Are there two gospels or ONE?

[TheDivineWatermark]

Millions saved.
They are the innumerable number in rev before the throne.

Okay, so we are agreed that MANY MORE ppl come to faith AFTER the "Rapture" of "the Church which is His body" (tho I see vv14-17 paralleling Isa49:10 / earthly MK destination)

...if you are referring to Revelation 7:9,14 (as I believe you are), I see that [v.9] as correlating with Matt24:14/26:13 (DURING the trib years; AFTER the Church which is His body is caught UP "to the meeting of the Lord... IN THE AIR"). So how would YOU say (I know "how") those people will hear "salvation truths"?? since the Church which is His body will no longer be present on the earth during that time span?

...(some make this an issue as to why they themselves cannot ever embrace the "pre-trib" view, because of what they perceive as an "impossibility"--what say you? EDIT: oh wait! I think I remember... you don't believe the ENTIRE/WHOLE "body of Christ [ONE BODY]" is included in the Rapture. I disagree, and believe that is due to wrong application of certain Scriptures [wrongly applied to us/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY].)

 

[Rightlydivided]

He did in fact meet with them. Probably pre paul.
Not likely he kept quiet,since he was constantly putting his foot in his mouth .

They all preached the gospel of grace.
From Jesus,right into the apostles and early jewish church

So what was revealed unto Paul.

Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God Given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places Might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

Yes, the other appostles were made aware, after he had already been preaching the message. He went back to them, to tell them in secret, where he was given the right hand of fellowship, to preach the gospel of the uncircumcised, and Peter agreed the rest of them would preach the gospel of the circumcised. Hmm 2 different gospels, declared in scripture.

Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise (opposite of what they thought), when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised, was committed unto me!, as the gospel of the circumcised, was unto Peter;

When they saw, that Christ chose Paul

Was hid in God, until now(right now, not time passed)

 

[obedienttogod]

I’m not saying that he wouldn’t have, but only through Paul’s revelation...I suppose any of the twelve could have in the latter parts, after the stoning of Stephen, but only according to the grace message of Paul.....Do we have any records of Peters preaching to the gentile? Obviously I’m not speaking of Matthew 28

We have both of Peter's Epistles, which were written in Rome to the Gentiles.

 

[Absolutely]

Okay, so we are agreed that MANY MORE ppl come to faith AFTER the "Rapture" of "the Church which is His body" (tho I see vv14-17 paralleling Isa49:10 / earthly MK destination)

...if you are referring to Revelation 7:9,14 (as I believe you are), I see that [v.9] as correlating with Matt24:14/26:13 (DURING the trib years; AFTER the Church which is His body is caught UP "to the meeting of the Lord... IN THE AIR"). So how would YOU say (I know "how") those people will hear "salvation truths"?? since the Church which is His body will no longer be present on the earth during that time span?

...(some make this an issue as to why they themselves cannot ever embrace the "pre-trib" view, because of what they perceive as an "impossibility"--what say you? EDIT: oh wait! I think I remember... you don't believe the ENTIRE/WHOLE "body of Christ [ONE BODY]" is included in the Rapture. I disagree, and believe that is due to wrong application of certain Scriptures [wrongly applied to us/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY].)

Rev 14 has a rapture during the gt.
None of the postrib rapture adherants go there.

 

[Absolutely]

So what was revealed unto Paul.

Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God Given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places Might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

Yes, the other appostles were made aware, after he had already been preaching the message. He went back to them, to tell them in secret, where he was given the right hand of fellowship, to preach the gospel of the uncircumcised, and Peter agreed the rest of them would preach the gospel of the circumcised. Hmm 2 different gospels, declared in scripture.

Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise (opposite of what they thought), when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised, was committed unto me!, as the gospel of the circumcised, was unto Peter;

When they saw, that Christ chose Paul

Was hid in God, until now(right now, not time passed)

Now study what paul preached in the synagogues to the jews AFTER his conversion.
Apparently a good part of his ministry was indeed to Jews.
But,like I said ,all the nt is grace message. The opening of the gospel to the gentile came first through peter.
Peter knew the born again message
....grace

 

[Absolutely]

So what was revealed unto Paul.

Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God Given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places Might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

Yes, the other appostles were made aware, after he had already been preaching the message. He went back to them, to tell them in secret, where he was given the right hand of fellowship, to preach the gospel of the uncircumcised, and Peter agreed the rest of them would preach the gospel of the circumcised. Hmm 2 different gospels, declared in scripture.

Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise (opposite of what they thought), when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised, was committed unto me!, as the gospel of the circumcised, was unto Peter;

When they saw, that Christ chose Paul

Was hid in God, until now(right now, not time passed)

Both paul and peter preached Jesus.
The only way to salvation

 

[Absolutely]

So what was revealed unto Paul.

Ephesians 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God Given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places Might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God

Yes, the other appostles were made aware, after he had already been preaching the message. He went back to them, to tell them in secret, where he was given the right hand of fellowship, to preach the gospel of the uncircumcised, and Peter agreed the rest of them would preach the gospel of the circumcised. Hmm 2 different gospels, declared in scripture.

Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise (opposite of what they thought), when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised, was committed unto me!, as the gospel of the circumcised, was unto Peter;

When they saw, that Christ chose Paul

Was hid in God, until now(right now, not time passed)

All of that is emphacising the gentile grafted in, not that Paul was the only true gospel carrier.

 

[Absolutely]

When Jesus returns to the earth and sits on the throne of His glory and has all the nations gathered before Him, He tells the Sheep (of the nations [plural]), "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, inherit the kingdom [HAVING BEEN] PREPARED for you FROM [apo - G575] THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD"... [this parallels the "BLESSED" passages I've listed re: the earthly MK]

Do you see any distinction between "[HAVING BEEN] PREPARED [for you (Sheep of the nations, PLURAL)] FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" to that of Jesus' words in your verse which states, "I GO TO PREPARE a place for you...". Any difference whatsoever?


[by the way, "FROM [G575 - apo] the foundation of the world" is distinct from what is said of others elsewhere, "BEFORE [G4253 - pro] the foundation of the world"]

And yet Jesus places the setting in heaven at the last supper.
You have zero traction. Zero
The saints are in heaven in rev 19.

In heaven,during the gt.

No brainer. The wedding and feast are in heaven.

 

[Rightlydivided]

We have both of Peter's Epistles, which were written in Rome to the Gentiles.

Yes, so Peter was given a vision while visiting Cornelius....

All of that is emphacising the gentile grafted in, not that Paul was the only true gospel carrier.

Respectfully, are you choosing not to see? Who does it say the gospel of the uncircumcised was committed to? It literally says.... You can’t overlook that.....it says explicitly Paul....All this is not emphasizing the grafting in of the gentile, is is saying “who” was commissioned to preach it....you cannot find scripture, to support Peter taking Paul’s place...in Acts where Peter has the vision, was simply his revelation, to understand that Paul would go unto the gentile...and give Paul the “right hand of fellowship”

 

[Rightlydivided]

All of that is emphacising the gentile grafted in, not that Paul was the only true gospel carrier.

Galatians 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But contrariwise (opposite of what they thought), when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcised, was committed unto me!, as the gospel of the circumcised, was unto Peter;

When they saw, that Christ chose Paul

Was hid in God, until now(right now, not time passed)

 

[Rightlydivided]

Now study what paul preached in the synagogues to the jews AFTER his conversion.
Apparently a good part of his ministry was indeed to Jews.
But,like I said ,all the nt is grace message. The opening of the gospel to the gentile came first through peter.
Peter knew the born again message
....grace

Yes, Paul was explicit, he preached to Jews and gentiles alike, but he also is explicit that he had a different message when he was with the Jews(under the law) he says he has to be under the law, to save as many as he can...He is not preaching the law to the gentiles. He is preaching it to the Jew, because they were under the law......obviously now that has changed as we are not Jew nor gentile, and all the same in spirit (a Jew inwardly)

 

[Rightlydivided]

And yet Jesus places the setting in heaven at the last supper.
You have zero traction. Zero
The saints are in heaven in rev 19.

In heaven,during the gt.

No brainer. The wedding and feast are in heaven.

The prayer......thy kingdom (come) thy will be done, on (earth) as it is in heaven.....

