave I sin then when I am free I don't sin. simple logic that John uses here. and the why is what is important.
Its Christ in you the hope of Glory. The reason so many fail at this is because they either try harder to keep the law to please God. or they don't try because they say it is impossible so why bother.
but there is another class who John speaks of, those who realize that God has freed us from sin and the Devil and trying harder does not work. so by Faith they accept Jesus death and life in them. and this Faith Causes the works of Faith to be seen in obedience to Gods law. Jesus fulfilled the law once and he does it again in those who Believe in Him.
Gotime, Abraham Believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. He messed up several times and looked to his flesh but ultimately he trusted God. By the way he had no law or ten commandments. Th just shall live by faith. Amen
have you not read,
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Abraham received the promise because he obeyed God.
Abraham learned to obey God, Yes he stumbled but notice he got to the point where he had such faith that he was willing to sacrifice his own son, the son of the promise. So it is with us all, we grow into the likeness of Jesus until self is dead and Christ lives in us. Then we shall be like Him and sin not as John says.
Okay, good answer, but what does that have to do with the ten commandments. Abraham lived by faith yes or no. By so much faith that he was willing to kill his son believing that God would raise him from the dead. Coming from a family that worshipped a wooden statue. That is great faith.
Abraham came from a culture where human sacrifice was the norm, Ur of the Chaldees is in modern Iraq. The fact he believed in God and had faith in God is self evident, he obeyed God in the first place by leaving Ur, and preparing to sacrifice his son was another act both of obedience and faith, believing that the Lord would provide. After being tested, God provided a way of escape.
Faith in God has always been paramount for salvation, as Paul and Silas said to the jailor, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" and for me the lesson is simple, first we need to come to the Lord believing and then we need to follow Him and keep his commandments. Both the Ten Commandments and stricter commandments of Jesus cut through the moral jungle that we live in today surrounded as we are by many cultures and ideologies and take us straight to the throne of God. Praise his wonderful name.
Faith in God has always been paramount for salvation, as Paul and Silas said to the jailor, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" and for me the lesson is simple, first we need to come to the Lord believing and then we need to follow Him and keep his commandments. Both the Ten Commandments and stricter commandments of Jesus cut through the moral jungle that we live in today surrounded as we are by many cultures and ideologies and take us straight to the throne of God. Praise his wonderful name.
It seems to our minds used to having the written word that they had no law until Moses, but I think they had the law from the beginning. We don't think of word of mouth, or memory as being reliable, but all through history we have examples of it being reliable. Way into the 12th century kings had jesters who repeated stories from memory. The story of Cain and Abel really doesn't make much sense if we believe that they had no idea of law, and many other examples doesn't. How cold Noah have been righteous if Noah had absolutely no idea what God considered righteous.
praise God. I can see you have thought about this. There are many examples before the law was given where people knew what sin was. Joseph is a stand out one.
Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
He knew what constitutes sin.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
now I ask myself, why did death reign from Adam to Moses if Death comes from sin and sin is not imputed when there is no law? The only answer is that while the law was not written on stone there was still knowledge of the law.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no sin.
and again,
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Its clear then that Paul new the law was known before it was given on stone. just like the son of God who would save the world was known before He actually came.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
If there was not then how did Abraham keep God's law?
How did Joseph know what sin was?
In fact you will find that all 10 commandments are seen as sin before the law was given through Moses.
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Ariel82
Guest
Can you show with scripture how people before Moses kept the Sabbath, please?
Also some verses that clearly show that Jesus wanted people to keep the Sabbath by not working, cooking, bearing burdens, etc would be helpful. thanks.
Or if you believe Sabbath can be kept a different way, that would be helpful as well.
1 Joh 2:7 "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning."
"Beginning" is stressed here as they key word. Adam and Eve knew what to do and what not, as God had already informed them. Although it is not recorded, they knew what sin was and knew the consequences. Satan also knew what God wanted His children to do or not to do and he took his chances with Adam and Eve, and succeeded. I do not believe that God would have punished them if they did not know, which is a logical deduction. God gave them the do's and don'ts. The fact that God gave Abraham the Ten Commandments on stone many years later do not confirm that the law did not exist before then. It was given to mankind on stone as a sign of permanency, in a time when there were a lot of sin and they did not believe in the existence of God. That explains why Abraham, Joseph, Noah etc knew what God wanted, which were all in line with the Ten Commandments.
Abraham's obedience was the evidence of his faith!
his faith in God and God's promises.
not the other way around.
that passage you quote is for Isaac's encouragement concerning the promises and provision.
of course Isaac is encouraged to be obedient - God was saying, He made promises to Abraham and Abraham believed God and obeyed, and everything He promised came to pass.
but the promises to Abraham were not a result of his obedience!
the promises were made by God and Abram believed Him.
how do you obey/do according to something or someone you don't believe?
you'll have to show God saying to Abraham something like "Abram, if you do this, i'll do that" - He doesn't say that.
He does tell us Abraham believed THEN obeyed.
And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
^ the first time belief (faith) is mentioned in scripture, AND the first time righteousness is mentioned.
and the clear message is faith in/taking God at His Word is credited as righteousness.
.....
Romans 4:1-3
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Romans 4:9-10
Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
Romans 4:19-24
And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Galatians 3:5-7
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?; just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
k.
God Bless
Please provide me proof of your 'thrice Holy God'.
The Ten Commandments cannot 'save you'. It is your belief and action that will provide the saving. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Son of God, and by living out the Ten Commandments, I believe you will be saved. The person who just do what the Commandments specify with no belief in Jesus, will not be saved. Although people will fail in upholding the law 100 percent, grace now comes in to play as Jesus Christ died on the cross for us. Our sins are forgiven if you truly confess and repent your sins. As you also strive to live out the law of God, He will give you the strength to make it easier. Jesus took all the sins of the world on His shoulders when He died which means that whatever sins you have committed, your sins will be forgiven if you become a child of Jesus Christ and live out the Commandments as that also shows your love towards God and your neighbor.
Living in faith and ignoring the Commandments is like building a house with no foundations. It will collapse. The upholding of the Commandments confirm your love towards God and your neighbor and your belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, will provide that place in heaven.
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Ariel82
Guest
building a house on the Commandments or your ability to keep them and not CHRIST is like building on sand with rotting wood.
I just need to make a small correction ----- 'the Law was given to Moses' and not Abraham. I apologize for the mistake.