The deadness of man is described in Romans 3:10 and following. I don't disagree that he makes choices, but none of them include God because he is at enmity with God...Romans 8:7.
Are you a monergist or a synergist?
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romans 1: 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
I can not argue with Paul
yes many do not
But I have spoken with many who understand it. But try to say God will forgive them anyway
Or say yes they understandit. But they are tryign to work to earn Gods forgiveness
Or they deny they are working to get forgiven, but everything they do shows it is what they are doing (phariseeism)
yes.. The hope this.. but you will see deep down inside. they really are afraid they might be wrong..
I have seen it many a time on a deathbed confession
I never stated God does not work. Romans 1 says God does a work.. no one has an excuse.
I just do not believe God keeps the truth from people so they will never chose..
I did. I assume you did
Now you can pump your chest and say God chose you and not others
or you can be like the tax collector and praise God for his mercy.
So...an unrighteous person who has no understanding and is not seeking God, who is unprofitable and is incapable of doing good, who tells lies and is deceitful, who curses and kills, who creates destruction and misery, who know not peace or fear God, just wake up one morning and just seek after God?
I do praise God for His mercy. And no one has mentioned election. Try to stay on topic. How does one at enmity with God choose God?
what does the word say about this person?
romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
we should just take God at his word
Notice that knowing about God through creation and conscience leads to suppression of truth. Where in the passage does anyone not suppress the truth and go on to become saved.
The man described in Romans 3:10ff always suppresses the truth. This is the natural fallen man who is at enmity with God. And unless God alters these individual's spiritual realities, they will remain dead in their trespasses and sins.
Unbelief is an active work, not the absence of belief. You will not find the word nonbeliever or nonbelief in the scriptures. Unbelief is a willful posture of resisting God. Man may, in his own strength, resist God.
This includes denying what he sees in the natural world. The laws of creation (its existence, expanse, synergy, etc.) can be perceived by the natural man and the natural man's senses. From this, natural man should deduce that God is real. Even unrighteous men are given this proof. This is what Paul wrote about in Romans:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness..."
Here: an active work of unbelief: suppressing the truth. Paul goes on to explain that the witness of God is even in their very being:
"..because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them."
Creation even testifies to the invisible traits of God, so all men are without excuse...
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."
These are not men who did not know God. They knew God through the testimony of creation. But they willfully unbelieved, and did not glorify God glory.
"..because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
Unbelief is the willful posture of resisting God: His testimony in creation and His testimony by the Spirit. Like it is written of the Jews here:
“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."
But, unbelieving Jews can be grafted back into Christ if they cease to unbelieve.
"And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again."
Good scripture, however I’d say knowing at some point in their past that what they are doing is sinful, is different than knowing they are spiritually dead, in need of a savior. The very fact that they reject the truth in unrighteousness, and continue or even get worse in their sinning, tells us they never believed.
And remember, these dudes have rejected the Truth so much, that their consciences are seared, and now, they don’t even think their abominations are sinful!
So the question always boils down to why do THEY reject Him and WE don’t?
Certainly not because we are smarter to understand, and certainly not because we live a more moral life than they.
Scripture tells us we were gifted the faith, that when we hear the Gospel, is activated, or as King Jimmy says, quickened.
Have no problem with any of that. I, in fact, concede the veracity of all of this. I even concede that all that needs to occur is for man to stop resisting.
Now...how does this transpire? What happens that causes an individual to cease resisting? He is at enmity with God. He is not and cannot be subject to the law of God. He is unrighteous, lacks understanding, and is running from God. He is a deceiver and liar. He is unprofitable and does not good. He curses and murders. His ways are destruction and misery. He knows nothing of peace and has no fear of God. How does this individual go from this estate to ceasing to resist God?
There is a difference between the flesh and the will.People use their freed will to respond. The natural man is opposed to the Spiritual things of God. Scripture says so.
The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!
We have a fleshly nature, also called the carnal nature that is all the things described above. It is unable to follow God. But God has give to us the Spirit.
A measure of faith, and mind that can reason.
We can will to follow the flesh or we can will to follow the Spirit.
The Spiritual power comes from God the ability to overcome comes from God. But the choice is ours.
Choose who you will follow. The flesh is a strong force in each person and without the Spirit we will always follow the selfish evil flesh.
But God has not left us without a Power to overcome the Flesh. We are the ones that choose who we will follow.
Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
......
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
......
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
When a fireman finally convinces a person in a burning house who was unwilling to leave to exit through a side window?
Does that person merit glory for obeying?
The fireman gets the glory.
The person does not.
The will can choose between the Spirit or the flesh.
The flesh does not know how to do good but the Spirit is the power of God in us.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5-10
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Scriptures clearly demonstrate that God has endowed every human being with the sacred power of choice, making us free moral agents who are responsible for our own destiny.
The flesh does not know how to do good but the Spirit is the power of God in us.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5-10
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Scriptures clearly demonstrate that God has endowed every human being with the sacred power of choice, making us free moral agents who are responsible for our own destiny.
From the very beginning, God established a government based on the consent of the governed. He does not desire a forced allegiance but seeks the service of love, which can only spring from a free heart.
One of the most direct appeals in Scripture is found in the words of Joshua: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" Joshua 24:15.
One of the most direct appeals in Scripture is found in the words of Joshua: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" Joshua 24:15.
The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14
The body of man has a brain. The soul of man has a mind. And the spirit of man has a mind. You described a carnal mind, one that is focused on the flesh.
“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
So, you are right to say salvation is not something man can choose: the mind of the soul of an unredeemed man wants nothing of God. Therefore, the process of entering into the rest of God is only through death. A dead man cannot resist God. But, while the man is alive and strong he may resist Him.
So God stacked the deck, if you will.
He gave us creation to witness to the unseen aspects of Himself: things the five senses of man can discern.
The Sinai Law was given to produce desperation: an impossible standard without the provision of a redeemer.
And finally “we see Jesus” who might “taste death for everyone”.
So the gospel, to a man brought to the end of himself, to the point of despair, who can no longer resist God, is that the death he is assured to suffer has already been paid. And, now that he can no longer posture to resist God, he can receive the gospel in the spirit God gave him.. not in the mind of his soul, the mind of his spirit. His spirit did not originate with him, his parents did not give it to him, no natural line can take credit for his spirit. It is God’s and God gave it to him. So, when man ceases to resist God, the spirit of the man may respond to God’s Spirit. Man takes no credit. In fact, the credit is all the Lord’s.
This is why Paul further taught that God, in this transaction between God and God, if you will, gives life to man’s mortal bodies. Redemption covers the whole man: body, soul, and spirit.
In the Garden of Eden, man was created in the image of God Genesis 1:26-27 and was placed in a position where he was absolutely free to choose his course of action.
God placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, giving man a point of decision. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" Genesis 2:17. For the command to have meaning, man had to have the capacity to either obey or disobey.
Adam and Eve exercised this freedom. Eve "saw that the tree was good for food... she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat" Genesis 3:6. This exercise of the will, though leading to sin, proves that man was not a machine or an automaton, but a free agent.
And this was before the fallen nature, they were perfect.
God placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, giving man a point of decision. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" Genesis 2:17. For the command to have meaning, man had to have the capacity to either obey or disobey.
Adam and Eve exercised this freedom. Eve "saw that the tree was good for food... she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat" Genesis 3:6. This exercise of the will, though leading to sin, proves that man was not a machine or an automaton, but a free agent.
And this was before the fallen nature, they were perfect.