Are you a monergist or a synergist?

[Aaron56]

When is man given the endowment?

Never bothered me. The source of their righteousness was Christ.

Anyone alive has been given this endowment. It is the 'nesh-aw-maw', the breath that God breathed into Adam.

Genesis 7 called it "the breath of the spirit of life".

"All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died."

 

[Aaron56]

But you have said that the man in his spirit can overcome the flesh. Where is this found in scripture?

No I did not. Man cannot overcome himself. Only when he quits resisting God can he receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit sufficient to overcome even the world. This is why there is much instruction to believing saints about how to continue on into maturity in Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

Anyone alive has been given this endowment. It is the 'nesh-aw-maw', the breath that God breathed into Adam.

Genesis 7 called it "the breath of the spirit of life".

"All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died."

So man himself possesses from birth all that is necessary for salvation? He just has to summon up the spirit in him?

 

[Cameron143]

No I did not. Man cannot overcome himself. Only when he quits resisting God can he receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit sufficient to overcome even the world. This is why there is much instruction to believing saints about how to continue on into maturity in Christ.

When does man receive the Holy Spirit?

 

[Aaron56]

So man himself possesses from birth all that is necessary for salvation? He just has to summon up the spirit in him?

More accurately: God has provided the means for salvation before man was even born. There is no "summoning up" anything. In fact, the spirit in man remains dormant until the Holy Spirit gives him new life.

The Lord Jesus Christ gives the Holy Spirit to whom He pleases. If we're talking about the normal course of man's salvation, man receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when he hears the gospel and believes.

A man's spirit is naturally inclined to believe God. Yet, because man resists God, his spirit remains ineffectual upon the life and choices of that man. When man ceases from resisting God (the evidence that is both within him and outside of him) he may hear God in his own spirit and believe God by that same spirit. This is not a cognitive exercise or exchange (Calvin was wrong) this is a spiritual exchange.

 

[Cameron143]

More accurately: God has provided the means for salvation before man was even born. There is no "summoning up" anything. In fact, the spirit in man remains dormant until the Holy Spirit gives him new life.

The Lord Jesus Christ gives the Holy Spirit to whom He pleases. If we're talking about the normal course of man's salvation, man receives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when he hears the gospel and believes.

A man's spirit is naturally inclined to believe God. Yet, because man resists God, his spirit remains ineffectual upon the life and choices of that man. When man ceases from resisting God (the evidence that is both within him and outside of him) he may hear God in his own spirit and believe God by that same spirit. This is not a cognitive exercise or exchange (Calvin was wrong) this is a spiritual exchange.

There is alot here I want to explore but because I'm working my questions have been haphazard and incongruent.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer and hopefully we can pick up later.

 

[Aaron56]

There is alot here I want to explore but because I'm working my questions have been haphazard and incongruent.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer and hopefully we can pick up later.

Of course. It's my pleasure. You are one for whom I am glad to give my full account when you ask me a question.

 

[Suze]

It's because you cant think of a word that rhymes with orange....
Silly silly.

Cringe , whinge , hinge , fringe

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Man initiates salvation by ceasing to resist?

If man is resisting Someone, then the Someone was the Initiator.

.

 

[Cameron143]

If man is resisting Someone, then the Someone was the Initiator.

.

A man can't resist God unknowingly?

 

[Journey_man]

The measure by which you judge others will be the measure by which you are judged. Do you really want to apply a theological purity test to others who confess Jesus Christ as Lord?

I replied to a member who chose to ignore systematic theology. They simply said they ignore it, and I simply reminded them that they won't be able to plead ignorance on Judgement Day.

Nobody will be given the option to remain indifferent or just ignore the gospel, you either obey it or you don't, but sitting on the fence won't secure entry into His Kingdom.

 

[Journey_man]

Tragic.

Yes, the lake of fire is tragic for those who are going to spend eternity in it.

 

[Journey_man]

No. I am suggesting that you need to re-think your statement:

Journey_man said:​

​

Remember God hated Esau, before he was born​

and I showed you what God said about Esau before he was born:

reneweddaybyday said:​

God did not say He hated Esau before Esau was born. Here is what God said about Esau before Esau was born:​

​

Genesis 25:23 And the LORD said unto her [Rebekah], Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.​

​

This truth is corroborated in Romans 9:​

​

Romans 9:11-12​

​

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )​

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.​

I do. The question now is ... do you believe that the Holy Bible is Gods Word or not?

If you believe that the Holy Bible is God's Word, then you must accept the fact that God did not say He hated Esau before Esau was born.

.

I notice you stopped at Romans 9:12 just before verse 13 which clearly states that "God hated Esau".