Would be very confusing if this meant that a Kingdom was not coming on earth....veeeery confusing

 

[Rightlydivided]

All of that is emphacising the gentile grafted in, not that Paul was the only true gospel carrier.

Are you going to say that Paul was not commissioned to the gentile, and Peter and the others were not committed to the circumcised, in this passage also?

Galatians 2:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Rev 14 has a rapture during the gt.

In another thread, I gave detailed reason why I do not believe the 144,000 are "raptured" (in Rev14).

But now YOU have 3 Raptures goin' on?? (one pre-trib... one at Rev14 for the 144,000... and one at Rev19/Matt24:29-31 for the OT folks & trib folks[??] to join the supper UP THERE [that you suppose is located there, despite my showing you how the text itself does NOT state such a thing]??)

Matthew 24:29-31 correlates with Isaiah 27:12-13 where THEY are said to be "gather[-ed] ONE BY ONE"... "to worship the Lord IN JERUSALEM" (by angels He shall SEND to do so), completely distinct from how our Rapture will occur ("AS ONE" and "IN THE AIR" and "to the meeting of the Lord" THERE, and for specific [other] purposes... 1Cor6:3[14] for example... ). Daniel [OT saint] was not promised "Rapture" but "resurrection" (which Martha well-knew!)

None of the postrib rapture adherants go there.

I see no Rapture in Rev14. It just says "no man COULD LEARN THAT SONG *BUT*" them. It doesn't mean the ones in heaven (singing) were THEM.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The saints are in heaven in rev 19.

In heaven,during the gt.

To be clear, yes, I believe "the Church which is His body" will have been in heaven since [the point in time of] "pre-trib" (that is, before the first SEAL [parallel with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5] is opened).

But the "Rapture" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" (NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints [Daniel was told he would "stand in thy lot at the end of the days [the days of that context]"]; not to Trib saints [Rev20:4]; not to MK saints).

We ("the Church which is His body") return "WITH Him" (FOR the earthly MK time period [or at least its inauguration]). The "guests [plural]" and the "10 virgins [even the 5; plural]" are still on the earth when He "RETURNS" there (following "the MARRIAGE" itself, pertaining solely to "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" Rev19:7.... Rev19:9's PLURALS are distinct [and correlate with all the "BLESSED" passages from the gospels (I'd listed) and even Daniel 12:12's "BLESSED is he that cometh to the 1335 days"... because that's the point in time when the promised and prophesied earthly MK will commence. He (this person/persons) is not lifting off the earth, in this passage , because they are not slated for "Rapture"!])

No brainer. The wedding and feast are in heaven.

 

[obedienttogod]

Yes, so Peter was given a vision while visiting Cornelius....

You did ask if there was scripture relating Peter teaching/preaching/etc to the Gentiles. His 2 Epistles teaches them, so the answer would be, "yes there is."

 

[Hevosmies]

Yes, so Peter was given a vision while visiting Cornelius....


Respectfully, are you choosing not to see? Who does it say the gospel of the uncircumcised was committed to? It literally says.... You can’t overlook that.....it says explicitly Paul....All this is not emphasizing the grafting in of the gentile, is is saying “who” was commissioned to preach it....you cannot find scripture, to support Peter taking Paul’s place...in Acts where Peter has the vision, was simply his revelation, to understand that Paul would go unto the gentile...and give Paul the “right hand of fellowship”

There is no different gospels for the circumcised and uncircumcised. The gospel is the same for all.
This is more hyper-dispie heresy which came about just RECENTLY. As brother preacher4truth likes to say "if its new, it aint true". Which in this case definately applies. If nobody had thought of this before the 1800s, thats a good clue that its not true. Holy Spirit would of shown it to someone before the 1800s had it been so.

Here it is in modern english: NIV

Galatians 2:7
On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised.

Peter's main ministry was to Jews, Paul's main ministry was to the gentiles.

