Are you a monergist or a synergist?

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Which are you? Please vote only once and simply add 1 to the current total for what you choose.

  • Monergist Total = 0 Synergist Total = 0

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .
The terms you use here - Calvinism, Arminianism, Reformed Provisionism are anachronistic with respect to the ECF since these theological constructs simply did not exist when the Early Church Fathers were teaching and preaching. In fact, until Augustine came in the Fifth Century, no one taught total unilateral determinism of every physical event in the universe together with every thought emotion, desire and choice of mankind.

If we had to label them we would have to call both the Eastern (Orthodox) division of Christendom and Western (Roman Catholic) divisions syngergistic since they both believed humanity had to respond to God's offer of salvation. The Western Roman Catholic Church as they continued following Augustinian determinism believed more and more like him. The Reformers being avid devotees of Augustine took his teachings even further.

When I have listened to Leighten Flowers teaching on what he calls "Provisionism" and it seems to me he is attempting to preserve free will in salvation while guarding the doctrine of OSAS. By contrast, Wesley who knew the ECF writings very well used what they taught to argue that while salvation has been provided for all mankind and ontained by faith the individual must continues walking in the faith until the very end of their lives to inherit full and final eternal life in the world to come.

This, I believe, is exactly what the ECF taught and it agrees perfectly with what the Apostles taught.
24 As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.…
(1 John 2:24-25)
If we continue believing the message of the Gospel we will continue walking by faith to abide and we will remain in the Father and Son and this ongoing union with Him is itself the definition of eternal life.

When you call Calvinism and Arminianism the two primary historical systems defining how divine grace and human will interact. You create a false dichotomy that did not apply to those who lived before Calvin and Arminius. You believe this dichotomy is universal and that it is a template by which we can measure soteriological truths.

When you take the position that salvation must be either initiated and secured unconditionally by God or left totally up to us you have assumed a false dichotomy. The Apostles did not say securing salvation was UNCONDITIONAL. They only said it could not be EARNED by the performance of MERITORIOUS WORKS. While Repentance and Faith are not meritorious but they are the necessary for the preparation of the soil to receive the seed of life.

Before a person would be willing to submit to such radical treatments as chemotherapy and radiation they first have to know they are in desperate need of treatment and that the only alternative is death. Knowledge of our sinful state is the result of CONVICTION which produces godly sorrow which leads to repentance. Only when we fully know our desperate condition will we reach out for the savior.

After Paul had tried over and over to be better he finally gave up and cried out: 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
(Romans 7:24)


There is no third option between monergism and synergism regarding the initial new birth or regeneration? Isn't there? What I have proposed is synergistic but but it is not about our earning salvation since none of us deserves it. However, to say the human will contributes nothing to this initial act is also untrue. There are conditions we must meet and only the Holy Spirit can bring us to that point. However, we can resist Him. The word itself warns us not to harden our hearts, resist or grieve the Spirit which assumes that we can. Though Israel had been given the deed to the Land and, though God's presence gave them the power to take it, they failed to do so because of their unbelief
The early church believed in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit from day one, but precise vocabulary like homoousios or Trinity wasn't formalized until later centuries. A lack of 16th- or 17th-century labels does not mean the underlying biblical concepts were absent.

Reformed theologians acknowledge that before the 5th-century Pelagian controversy, many early writers used ambiguous or synergistic language regarding human will. Augustine articulated a profound view of original sin, total inability, and unconditional election, showing that these truths were derived directly from Paul's epistles rather than invented out of whole cloth.

Reformed theology insists that final authority rests in the Word of God, not patristic consensus. Even if an early writer leaned toward a synergistic view of free will, biblical exegesis of texts in Romans and Ephesians remains the ultimate standard for truth.

The bible supports the Monergistic view that salvation is entirely a work of God, not human effort, meaning human failure cannot undo what God accomplished.
A person can have a temporary, emotional, or superficial profession of faith, be active in the church, and yet lack genuine spiritual rebirth (citing 1 John 2:19).
 