Verses 11-12 emphasize that God's choice of Jacob over Esau occurred before birth and entirely apart from any human works, merit, or foreseen faith. It proves that God chooses specific individuals for salvation solely based on His sovereign good pleasure.
The phrase "not of works, but of Him who calls" (v. 11) strips away any notion that human free will or moral achievement triggers God's saving grace. Election rests strictly on the initiator, God.

In verse 14 ("Is there unrighteousness with God?"), Paul anticipates human objection to perceived unfairness. and he explains that God owes no one mercy; withholding mercy (hate/reprobation in v. 13) is an act of justice, while bestowing mercy is an act of unmerited grace.

Verse 15 highlights that God's mercy is entirely discretionary. It proves that God functions as an absolute potter over clay, free to save whom He wills without violating human rights, because all humanity has fallen in Adam and deserves judgment.

 

[JohnDB]

Cringe , whinge , hinge , fringe

Those were good tries....

Co-ringe....if it was a word.

 

[JohnDB]

Cringe , whinge , hinge , fringe

True story....

For personal security we set up a password with my son. (We Know thousands of people he had never met)
In case we couldn't pick him up from school or a sitter or somewhere else we would send someone to pick him up for us and we would see and get him as soon as possible.

His job was to ask the person, "What's the password?" Regardless of school officials or other guardians (whom we don't trust....we don't like to trust anyone)

They were to reply with "Any word that rhymes with orange"

So...the day came my wife needed and conned a coworker into picking up our son from school....the school was called and told...my wife told this young intern about the password....but the girl was barely out of college...I'm not really sure she was out.... But the girl had confidence she could do this.

So she picks up my son...and he starts to go with her. But then he asks her for the password. She stalls....my son looks alarmed and stops....fixing to throw a fit and start yelling for help. She stammers and stalls and asked, "You sure you need a password?"

YES

This is when she has a total breakdown. She begins crying hysterically....and begins to blubber out, "I can't think of any word that rhymes with orange....and I had been trying on my way, the whole way over, to think of any and I keep drawing a blank."

My son pats her shoulder and tells her it will be okay.....he will go with her. She has such a look of relief on her face too.

It's much later that we explain the whole thing about the expression of "Words that rhyme with orange" to her....it's just one of those things.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

If man is resisting Someone, then the Someone was the Initiator.​

A man can't resist God unknowingly?

If man is resisting, then man is aware of something ... whatever it is that is being resisted. Otherwise, man is just acting on their own initiative, not "resisting" anything.

If a person lacks awareness ... is "unknowing" ... he or she is not resisting.

The point is that God reaches out (initiates) and mankind either resists or does not resist.

.

 

[PaulThomson]

Not true, because Arminianism doesn't teach that everyone is born dead in sin. It teaches that everyone is born partially dead and partially alive. This is why it teaches that fallen man still has the ability to freely chose to either believe the gospel or reject it.

Calvinism teaches that everyone is born dead in sin. As such they can't believe the gospel as it's foolishness to them. They remain dead in their sin forever, unless God regenerates them.

Both teach we are born corrupted. I did not mention born dead. Surely, "partially dead" is corrupted. And dead is also corrupted. The Bible teaches we are conceived and born innocent, and go astray from the innocence we were in the womb and at birth.

 

[PaulThomson]

You're an Arminian through and through, but like all good Arminians, you refuse to admit it. You guys have never offered an alternative view apart from these two. You talk about this third view as if it was a real or viable option, but you can't describe it because it doesn't exist outside of your imagination.

My understanding from scripture is that God does not know with 100% certainty what will happen in the future except a select category of things He predetermines and foretells in order to prove His omnipotence. He tests us to see what we will do. So, He does not know what we will do. So, I don't hold to any form of exhaustive divine foreknowledge. Both Calvinism and Arminianism do. This is therefore a third way. If you cannot understand how it is a third way, the problem is purely your own.

 

[PaulThomson]

If we told dirty rotten sinners that Jesus loves them, then we would by lying. We don't know who the Lord Jesus loves and who He hates. I don't want the blood of dirty rotten sinners on my hands, by telling them that Jesus loves them, only to find themselves being cast into the lake of fire by Jesus, while they beg for mercy.

What sort of love is it, to throw someone you love into the lake of fire to be tormented in flames for all eternity. Do you even care about the truth of the gospel, or is it too awful to proclaim to rotten sinners.

Where do you see the equivalent to "all eternity" mentioned in the Greek and Hebrew text of the Christian scriptures, friend ? Using fallible translations of God’s word to justify your hatred of fellow human beings is not wise.

 

[PaulThomson]

So why does man need to be born again? Why does he need to be a partaker of the divine nature?

Because, by believing lies and acting unjustly toward others after birth, we corrupt the innocent spirits we have as newborns .