Are we in the great tribulation
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I can't trust his guidance sorry.Of course not.
I won't vote because it's none of the above.
We might be getting close though.
This is my sincere recommendation.
Read your Bible from cover to cover.
Then focus your attention on the tribulation passages.
Just don't get the references to God pouring out his WRATH in His judgements with TRIBULATION. They are separate.
That's where dispensationalists really mess up.
How do I know?
I used to be one.
Avoid commentaries and let the Holy Spirit guide you into this truth.
If you are not certain if He has been doing this already,
Start Here.
Maybe yours but not his.
But putting wrath aside and tribulations, and dispensation
Should we take into the account that great tribulations of spiritual warfare may be on a spiritual level that the eye does not see.
A Common Mistake made about tribulation
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
You can argue that this word is for the Jews, but it is still a reference to the people of God. You can also argue that this was fulfilled in 70AD, but pattern is prophesy, what we saw in 70AD we will see again at the end of this age, they are like two bookends holding up the entire church age between them.
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
All believers go through tribulation, and that has been going on for the entire church age. A more accurate description of the last 7 years of this age is "the 70th week" from Daniel, and the wrath of God is not poured out until you get to the mid point of those seven years. One major mistake people make is to equate "the tribulation" with "the wrath of God" and say we are not appointed to wrath therefore there is a pre tribulation rapture. The "pre tribulation rapture" would refer to those who came out of the grave at the time of Jesus Resurrection, because we have had tribulation for the entire church age. We have had counterfeit messiah's, war, famine, plague and martyrdom for the entire 2,000 years. However, pattern is prophecy so we will see this condensed, intensified and nuttified like never before during those last seven years.
Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Tribulation first on the Jews, that is what we saw with the holocaust. But after that also on the Gentiles, that is what we see in the book of Revelation. On the cross they crucified Jesus, a third of the Godhead, during the Holocaust they killed a third of the Jews and during the 70th week a third of the nations will be killed.
2Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
This is where many "anti dispensationalists" go wrong. At the end of the church age the church is caught up like at the olympics the winners of the events stand on a platform and get a reward. But then those that troubled you will be troubled. That is what the 70th week is, a last chance to repent as righteous judgement falls. The problem is that most of the troubling comes from those in religion. So Peter says that Judgement begins with the house of God, the 70th week must begin with judgement on the "house of God". The rapture is one kind of judgment, and "troubling those that troubled you" is another kind of judgement. Both must take place at the beginning of the 70th week.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Clearly believers will "come out of great tribulation" which mostly refers to the persecution during the 70th week with the beheading of those who won't take the mark of the beast.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
You can argue that this word is for the Jews, but it is still a reference to the people of God. You can also argue that this was fulfilled in 70AD, but pattern is prophesy, what we saw in 70AD we will see again at the end of this age, they are like two bookends holding up the entire church age between them.
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
All believers go through tribulation, and that has been going on for the entire church age. A more accurate description of the last 7 years of this age is "the 70th week" from Daniel, and the wrath of God is not poured out until you get to the mid point of those seven years. One major mistake people make is to equate "the tribulation" with "the wrath of God" and say we are not appointed to wrath therefore there is a pre tribulation rapture. The "pre tribulation rapture" would refer to those who came out of the grave at the time of Jesus Resurrection, because we have had tribulation for the entire church age. We have had counterfeit messiah's, war, famine, plague and martyrdom for the entire 2,000 years. However, pattern is prophecy so we will see this condensed, intensified and nuttified like never before during those last seven years.
Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Tribulation first on the Jews, that is what we saw with the holocaust. But after that also on the Gentiles, that is what we see in the book of Revelation. On the cross they crucified Jesus, a third of the Godhead, during the Holocaust they killed a third of the Jews and during the 70th week a third of the nations will be killed.
2Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
This is where many "anti dispensationalists" go wrong. At the end of the church age the church is caught up like at the olympics the winners of the events stand on a platform and get a reward. But then those that troubled you will be troubled. That is what the 70th week is, a last chance to repent as righteous judgement falls. The problem is that most of the troubling comes from those in religion. So Peter says that Judgement begins with the house of God, the 70th week must begin with judgement on the "house of God". The rapture is one kind of judgment, and "troubling those that troubled you" is another kind of judgement. Both must take place at the beginning of the 70th week.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Clearly believers will "come out of great tribulation" which mostly refers to the persecution during the 70th week with the beheading of those who won't take the mark of the beast.
Can I just ask before I dive in to the above post.
Why should the evil that is in the world right now be any less deserving of greater tribulations to come.
Why should the evil that is in the world right now be any less deserving of greater tribulations to come.
So lets see
Jesus says the great tribulation will immediately follow the abomination of desolation. It will end with his return (matt 24)
Revelations show the trumpets and a period that the kingd of earth call the time of Gods wrath. And is ended when Jesus returns.
but we should not put 2 and 2 together. And We should not think they are the same.
I do not know what kind of dispensationalist you were. But if you do not understand this basic truth. You must not have been a ver good or knowledgeable one
The great tribulation is a time period on earth. In tthe OT the same words are used for the time of Jacob’s trouble. (Greater than has every been before or will after)
The evil in the world right now will pale against the evil that is to come..
Remember the words of Jesus. He said unless he stopped it. No life would survive..
I believe until the advent of nuclear war. This has not even been possible.
Yet today it is. It is hard to believe it can get worse. But it can. And will
Take world war 1 and world war 2. That would be your base of how bad it will get. Only it will be far worse And worldwide
Something very similar to a nuclear holocaust (we got a preview of that at the end of WW2, pattern is prophecy), the holocaust (we saw that also in WW2), a famine that leads to cannibalism, summary executions in the street (we saw that in Nazi Germany), Biological warfare (we got a taste of that in 2020), Chemical warfare (we saw that in WW1), and couple that with deadly meteorites (we saw that with the dinosaurs). This all ends with Armageddon which is likened to an incinerator burning a massive amount of human bodies up with blood 2-3 feet deep. (we got a preview of this massive stack of bodies being burned in an incinerator in the holocaust, that is what "holocaust" means, "burnt offering").
Jacob's trouble is typified by the ten day period from the Feast of Trumpets to the Day of Atonement. That is a ten day period, and only the last seven days are so serious that the High priest must be taken to a temple chamber to insure he doesn't die. The book of Joel tells us this ten year period begins with a worldwide shutdown of the economy due to a frankenstein bug that looks like four bugs put together, perhaps a bioweapon. It is extremely small and gets through the tiniest crack, but it travels very fast like horses galloping across the land. The global shutdown is said to be God declaring a sabbath for people to fast and pray.
Joel also makes it clear that many religious leaders will wail and cry because the offering is cut off.
This is not for the entire ten days, but only for the Feast of Trumpets announcing that the day of Judgment is coming. The Feast of Trumpets is known as "the longest day" and so this could last as long as two years, probably longer than one year.
What does that mean?
The tribulation is designed to cause people to repent of sin.
I'm aware of this
I'm asking if the the nuclear war would signify the start of a greater tribulation.
Or will the tribulations leading up to the nuclear war be the start of the greater tribulation.
Or will it be before the nuclear war starts there will be nobody hiding in there holes or man caves
Post 34 describes what you will see 10 years before Armageddon.I'm aware of this
I'm asking if the the nuclear war would signify the start of a greater tribulation.
Or will the tribulations leading up to the nuclear war be the start of the greater tribulation.
Or will it be before the nuclear war starts there will be nobody hiding in there holes or man caves
Joel says clearly that this global shutdown and bug that devours the economy has never been seen before in human history, when you see that it is time to "prepare to meet your God".now you have me interested you may proceed
Also Joel says that even the great men like the President will get be impacted by this frankenstein bug, don't be surprised if this bioweapon even send the President to the hospital.
Are you familiar with amillennial and postmillennial eschatology?interesting