Amen! All genuine believers who have true faith are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?
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Thee only one watering anything down are the workers for salvation...they water the blood down with the works that CHRIST is the one producing....You should logically think about anything that grows.....serious....ONE cannot produce unless they are already in the vine...even creation condemns your view....works do not save or keep saved...are you dense to Galatians
SAVED by faith BUT FINISHED or MAINTAINED BY WORKS=a false double cursed different gospel with no power to save...wake up before you find yourself standing before JESUS boasting of your works in his name as your right to enter......only to be cast I might ADD....
EXPLAIN...they claim to know HIM (I am a Christian) I have done many wonderful works in the NAME of JESUS (religion) and he said I NEVER KNEW YOU
Plenteous in NUMBER <---the word MANY......MOST so called Christian religions PUSH WORKS as part of SALVATION....wake up pal....serious....ALL OF THE WORKERS FOR SHOULD WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION..GALATIANS condemns your false gospel............!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN to this as well.....and lest we forget.....
a. A fruit tree takes years to produce (growth and maturity)
b. EVEN one piece identifies the tree, even a dried up piece
c. One cannot produce unless already IN THE VINE
d. Some have works of Gold, Silver and Precious stones...some wood, hay and stubble yet STILL SAVED
Works do not save, keep saved, maintain salvation....salvation is a once for all act of faith......any work or fruit is JESUS in us doing the work or bearing the fruit....that is why the bolded underlined is biblical.
Then it comes down to what is fruit? I have said this before but there are always new people and this may help them to com out of religion and come to trusting in Christ's work alone.
Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like? What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?
An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?
To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.
A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life or outbursts of anger..etc.
We religious people love to "categorize" sin - especially the ones that we have never done before and then look down on those that do have a problem that we don't. We say that they are "sinning" - and they are but so are we in other areas too. We all have the flesh to deal with and none of us behaves perfectly in our behavior.
The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.
Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?
What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.
I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!
Faith shows itself working in two directions working towards one (us), revealing expressed will and empowering the hearer to do his will. His faith makes His work perfect.
The words in and of or towards and from must be distinguished.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, "not having mine own righteousness", which is of the law, but that which is through the "faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
One faith(as a work) , one Lord .The faith of Christ ,the Holy Spirit which is of God by His faith.
Yes the true faith of Christ (not after the imaginations of one's own heart , Human faith that can't see past the end of our nose.) that works in us imputes a righteousness not of our own selves.
Two directions, earthward the faith of Christ that alone comes from from hearing God and heavenward as the fruit of our lips, our amen (thank you Jesus) .
I agree......is not faith, hope and love spiritual fruit......what about a believer who gives a cup of cold water in the name of Jesus ONCE in his life....JESUS said he will not lose his reward.....a simple cup of cold water in the name of Jesus is fruit....those who work for their supposed salvation have no idea.........any good work or fruit that comes from a believer....IT IS ALL JESUS....that is why we have no right to boast, brag or push our works as a means of salvation....JESUS has already taken care of that....
Well said...
The church is in the condition it is in because of the watering down of the gospel of the grace of Christ and what it has been fed from well-meaning believers in Christ but had an inaccurate view of the work of Christ and how to live the true Christian life which is by grace through faith only.
The preaching and the teaching of Christ and His finished work is the only thing that has the power to reflect the life of Christ that is in us in our exchanged life.
Religion doesn't have it. Behavior modification which has been preached has watered down the grace of God from operating in their lives and actually nullified the only thing that God has made available for us to live by and experience this life in Christ.
The works-based non-gospel has no power to transform Christians. The church is the way it is because of the non-gospel of works that has been preached to them by trying to "dictate the fruit of the spirit" instead of feeding the body of Christ the proper nutrients of His love and grace for them to grow up in Christ properly.
But the Lord is changing all that and bringing the purity of the gospel of the grace of Christ back into His beloved church. He will be faithful to all of us. We just have to un-learn so much religious garbage and have our minds renewed to the true gospel of the grace of Christ.
Grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus did not rebuke them for doing works to earn salvation,but they were workers of iniquity,which they did not do the will of the Father.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Everyone that names the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,these people that said Lord,Lord,labored for the kingdom,but they would not depart from sin thinking that it did not hurt their relationship with Jesus,so they did not give up those sins as a Christian should do.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
They never came to the truth that they have to depart from sin to be right with God,so their flesh was in control instead of the Spirit,and would hold unto the sins and only repent of it when they did it,but would not let it go,so it was on their record when they died.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If we hold unto a sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,and some people that claim Christ hold unto sins,and will not allow the Spirit to lead them to act like Christ,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Jesus did not rebuke them for doing works to earn salvation,but they were workers of iniquity,not doing the will of the Father.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus did not rebuke them for doing works to earn salvation,but they were workers of iniquity,which they did not do the will of the Father.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Everyone that names the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,these people that said Lord,Lord,labored for the kingdom,but they would not depart from sin thinking that it did not hurt their relationship with Jesus,so they did not give up those sins as a Christian should do.
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
They never came to the truth that they have to depart from sin to be right with God,so their flesh was in control instead of the Spirit,and would hold unto the sins and only repent of it when they did it,but would not let it go,so it was on their record when they died.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If we hold unto a sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away,and some people that claim Christ hold unto sins,and will not allow the Spirit to lead them to act like Christ,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Jesus did not rebuke them for doing works to earn salvation,but they were workers of iniquity,not doing the will of the Father.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is by works.
