Are You Pro-Life?

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Are you against capital punishment (pro-life)?

  • Total voters
    33
KimPetras said:
Deuteronomy 17:6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness.

Since many still pick and choose which old testament/covenant principles to follow, I'm curious if they throw that passage out the window. The majority of capital punishment cases, at the very least the contested ones, don't even have one witness, let alone two or three.
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I think im the one that has been debating your biblical position? I have not used the Old Testament law at all.... Romans 13 makes clear that Gods upholds the legal process and punishment ...
 
Mitspa said:
I think im the one that has been debating your biblical position? I have not used the Old Testament law at all.... Romans 13 makes clear that Gods upholds the legal process and punishment ...
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But I've already commented on the Romans scripture. You aren't bringing anything new to the discussion other than stating your opinion again.

I posted a new scripture I came across to gain insight, not to be brought back to a circular argument.
 
KimPetras said:
When Jesus said “he who is without sin may cast the first stone” he was teaching that while death may seem just, and even at times be just, there isn’t anyone alive who is worthy to tie the noose around their neck. Therefore, even if siding with the rationale that death is a just punishment in some cases, we arrive at the difficult truth that according to Jesus, neither you or I are perfect enough to serve in the role of executioner.
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There is a whole lot written about the law and its purpose..but none of it rejects what is written in Romans 13 and that God has ordained the judicial process and punishment of earthly government.
 
Mitspa said:
There is a whole lot written about the law and its purpose..but none of it rejects what is written in Romans 13 and that God has ordained the judicial process and punishment of earthly government.
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Christ stopping the execution isn't rejecting the judicial system for the time, which required the person to be executed?

The fact that the bible states it needs two or three witnesses doesn't go against modern standards for capital punishment cases?

I understand that you believe God ordains everything the government does, but when it conflicts with the word of God, you choose to follow man?
 
KimPetras said:
But I've already commented on the Romans scripture. You aren't bringing anything new to the discussion other than stating your opinion again.

I posted a new scripture I came across to gain insight, not to be brought back to a circular argument.
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There is nothing circular about a scripture that says in evident words that God upholds the judicial process of earthly government ...the fact that you want to ignore the scripture, does not change the truth and does not move me from the truth.
Your position that capital punishment is not biblical under the New Covenant ..is just wrong and its evident that its wrong to anyone that can read and believes the bible.
 
Mitspa said:
There is nothing circular about a scripture that says in evident words that God upholds the judicial process of earthly government ...the fact that you want to ignore the scripture, does not change the truth and does not move me from the truth.
Your position that capital punishment is not biblical under the New Covenant ..is just wrong and its evident that its wrong to anyone that can read and believes the bible.
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It's not evident when it's about 50/50 who agree/disagree with it. It's not evident as Christ stopped an execution. It's not evident as Christ perpetually taught "mercy" over "sacrifice". Christ made it almost a badge of honor to go against the judicial system of His day. Remember the law of the Sabbath?

It's not "ignoring" scripture to interpret it differently than you. If we don't agree with you, we don't know God or his Word or we are ignoring it. It couldn't be because we possibly disagree with your interpretation...
 
KimPetras said:
Christ stopping the execution isn't rejecting the judicial system for the time, which required the person to be executed?

The fact that the bible states it needs two or three witnesses doesn't go against modern standards for capital punishment cases?

I understand that you believe God ordains everything the government does, but when it conflicts with the word of God, you choose to follow man?
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That authority was from the law of Moses ...and the authority of heaven. Christ changed all that..the authority of the government of man to punish evil-doers with the sword is always upheld and clearly approved in the New Testament. Can you not read?
Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
Mitspa said:
That authority was from the law of Moses ...and the authority of heaven. Christ changed all that..the authority of the government of man to punish evil-doers with the sword is always upheld and clearly approved in the New Testament. Can you not read?
Ro 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
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Now you're asking if I can read... before asking if I could read I was ignoring it... before that I don't know God or His word.

When I've done the best of my ability to express why I don't agree with your interpretation, you seem to be ignoring that and sticking with silly questions/accusations.

It's not a fruitful discussion with you, yet again.
 
KimPetras said:
It's not evident when it's about 50/50 who agree/disagree with it. It's not evident as Christ stopped an execution. It's not evident as Christ perpetually taught "mercy" over "sacrifice". Christ made it almost a badge of honor to go against the judicial system of His day. Remember the law of the Sabbath?

It's not "ignoring" scripture to interpret it differently than you. If we don't agree with you, we don't know God or his Word or we are ignoring it. It couldn't be because we possibly disagree with your interpretation...
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I don't care if no one on this forum agreed ...the scripture is evident written in evident words and cannot be challenged. If you want to make a case for your interpretation? I will be glad to listen... but words have meanings and they mean what they mean.
 
