Are we sinners?

[NetChaplain]

Intentional sin has always been indicative of one who is not after God, nor has intentional sin ever been forgiven because it's after one who rejects God (Num 15:24-31).

 

[NetChaplain]

I am shocked by the poll numbers. How people who have been washed in the blood of the Lamb can actually click on "yes" to designate themselves as sinners is beyond me. It shows a true lack of understanding of who one is in Christ. Both that and an underlying sense of false humility. Either way, God is not honoured in it, whatsoever.

Hi Euphemia - The concept that saints are not considered sinners is generally a new one because many have not read the Word enough yet to conceive the idea, but God will be showing us.

Blessed be God!

 

[Euphemia]

Hi Euphemia - The concept that saints are not considered sinners is generally a new one because many have not read the Word enough yet to conceive the idea, but God will be showing us.

Blessed be God!

You make a very valid point, brother in Christ!

 

[NetChaplain]

You make a very valid point, brother in Christ!

Thanks for the comment and appreciate the support for the truth of Scripture, which is plenty sufficient to go on. Below are a few examples that God's Word has maintained a differentiation between saints and sinners:

Pro 11:31; 13:6, 22

Ecc 8:12; 9:2; 9:18

Luk 7:37, 39; 15:7, 10; 18:13; 19:7

Jhn 9:16, 24, 25

Rom 3:7

Jas 5:20

1Pe 4:18

 

[crossnote]

I am who God says I am, and God says I am a saint. A totally forgiven, loved and accepted child of His. My sins do not define me, nor do they somehow change my identity. They do not change who I am in Christ.

There is no humbleness in seeing yourself as a sinner. If you are a sinner, then of course go sin, it's what a sinner does. It's their nature. But if you are a saint, it is your nature to not sin. When a saint sins they are acting contrary to who they are. Which is why all through the NT we are exhorted to be who we now are, and not the sinners we used to be.

It is not by seeing ourselves as sinners that we sin-less, it is by seeing ourselves as the new creations we now are in Christ. If we are saints then what are we doing wallowing around in the mud like the sinners we used to be?

Why indeed.

I sin less by confessing my state of being, and am totally dependent on His grace 24/7.
I suppose you sinless ones have already arrived.
The two natures abide in this earthly tent.


Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[crossnote]

I think it all boils down to "identity"...which identity do we align ourselves with..the old man which has been crucified with Christ..or the new man created in Christ in righteousness and holiness?

I don't think anyone says that believers don't sin anymore.....it's just that they are identifying themselves with Christ now.

That's my view....

Sure, we are to identify with Christ, and our new man but if we ignore the struggle between the spirit and flesh by only reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, it then becomes mental gymnastics, self effort, rather than applying ourselves to the grace and mercy of Christ in full dependence on Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sure, we are to identify with Christ, and our new man but if we ignore the struggle between the spirit and flesh by only reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, it then becomes mental gymnastics, self effort, rather than applying ourselves to the grace and mercy of Christ in full dependence on Him.

Modern/New/Hyper Grace is a religion of denial. It deals with the problem of the old man by denying his existence, rather than by sacrificing him on the cross of Christ. It is an identity faith that considers sin to be a symptom of a confused identity, rather than as the result of a persistent nature that must be starved daily. It's a faith that disassociates its practitioners from reality by pretending to get out of the way so that GOD can drive, rather than suffer the death of one's self so that GOD can fill the vessel and become one with it. It's a mystical mind game that has no stopgaps to determine what spirit it's actually letting in the door.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That's why there are no Scriptures referring to a believer as a sinner. Paul's declaration that he was "chief" is not only an isolated example but is actually in the past tense--"was" or "have been." (eimi)

This is simply not true. In 1 Timothy 1:15, Paul said I am foremost of sinners. Present Indicative Active.