But both preached to both groups as is EVIDENT from the book of Acts, Paul preached to JEWS and GENTILES faith and repentance, same message to both groups. Why wont you ever touch this subject? because you cant.
Where did you read about this hyper-dispensational "rightly dividing" stuff? Ironically, the word means to cut straight to not to dice the bible into bits and peaces and make unnecessary distinctions and make everything complicated.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The fact remains that some things were necessarily "kept secret/hidden" until AFTER Jesus' crucifixion. [1Cor2:7-8]

In view of that, let me just post a paragraph by William Kelly on this particular topic ^ :

[quoting]

"We must, however, guard against the notion that "the mystery" or secret means the gospel. The gospel in itself does not and never can mean a mystery. It was that which in its foundations always was before the mind of God's people in the form of promise, or of a revelation of grace not yet accomplished. But nowhere in Scripture is the gospel called a mystery. It may be connected with the mystery, but it is not itself a mystery. It was no mystery that a Saviour was to be given; it was the very first revelation of grace after man became a sinner. The Seed of the woman was to bruise the serpent's head. A mystery is something that was not revealed of old, and which could not be known otherwise. Again, you have in the prophets a full declaration that the righteousness of God was near to come; the plainest possible statement that God was going to show Himself a Saviour-God. So again you have His making an end of sins and bringing in reconciliation and everlasting righteousness. All these things were in no sense the mystery. The mystery means that which was kept secret, not that which could not be understood, which is a human notion of mystery; but an unrevealed secret, - a secret not yet divulged in the Old Testament but brought out fully in the New. What, then, is this mystery? It is, first, that Christ, instead of taking the kingdom, predicted by the prophets, should completely disappear from the scene of this world, and that God should set Him up in heaven at His own right hand as the Head of all glory, heavenly and earthly, and that He should give the whole universe into the hands of Christ to administer the kingdom and maintain the glory of God the Father in it. This is the first and most essential part of the mystery, the second, or Church's part, being but the consequence of it. Christ's universal headship is not the theme spoken of in the Old Testament. You have Him as Son of David, Son of man, Son of God, the King; but nowhere is the whole universe of God (but rather the kingdom under the whole heavens) put under Him. In this headship over all things, Christ will share all with His bride. Christ will have His Church the partner of His own unlimited dominion, when that day of glory dawns upon the world.
Hence, then, as we know, the mystery consists of two great parts, which we have summed up in Ephesians 5:32; "This is a great mystery; but I speak concerning Christ and the church." "

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This too (by another):

"To take from Israel what is hers is only to diminish her and not enrich ourselves; nay, what has been called in this way the spiritualizing of the promises has led most surely and emphatically to the carnalizing, and the legalizing, of the Church."
--FW Grant

 

[Rightlydivided]

There is no different gospels for the circumcised and uncircumcised. The gospel is the same for all.
This is more hyper-dispie heresy which came about just RECENTLY. As brother preacher4truth likes to say "if its new, it aint true". Which in this case definately applies. If nobody had thought of this before the 1800s, thats a good clue that its not true. Holy Spirit would of shown it to someone before the 1800s had it been so.

Here it is in modern english: NIV

Galatians 2:7
On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised.

Peter's main ministry was to Jews, Paul's main ministry was to the gentiles.

But both preached to both groups as is EVIDENT from the book of Acts, Paul preached to JEWS and GENTILES faith and repentance, same message to both groups. Why wont you ever touch this subject? because you cant.
Where did you read about this hyper-dispensational "rightly dividing" stuff? Ironically, the word means to cut straight to not to dice the bible into bits and peaces and make unnecessary distinctions and make everything complicated.

Would be glad to touch this subject, but if your going to tell me, that divine inspiration lead to the NIV.....Well Hevo, I’m not sure what to say. There are reasons the KJV has been the standard....and truthfully, you completely contradict yourself with “if it’s new, it ain’t true”.....Do you apply that to your own studies? The NIV was translated in 1978, 40 phrases were omitted, and 60,000 words removed.....I’m sure that you are familiar with the penalties of adding to, or taking away scripture? Honestly, I’m not suprised that it wouldn’t come to this, jumping ship from the KJV, and going against your own principle of “if its new, it ain’t true”.

You didn’t start this thread to have a real study, like you said, that is evident in your responses to anyone that disagrees with you, that is your flesh speaking, not hard to see....as far as rightly dividing, and where I got it from?

It is called the KJV Bible, the inspired word of God

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.