Oh no....
More than willing to concede that I have errors in my viewpoints....in fact I will insist that I must have them. I just cant find them. And I'm at a level of study that it's not worth the juice for the squeeze to discover them.
I have relationships that are much more important to nurture than kibble to dig for me to ponder upon.

However....you have hole big enough for a parade to March sideways through but with sufficient ego to believe you dont.

Theres the two main commandments you have yet to demonstrate that you follow....if anything you have proved just the opposite.

And the axiom is true: no one cares what you know if they dont know that you care for them.

Sorry dude but that's where we are at with you at this moment.

Fix that whole "I desire mercy over sacrifice" thingy Jesus was always harping about and then get back to us about your theology.
My Church has an Outreach Ministry, we go out on the streets and knock on doors. We don't seek anyone's approval. We're not looking to make new friends and we don't tell them that we love them or that "Jesus loves them".
Our only aim is to proclaim the gospel, most people hate the Lord Jesus so they don't what to hear about Him.

I'm not sure what you think "love your neighbour as you love yourself" means. But the best way to show love to your neighbour is to proclaim the gospel to them. Most of the time, they will hate you for it, but that's OK the world hated the Lord Jesus before it hated us.

We're not in the business of sugar coating or watering down the gospel message to make it acceptable for the masses. The gospel message has the stench of death (rotting corpse) to those who are perishing, but it is a sweet smelling aroma to Gods elect.

There's no way of telling who Gods elect are, so we proclaim the gospel to everyone without exception.

Most Church Ministers, don't have the courage to proclaim the truth of the gospel or to teach the whole counsel of God. They're afraid it might offend some, and cause them to walk out so they only focus on preaching about Gods love and they affirm and give their blessings to everyone regardless of the type of lifestyle they have.

The gospel message is bitter medicine, it won't win you many friends and if you're prepared to throw the truth of the gospel message under the bus, in order to show your love then that's not true love. If you had cancer and your Doctor didn't tell you about it because he didn't want to offend you, would he or she be acting in your best interest?
 
My Church has an Outreach Ministry, we go out on the streets and knock on doors. We don't seek anyone's approval. We're not looking to make new friends and we don't tell them that we love them or that "Jesus loves them".
Our only aim is to proclaim the gospel, most people hate the Lord Jesus so they don't what to hear about Him.

I'm not sure what you think "love your neighbour as you love yourself" means. But the best way to show love to your neighbour is to proclaim the gospel to them. Most of the time, they will hate you for it, but that's OK the world hated the Lord Jesus before it hated us.

We're not in the business of sugar coating or watering down the gospel message to make it acceptable for the masses. The gospel message has the stench of death (rotting corpse) to those who are perishing, but it is a sweet smelling aroma to Gods elect.

There's no way of telling who Gods elect are, so we proclaim the gospel to everyone without exception.

Most Church Ministers, don't have the courage to proclaim the truth of the gospel or to teach the whole counsel of God. They're afraid it might offend some, and cause them to walk out so they only focus on preaching about Gods love and they affirm and give their blessings to everyone regardless of the type of lifestyle they have.

The gospel message is bitter medicine, it won't win you many friends and if you're prepared to throw the truth of the gospel message under the bus, in order to show your love then that's not true love. If you had cancer and your Doctor didn't tell you about it because he didn't want to offend you, would he or she be acting in your best interest?
I agree, particularly about many church ministers not wanting to preach about less pleasant parts of the gospel, like sin. A member of a church in my town said, "We don't do sin at my church." As the conversation progressed, it became clear that what she meant was that sin was never mentioned in the preaching.
 
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My Church has an Outreach Ministry, we go out on the streets and knock on doors. We don't seek anyone's approval. We're not looking to make new friends and we don't tell them that we love them or that "Jesus loves them".
Our only aim is to proclaim the gospel, most people hate the Lord Jesus so they don't what to hear about Him.

I'm not sure what you think "love your neighbour as you love yourself" means. But the best way to show love to your neighbour is to proclaim the gospel to them. Most of the time, they will hate you for it, but that's OK the world hated the Lord Jesus before it hated us.

We're not in the business of sugar coating or watering down the gospel message to make it acceptable for the masses. The gospel message has the stench of death (rotting corpse) to those who are perishing, but it is a sweet smelling aroma to Gods elect.