1 Timothy 1:15 Greek Text Analysis

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Modern/New/Hyper Grace is a religion of denial. It deals with the problem of the old man by denying his existence, rather than by sacrificing him on the cross of Christ. It is an identity faith that considers sin to be a symptom of a confused identity, rather than as the result of a persistent nature that must be starved daily. It's a faith that disassociates its practitioners from reality by pretending to get out of the way so that GOD can drive, rather than suffer the death of one's self so that GOD can fill the vessel and become one with it. It's a mystical mind game that has no stopgaps to determine what spirit it's actually letting in the door.

Stopgaps above should read stop measures.

 

[Grace777x70]

It's by the Spirit that we are putting to death the deeds of the body.

Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

We are transformed by the Spirit of God as we behold Christ in our inner man. When we see Him - we see ourselves in Him.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Are being transformed = present passive

present tense = continuous action

passive voice = something being acted upon you - you are not doing it

As we see who we are in Christ - we by the Holy Spirit are transformed into His image. Christ/Holy Spirit/ Father all inhabit our new creations in Christ.

It is really an outward manifestation of what is already true within our new man in Christ.

Our "old man" ( which had the Adam nature in it ) was crucified with Christ as most other Christians have heard of before or should know. If this is not recognized we will be off in our understanding of the new creation in Christ. Christ and true believers in Him are united in our spirit which has been created in righteousness and true holiness. This is our new man - our true identity now.

We still have a body with flesh and the power of sin in it which is why we need to put to death the deeds of the body and this is done by the Spirit within - transforming us. This is where the Life of the Vine in us produces fruit in our outward lives. We are saved by His life.

Our body is simply a house for our new man but it still has the flesh/power of sin in it. This is not our identity. ( which is why we will get a new body )

Paul in Romans say that people are either "in the flesh" ( unbelievers with their old man still attached to the body with the power of sin in it ) or "in the Spirit" ( believers - with the nature of Christ in our inner man now ) - there is only one identity.

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

It's in the "knowing " that our old man is dead is where things start to come together concerning sinning or walking according to the Spirit and to start to have an understanding of the new creation in Christ.

Romans 6:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with ( to make useless), so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, It's by the life of Christ in our inner man is how we live now!

So, this is not about denying things....or having a mind game going on with oneself...it's all about spiritual awareness of who we are now in Christ in our new man...the new creation in Christ...the hidden man of the heart...this is our true self. It's all about awareness of us being in union with Christ.

Baby Christians have no idea of who they are in Him yet...they identify with their old man still - not seeing the new creation we are in Christ. These baby brothers can be Christians for 50 years...even be pastors in a church..deacons.....etc.

We all need to grow up in Him! We need all of our brothers and sisters in the Lord to mature.

Ephesians 4:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

Sure, we are to identify with Christ, and our new man but if we ignore the struggle between the spirit and flesh by only reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, it then becomes mental gymnastics, self effort, rather than applying ourselves to the grace and mercy of Christ in full dependence on Him.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Sure, we are to identify with Christ, and our new man but if we ignore the struggle between the spirit and flesh by only reckoning ourselves dead unto sin, it then becomes mental gymnastics, self effort, rather than applying ourselves to the grace and mercy of Christ in full dependence on Him.

Most excellent!!

 

[Grace777x70]

As far as how to deal with sinning...the answer I believe is in seeing who you are in Christ now....our new self has been created in righteousness and holiness...when we see Him and us in Him...we become outwardly what we are inwardly in our new spirit....this is how to "put to death" the deeds of the body.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As far as how to deal with sinning...the answer I believe is in seeing who you are in Christ now....our new self has been created in righteousness and holiness...when we see Him and us in Him...we become outwardly what we are inwardly in our new spirit....this is how to "put to death" the deeds of the body.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

This is one thing I don't like about the Modern/New/Hyper Grace mvmt. It teaches to focus on who we supposedly are (our identity), rather than the work of Christ himself which is what actually saves us, i.e., the blood that forgives all sin, right here, right now. "When I see the blood, I will pass over you..."

 

[ladylynn]

I sin less by confessing my state of being, and am totally dependent on His grace 24/7.
I suppose you sinless ones have already arrived.
The two natures abide in this earthly tent.


Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We no longer have 2 natures., the old man was put to death on the cross and we died., we are to 'recon ourselves dead to sin' Romans 6:11

We do not have a CIVIL WAR going on inside us. We have the memory/habit of living going on of how our minds and bodies used to live and think for our very life's existence. We depended on ourselves. We relied on how we thought and what we did. BUT NOW we are called to live a new way. Why do you suppose we are admonished to repent and have our minds actively changed from the inside out by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God?

Maybe that is why so many of us are not walking in the fullness of Christ as we could be. We don't agree with God on so many matters of what the Bible says and instead go with how we feel and what we understand in our humaness. Although He has given us a new spirit (of power and love and a sound mind) many Christians don't change to be what we already are IN Christ.

We have to agree with God when He said you are dead., and your life is now hid in Christ in God..... Col.3:2 Paul is making his appeal here to become IN experience what we ALREADY ARE by God's grace. We are risen in new life with Christ and our old man is DEAD.

Why don't more of us Christians live out who we are in Christ and have daily joy and victory? It's obvious, look at the 62.86% who identify themselves as sinners. If we want to be like Christ we can't believe our life is based on how WE think and feel ANYMORE., We are told to CHANGE YOUR MIND. Repent.. And that is a daily repentance/change of mind.

 

[ladylynn]

I sin less by confessing my state of being, and am totally dependent on His grace 24/7.
I suppose you sinless ones have already arrived.
The two natures abide in this earthly tent.


Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

And there ya go., our flesh will lust against the Spirit because it needs to be renewed. It's already been put to death...now recon it., believe it and walk it out. or else "you cannot do the things that you would" only because the old way of thinking in your mind is NOT in agreement with what Jesus has done, but it can be by agreeing with what Jesus has done for us already.

Too many believers are trying to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. We are free from the dominion of sin., how? By what Jesus already did..now recon it to be so.,walk it out work out your own salvation with fear and trembling... in awe in seriousness / single mindedness.

 

[ladylynn]

This is one thing I don't like about the Modern/New/Hyper Grace mvmt. It teaches to focus on who we supposedly are (our identity), rather than the work of Christ himself which is what actually saves us, i.e., the blood that forgives all sin, right here, right now. "When I see the blood, I will pass over you..."

How else can we have victory unless we DO focus on who the Bible says we are and NOT what WE THINK we are??? What we think does not have value when it contradicts the Word of God. Get rid of it and repent/change your mind to agree with what He says.

Why would you not like that solution? have you not gotten sick of the flesh and it's annoying contradictions and confusions? It's a Bible solution., not a human solution.

And just an added thought from me., this is not a new message of modern/hyper/grace movement. It's just new to you. The truth has always been there. It just takes us time to see it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I sin less by confessing my state of being, and am totally dependent on His grace 24/7.
I suppose you sinless ones have already arrived.
The two natures abide in this earthly tent.


Galatians 5:17 KJVS
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The flesh is not a sin nature. And I have already corrected what you are now slanderously again falsely claiming about myself.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is one thing I don't like about the Modern/New/Hyper Grace mvmt. It teaches to focus on who we supposedly are (our identity), rather than the work of Christ himself which is what actually saves us, i.e., the blood that forgives all sin, right here, right now. "When I see the blood, I will pass over you..."

Ummm, you left out the "in Christ" part there....it's who we are in Christ. Christ IS the focus.

 

[Grace777x70]

He is kinda important.....after all....He is our life now...Jesus is everything to us...good one!

Ummm, you left out the "in Christ" part there....it's who we are in Christ. Christ IS the focus.

 

[FreeNChrist]

And there ya go., our flesh will lust against the Spirit because it needs to be renewed. It's already been put to death...now recon it., believe it and walk it out. or else "you cannot do the things that you would" only because the old way of thinking in your mind is NOT in agreement with what Jesus has done, but it can be by agreeing with what Jesus has done for us already.

Too many believers are trying to DO WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. We are free from the dominion of sin., how? By what Jesus already did..now recon it to be so.,walk it out work out your own salvation with fear and trembling... in awe in seriousness / single mindedness.

I love that word "reckon".