Mitspa said:
I don't care if no one on this forum agreed ...the scripture is evident written in evident words and cannot be challenged. If you want to make a case for your interpretation? I will be glad to listen... but words have meanings and they mean what they mean.
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The word of God cannot be challenged... but guess what, no one is challenging the word of God, but your (Mitspa's) interpretation of it.
 
KimPetras said:
Now you're asking if I can read... before asking if I could read I was ignoring it... before that I don't know God or His word.

When I've done the best of my ability to express why I don't agree with your interpretation, you seem to be ignoring that and sticking with silly questions/accusations.

It's not a fruitful discussion with you, yet again.
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Yea because it comes down to this simple point..can you read and understand words? No need to debate anything if you cant read and understand evident words that God had written.
 
You keep using the word "evident". Maybe my English isn't as good as I'd like it to be, but I understand that to mean "clear" or "obvious". If 50% of people have a differing interpretation, maybe it's not as "evident" as you think it is. That's all I'm saying.
 
Look lady if you think your going to come on this forum and just ignore the clear reading of the bible and think folks wont challenge you? Your going to be very disappointed. If folks see you disregard the bible ..the honest folks on this forum are just going to ignore you.
 
KimPetras said:
You keep using the word "evident". Maybe my English isn't as good as I'd like it to be, but I understand that to mean "clear" or "obvious". If 50% of people have a differing interpretation, maybe it's not as "evident" as you think it is. That's all I'm saying.
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You don't read and understand the bible by taking polls ..you read the words and deal with facts of what is clearly being said..and then you yield to God and His Truth. Now sometimes there is some room for honest people to disagree ..this is not one of those cases.
 
KimPetras said:
The word of God cannot be challenged... but guess what, no one is challenging the word of God, but your (Mitspa's) interpretation of it.
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Make a biblical explanation of how that passage don't read and say what it clearly says? If your really trying to have a biblical discussion..discuss what is written in this passage and explain why words don't really mean what words really mean.
 
Try explaining how God don't uphold the use of the sword to punish evildoers...

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
Lets break it down...

For he is the minister of God

But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

 for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 
I assume you're German? I'm not sure what the laws in Europe are, I imagine they are more liberal when it comes to the death penalty, but I am against executing people. I actually wrote a letter to Arnold Swarzanegger when he was the govenor of my state (California) asking his views on it and he (or most likely his staff) wrote me back a letter saying he believes it to remain a state issue. How I feel about this personally is different though than how I want the government to deal with things. In the bible God killed all kinds of people, the guilty and the innocent. Look at the great flood. Imagine all the innocent babies that drowned while Noah was riding the waves. The first born children in Egypt during the plauges. All that stuff. When Jesus came along he said to turn the other cheek. No more an eye for an eye stuff. But at the end of the day the government shouldn't be in the buisness of killing people. It serves no puropse. It's never been shown to reduce crime. Every time some kid goes on a killing spree here in the USA it's usually in a state that already has the death penalty. Arizona, California, Colorado, etc. If someone feels revenge is the ultimate justice, than that's fine but most people are not going to get the closure they're looking for anyway. I'm for taking anyone serving a life sentence and sending them back to the penal colony known as Australia.
 
Nautilus said:
no one said anything close to that, but continue following the sabbath and not eating pork if it makes you feel better
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You just said, since you don't think a Sabbath rest is important. (Cute how you passed it off as my problem though.)
 
KimPetras said:
We are talking about "innocent" in respect to the crime they alleged committed. Yes, babies are innocent, they didn't do anything wrong, and people on death row have been innocent and are innocent. I read a study that about 4% of people in US death row are more than likely innocent.

The last time I checked, putting potentially innocent people to death isn't the only way a state can punish people. I'm not sure why people believe it is the only form of justice.
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If innocent and stuck in prison anyway, frankly I'd rather be put to death than spend 20-50 years of my life constantly terrified of the people around me or have to make the choice to kill them to save my own life or to stop being raped. There is another life after death and I know where I'm going. It is joy. Why do we keep pretending that staying alive as long as possible in this life is THE only answer?

I do love how people assume staying alive in prison isn't "cruel and unusual punishment."

And, statistically speaking, a potential percentage isn't a percentage. Charlie Manson should have been killed deades ago, but because some person somewhere MIGHT be innocent, he lives. His victims families still live with that every day.

I have not quit on believing God's word speaks of what to do if a person murders someone. I understand the full law on that one, and, no, Charlie Manson does NOT qualify for a city of refuge. He qualifies with "should be dead already."
 
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