There's no way of telling who Gods elect are, so we proclaim the gospel to everyone without exception.

Most Church Ministers, don't have the courage to proclaim the truth of the gospel or to teach the whole counsel of God. They're afraid it might offend some, and cause them to walk out so they only focus on preaching about Gods love and they affirm and give their blessings to everyone regardless of the type of lifestyle they have.

The gospel message is bitter medicine, it won't win you many friends and if you're prepared to throw the truth of the gospel message under the bus, in order to show your love then that's not true love. If you had cancer and your Doctor didn't tell you about it because he didn't want to offend you, would he or she be acting in your best interest?

The Gospel is a personal message of salvation available to all who hear it and receive it.

There is no "Good News" without a personal application .. that includes... God loves YOU and desires YOU to be reconciled to HIM!!
 
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My Church has an Outreach Ministry, we go out on the streets and knock on doors. We don't seek anyone's approval. We're not looking to make new friends and we don't tell them that we love them or that "Jesus loves them".
Our only aim is to proclaim the gospel, most people hate the Lord Jesus so they don't what to hear about Him.

I'm not sure what you think "love your neighbour as you love yourself" means. But the best way to show love to your neighbour is to proclaim the gospel to them. Most of the time, they will hate you for it, but that's OK the world hated the Lord Jesus before it hated us.

We're not in the business of sugar coating or watering down the gospel message to make it acceptable for the masses. The gospel message has the stench of death (rotting corpse) to those who are perishing, but it is a sweet smelling aroma to Gods elect.

There's no way of telling who Gods elect are, so we proclaim the gospel to everyone without exception.

Most Church Ministers, don't have the courage to proclaim the truth of the gospel or to teach the whole counsel of God. They're afraid it might offend some, and cause them to walk out so they only focus on preaching about Gods love and they affirm and give their blessings to everyone regardless of the type of lifestyle they have.

The gospel message is bitter medicine, it won't win you many friends and if you're prepared to throw the truth of the gospel message under the bus, in order to show your love then that's not true love. If you had cancer and your Doctor didn't tell you about it because he didn't want to offend you, would he or she be acting in your best interest?
So you believe harassing people until they claim they believe is the way to go about this eh?
Annoy them until they surrender!

Gotcha....

Kinda like the Soup Nazi except just cheap food for homeless who claim they believe.

I used to feel guilty about making them sing Victory in Jesus to be first in line for chow (loudest on key won)....but you do you.

I still think about the couple hundred guys singing that song every time we do it at church....
 
I agree, particularly about many church ministers not wanting to preach about less pleasant parts of the gospel, like sin. A member of a church in my town said, "We don't do sin at my church." As the conversation progressed, it became clear that what she meant was that sin was never mentioned in the preaching.
Of course that is not a church....that's a "Good Guy Club" misusing God's name.

But there is a different path from the two extremes.
 
Salvation is of the LORD. Monergism all the way. If it isn't monergism it isn't salvation.
 
My Church has an Outreach Ministry, we go out on the streets and knock on doors. We don't seek anyone's approval. We're not looking to make new friends and we don't tell them that we love them or that "Jesus loves them".
Our only aim is to proclaim the gospel, most people hate the Lord Jesus so they don't what to hear about Him.
Friend, if you do not include “Jesus loves you" in your gospel, you are not preaching the real Jesus. If you present a Jesus who is angry at the dirty rotten sinner you see in the doorway, it is no surprise they do not want to know Him or you.
 
I agree, particularly about many church ministers not wanting to preach about less pleasant parts of the gospel, like sin. A member of a church in my town said, "We don't do sin at my church." As the conversation progressed, it became clear that what she meant was that sin was never mentioned in the preaching.
The true gospel message is rejected by most who hear it because the Bible does not teach that Jesus died for every single individual without exception, nor that God saves or unconditionally loves everyone unto salvation. Instead, it teaches "Particular Atonement" (or Limited Atonement), meaning Christ died specifically to redeem the elect—those chosen by God from eternity past.