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! They were self righteous. There are false prophets who prophecy in the name of Jesus and even make false prophecies.
Also, Satan may grant the power to one of his agents to cast out demons from another of his agents in order to gain attention and loyalty from an audience for his evil agenda. False teachers and false prophets have long demonstrated supernatural power granted by Satan, including the power to control the demonic realm. The enemy uses this deception to win an audience for his claims.
Also, in Matthew 10:1, we also see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).
To "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidentally fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).
The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in v. 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is a term often applied to Christians; it is the verb form of the adjective "holy") really just means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.
In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "made holy" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" and from other non-Christians and sinful things without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that just do not line up with scripture.
*In verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person’s apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
He did not say those works were not performed.( a point I believe that many over look)
That person simply had the faith of Christ, as the work of Christ that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure; “in respect to his own self “.By doing so he blasphemed ( attributing the work of another to one self) the Holy name by which He calls us heavenward. It violated the first commandment to have no gods (oneself) before him. as he calls us gods created in His image
Because He is not served by human hands in any way shape or form, he can use one that does believe, to do the works, or one who does not have the faith of Christ working in them. Like the many in Mathew 7, he was hoping the works he performed would be accredited to his own self. Christ did not say he was not doing the work of declaring the gospel(prophesying) which can cast out the demons. He called that “kind of worker” of self-righteousness that usurps the work of Christ’s faith, a worker of iniquity.
There is no work that we could perform that would guarantee of we have the Holy Spirit in respect to the faith of Christ, the anointing Spirit of God. we walk by faith (Christ) not after our own experiences.
If you have read anything I have written on here you will see that I have stated the bolded above....
To the rest...HE NEVER KNEW THEM.....WHY....because they, like the thief, attempted another door....MIXING FAITH and WORKS as their means of salvation....
THIS HELLISH philosophy is CONDEMNED by PAUL in the letter to the churches in Galatia....and is exactly why they are called the workers of iniquity!
HE calls them FOOLS because they were spreading saved by faith but finished by works.....he called it a gospel of a DIFFERENT KIND and states clearly that it is double cursed and has no power to save.....salvation is based entirely upon JESUS and his finished work.....
How is it that you cannot understand that ONE CANNOT bear ANYTHING unless they are ALREADY ALIVE IN THE VINE.....
Shakes head in utter amazement that all the WORKERS FOR are oblivious to this simple profound truth....
The WORKERS FOR willfully remove themselves from the SIMPLICITY that is found in CHRIST!
1 work, 23, 56, 898 1826 how many is enough...........you can do 193747563892757284249385 works to the 10th power and it will NEVER add ONE OUNCE of extra SALVATION to that which is found in JESUS by simple faith!
Sorry it was not directed at you. Not trying to be nit picky. And I would offer by adding because they, like the thief, attempted another door....NOT MIXING FAITH ,the faith of Christ, as the WORKS of Christ as their means of salvation.... The rest we do rest in was finished from the foundation of the world. Demonstrated by the three day work of suffering unto death .Christ cannot die, just as Noah is pictured alive and suffering.
We should identify just whose faith can produce the grace needed to pay the full wage of sin (eternal damnation) never to rise to new Spirit live forever more.
For unto us was the "gospel preached", as well as unto them: but "the word" preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.Heb 4:2
As you progress through the bible you will notice that each disciple is writing from their own perspective obviously and each verse relates to a particular situation. The crucifixion and multiple other verses atate that the only way to the father is through Jesus. Everybody is free to their interpretations of this however it relates to if you give your heart to Jesus you are saved. Jesus has paid for our souls, it is up to you qho picks up the layby. You are not saved through faith or works alone, you are saved through Jesus and only Jesus, as was the robber next to Jesus.
Doe's that mean all are saved? If we are not justified by by Grace, through Faith in Christ?
Christ's faith is not without works. It is by his work that he received the grace that he freely gives to them who have His work of faith, in respect to Christ's faith (not of our own selves.)
He is the just one and the justifier according to His labor of love.. As many as the father has given Him ,they will come.
I think you mean ''Christ's faithfulness' rather than 'Christs faith', well, at least I hope you do! Even at that, pistis christou, is better translated 'Faith in Christ.
Either way this does not negate the fact that we have to put/have Faith in Christ.. Christ was 'Faithful' in his active and passive obedience. And we have Faith in that obedience...the Gospel message.. we believe (Have Faith) in Christ's finished work. Both Christ's 'Faithfulness' and our faith in that work are important! So I don't totally disagree with you.
Where this conversation gets muddled especially regarding the Gospel message of we are justified 'By Grace alone. through Faith alone, in Christ alone' is the understanding of the difference between Justification and Sanctification. We are never Justified by any work of our own - even Faith is a divine grace.. given to the many who believe.
However, sanctification is synergistic, the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer and the bearing of fruit from that renewing by the believer, that is his perseverance in following Christ obediently. So we do works of righteousness only by, in, and through faith in Christ alone (that means believing all that Christ has done and is doing).
Luther realised this, along with the other reformers that the Gospel stands or falls on this very topic:
By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.
Anything else is works of self.
(p.s this post is not aimed directly at you garee, but to anyone who happens to read it. Praying that they investigate how important this is in reference to the Gospel itself).
J
jaybird88
Guest
Yes, I agree. Note the highlighted part of what what written. We are not saved by faith alone.
I will another short post on this in a few minutes.