Christ's death on the cross was not a mere attempt to make salvation possible for all; it actually accomplished the redemption of those He intended to save.
Passages like John 10:15 state that Jesus lays down His life "for the sheep," rather than the whole human race.
If Christ paid the full penalty for the sins of every single person who ever lived, justice would demand that no one for whom He died could be sent to hell. Therefore, His substitutionary sacrifice is fully effective specifically for the elect.

Verses that use words like "all" or "the world" (e.g., John 3:16 or 1 John 2:2) are interpreted as meaning "all kinds of people" (both Jews and Gentiles) from every tribe and nation, rather than every individual human being.
If we are to faithfully proclaim the gospel, we need to make the distinction between God’s general benevolence (common grace) toward all creation and His specific, saving, and electing love directed toward His chosen people.
 
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No one with any spiritual sense would follow your teaching, because your theology is not based on Gods Word. You base your theology on your own private views and you rely on your own wisdom.

Private opinions are like noses, everybody has their own. If you can't correct me with Gods Word or find any faults in what I proclaim, then it reveals that you don't have anything of value to offer.
Here is one distinctuion between Calvinism and Arminianism

Duckduckgo AI -

  • Calvinism (often): God predestines individuals (the “elect”)—and Christ’s saving work is applied to them ina way that ensures salvation.
  • Arminianism (often): God predestines in view of foreknowledge—commonly phrased as God choosing who will be saved based on who will respond to grace (often described as conditional predestination).

I don’t hold to either of those views. So which am I? Calvinist or Arminian?
 
The Gospel is a personal message of salvation available to all who hear it and receive it.

There is no "Good News" without a personal application .. that includes... God loves YOU and desires YOU to be reconciled to HIM!!
We never say "God loves you" to anyone we meet, we don't know who God loves or who He hates.

Remember God hated Esau, before he was born and God doesn't cast those He loves into hell to suffer eternal torment.
 
So you believe harassing people until they claim they believe is the way to go about this eh?
Annoy them until they surrender!

Gotcha....

Kinda like the Soup Nazi except just cheap food for homeless who claim they believe.

I used to feel guilty about making them sing Victory in Jesus to be first in line for chow (loudest on key won)....but you do you.

I still think about the couple hundred guys singing that song every time we do it at church....
We don't harass anyone, we simply ask them who the Lord Jesus is to them. Their response reveals everything we need to know, before we proceed. If they say "yes I know about Him but I'm not interested in Him", then we move on.
But if someone claims to know Him and claims to believe in Him, we just ask a few questions to make sure they believe in the real Lord Jesus and not a fictitious one who can't save anyone.
 
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Remember God hated Esau, before he was born and God doesn't cast those He loves into hell to suffer eternal torment.
God did not say He hated Esau before Esau was born. Here is what God said about Esau before Esau was born:

Genesis 25:23 And the LORD said unto her [Rebekah], Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

This truth is corroborated in Romans 9:

Romans 9:11-12

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.


It was not until Malachi was written that God said He loved Jacob/hated Esau:

Malachi 1:2-3

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.


Malachi was written long after both Jacob and Esau were born, had lived out their lives, and were dead and buried.


.
 
"Who can resist God?"

The Jews could, and their fathers. Stephen said this, for example:

You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."

The people who ignore the higher powers established by God for another...

"Whosoever therefore resists the power, resists the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

Before the corruption of sin, the default setting of man was to follow the Spirit of God. Corruption, on its face, implies the existence of a state of purity. Yet, because of sin, that purity was lost for all people.

Also consider that Adam remained a son of God after his fall into sin. (Luke 3: "..Adam, the son of God.") God also kept Adam around for 930 years, presumably hundreds of years after his sin. This was to preserve the man, for a time, who was instructed directly by God about God's ways and life.

The benefit of salvation in Christ is an incorruptible life that is eternal; which was God's original intent with mankind.

So yes, man has the right and the ability to resist God. But what happens when they do not resist God? Men receive Him. But men do not receive Christ in their souls or flesh, they receive Him in their spirit. So it is not the will of the flesh that saves men. It is the will of the spirit given to man.

Men's spirits were given to all men by God. This is why no one may brag that they have received God in their own efforts: it's only by the spirit of God in them, placed there by God, that they can agree with God. This is like no one marvels when someone says "I flew all the way to Hawaii". We all know it was only on an aircraft that such a thing could be true.

Because the spirits of men are God's (He gave it) they return to Him when the man dies.

"Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it."


Water and the Word of God are paired in the scriptures so we can understand the substance of both. Like water, man may dam it up to prevent the flow of God's spirit in him. Man CAN resist God (as shown above). Yet, when man stops resisting God, the spirit of God in man will have His way. No, man cannot save himself just as man cannot fly to Hawaii himself. He may only let God's Spirit have His way in himself. What God promises is that "whosoever will" receives eternal life in Christ.

Lastly, God has already chosen man to be His heirs (indeed co-heirs with Christ). Chosen implies "as one chosen for the work" not only as one who is saved to go to heaven.

But again, man may resist God. The Bible even says so. Paul, as Saul, did. The Jews did. And others.
And certainly God may force someone to convert to belief against his or her will. Why not? We are all His creation. God promised to Ananias to show Saul what he must suffer to carry God's grace:

“This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings, and before the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

In this cases the issue is not about salvation to go to heaven but salvation from the corruption in the world SO THAT he or she may be employed in God's service to bring His word into the earth to others.

If we understood these things, our message to the world would change: we would have fewer debates with atheists (they don't exist) or agnostics (they are simply resisting God like Saul did). We would be more inclined to say things like "You know what to do (stop resisting God) but you refuse." and then walk away.

Evangelism would simply be showing the love of God to others ("..do the work of an evangelist...") and not some separate ministry.
Question:

Was man's spirit untouched by the fall or was it corrupted in the fall?
 
No one with any spiritual sense would follow your teaching, because your theology is not based on Gods Word. You base your theology on your own private views and you rely on your own wisdom.

Private opinions are like noses, everybody has their own. If you can't correct me with Gods Word or find any faults in what I proclaim, then it reveals that you don't have anything of value to offer.
Besides believing the Bible does not teach exhaustive divine foreknowledge, I also do not believe the Bible teaches original sin, i.e. that children are born corrupted with a sin nature, which both Calvinism and Arminianism teach. So, how do I fit into either calvinism Arminianism?
 
Ignorance may give you temporal comfort, but the day is fast approaching when it won't be accepted as a valid plea.
The measure by which you judge others will be the measure by which you are judged. Do you really want to apply a theological purity test to others who confess Jesus Christ as Lord?
 
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Friend, if you do not include “Jesus loves you" in your gospel, you are not preaching the real Jesus. If you present a Jesus who is angry at the dirty rotten sinner you see in the doorway, it is no surprise they do not want to know Him or you.
Really? When the apostles were preaching, do we read of them telling people that Jesus loves them? Certainly in the epistles they said things like that when addressing people who had already been saved, for example:

NKJV 1Jn 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.

I cannot think of one instance where they told unsaved sinners, "Jesus loves you."
 
I have no idea what I am . I do know that , many years ago , in my early twenties , I was into astrology and tarot , I genuinely did not c them as evil or occult .
One day I was walking down my local high street and noticed there was a ' Bible Exhibition ' in a church hall , I was drawn in . When I went home that day I felt as if I needed to get to know God so , within a couple of days I felt that I needed to buy a Bible and throw all my astrology / tarot stuff away , I did both those things and have never looked back .
None of that felt as if I was making a conscious decision , it was a feeling inside me , I felt I needed to do those things . What does that make me ? 🤷 Apart from extremely grateful and happy that God showed me such mercy and kindness 🙏❤️ .
 
We never say "God loves you" to anyone we meet, we don't know who God loves or who He hates.

Remember God hated Esau, before he was born and God doesn't cast those He loves into hell to suffer eternal torment.
God did not hate Esau before he was born. God hated Esau’s descendants because they had continually harassed Jacob’s descendants hoping to wipe them out. God said “Jacob I have loved but Esau I have hated” to Israel in the time of Malachi, not to Esau in Genesis.