Ask an Atheist

[doseofreality]

My mother stroke, my mother in law, brain cancer. My self asthma and alcoholism, my father from fused vertebrae caused by lightning. whom science said that he would not live to be 40 and would be completely doubled over he will be 79 in August. My second son who was born with fluid in his lungs and science said he wouldn't make and if he did he would be debilitated all his life just signed with a D1 college on baseball scholarship. all by the power of God that defied science. My brothers marriage where adultery was involved. Healed by God at church. My friend who was confined to a wheelchair and at church ran around the church and sold the wheel chair.

You haven't seen any of this, then find a church that still believes in the power of God.

This is your interpretation of these events, however, this is not extraordinary evidence for the supernatural.

Thankfully science or medical diagnosis can be wrong, because its based on averages.
God did not defy science as much as these people beat the odds.

The point is whether it was God or not the two are indistinguishable.

 

[Kerry]

Well when its in your face, you know its God. My father by the way, works to this day. We have our own business which is designing and developing systems that make diesel engines run on a mixture of natural gas and diesel. and we have the only certified EPA system that allows it in the U.S. My 79 year old father still comes to work everyday at 6:00 am and still tries to tell me what to do. I think I know a little bit about science as the engineers have told me what I can't do, But I through the wisdom of God tell them what we will do.

 

[Kerry]

and 98% of the time he is right.

 

[Atwood]

Greetings Josh,

I know as a skeptic you don't want us to believe things just becs you say so; you want us to demand proof before we accept things. So permit me if you have proof that:

1) The documentation of his life is really shotty?
2) Some historian have given evidence for why such a man never existed?
3) He lived a normal life?
4) He was turned into the Bible character?
5) Supernatural claims were attached?
6) He was probably written in?
7) Prophecies can be fulfilled by "written in"?
8) Christianity is more appealing that OT religion?
9) Christianity is was designed to be politically correct for its times?
10) Christianity advocated a morality popular for its times?

Or do you just take these things by faith (in the modern perverted sense of faith as credulity without evidence)?

 

[Kerry]

I have never went wrong with faith in the cross. When I have went wrong my faith was somewhere else. My livelihood comes from faith in the cross.

 

[Atwood]

Josh, how do you know that:
1) "he wasn't divine"?
2) Pascal's wager fails for its own reasons?
3) Jesus has only the bible to support his existence?
4) The Bible is "only the bible"?
5) The documents don't support that He did what He did?
6) There are lots of physical and extra biblical documents supporting the existence of Pilate and Caiaphas in comparison with the documents for Christ.
7) The records of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, Jude, Tacitus, and Josephus are insignificant.
8) Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and Jude are to be unified and dismissed as "only the bible"?
9) Josephus and Tacitus are "not much else"?
10) There is not a continuous output of literature on Christ following the sources listed above throughout history?

Do you have proof for all that?

 

[Kerry]

Good nite yall it is way way past my bedtime.

 

[doseofreality]

Josh, how do you know that:
1) "he wasn't divine"?
2) Pascal's wager fails for its own reasons?
3) Jesus has only the bible to support his existence?
4) The Bible is "only the bible"?
5) The documents don't support that He did what He did?
6) There are lots of physical and extra biblical documents supporting the existence of Pilate and Caiaphas in comparison with the documents for Christ.
7) The records of Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, Jude, Tacitus, and Josephus are insignificant.
8) Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, and Jude are to be unified and dismissed as "only the bible"?
9) Josephus and Tacitus are "not much else"?
10) There is not a continuous output of literature on Christ following the sources listed above throughout history?

Do you have proof for all that?

Scholars disagree about the historicity of Jesus.
However, most evidence does seem to support someone named Jesus or Christ actually existed.

'Did Jesus Exist?' A Historian Makes His Case : NPR

8 Reasons Jesus Definitely Existed - Listverse

As far as his divinity or any of the miracles, there are no contemporary accounts or historical evidence.
The gospels were written many years after the fact.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Scholars disagree about the historicity of Jesus.
However, most evidence does seem to support someone named Jesus or Christ actually existed.

'Did Jesus Exist?' A Historian Makes His Case : NPR

8 Reasons Jesus Definitely Existed - Listverse

As far as his divinity or any of the miracles, there are no contemporary accounts or historical evidence.
The gospels were written many years after the fact.

^ what? If one must ask if Jesus exist, then they would also ask what is Christianity?

Yes we have records, but because it's rejected by secularists, it's deny by them.

 

[doseofreality]

^ what? If one must ask if Jesus exist, then they would also ask what is Christianity?

Yes we have records, but because it's rejected by secularists, it's deny by them.

I was replying to the post by @Atwood, asking for proof that Jesus was not historical.

What records are you referring to? It shouldn't make a difference, if the records are valid and reliable then they should be accepted by everyone. Unfortunately, both sides interpret evidence with a bias at times.

 

[Pozessed]

As an atheist, do you conclude that a Creator of the universe certainly does not exist?

 

[Spokenpassage]

I was replying to the post by @Atwood, asking for proof that Jesus was not historical.

What records are you referring to? It shouldn't make a difference, if the records are valid and reliable then they should be accepted by everyone. Unfortunately, both sides interpret evidence with a bias at times.

I know I jumped in the right time didn't I?

Well I already know you will deny scripture, but just think if we didn't have it, then you guys would have something to boast against us. But since eye witness have not only helped recorded the accounts, but that it still has the same influence as, or even more, than the early church. It's quite clear that the bible says people will mock us.

 

[doseofreality]

As an atheist, do you conclude that a Creator of the universe certainly does not exist?

Thats a loaded question...

I do not conclude that at all.

I conclude that an eternal omniscient, omnipotent, personal conscious Creator of the universe is highly improbable.

 

[doseofreality]

I know I jumped in the right time didn't I?

Well I already know you will deny scripture, but just think if we didn't have it, then you guys would have something to boast against us. But since eye witness have not only helped recorded the accounts, but that it still has the same influence as, or even more, than the early church. It's quite clear that the bible says people will mock us.

I do not deny all scripture, and your point is well taken, if there was no bible written there would be no christians at all.

The accounts are not written by eye-witness, they are second, third hand accounts. The fact that someone says they received an eye-witness account is hearsay.

 

[Spokenpassage]

I do not deny all scripture, and your point is well taken, if there was no bible written there would be no christians at all.

The accounts are not written by eye-witness, they are second, third hand accounts. The fact that someone says they received an eye-witness account is hearsay.

This is why I said 'eye witnesses who have not only helped recorded the accounts'. Luke and Mark didn't just make up stuff, their information is from different eye witnesses that helped them. The same can be said with the other two in some historical accounts that they personally were not in.

 

[doseofreality]

This is why I said 'eye witnesses who have not only helped recorded the accounts'. Luke and Mark didn't just make up stuff, their information is from different eye witnesses that helped them. The same can be said with the other two in some historical accounts that they personally were not in.

Right, hearsay. You assume they got their information from eye-witnesses. Or just as easily someone who was reporting could have falsely claimed to be an eye-witness.

I am not saying they made stuff up, but the reliability of the account comes into question especially when dealing with extraordinary claims.

 

[Pozessed]

Thats a loaded question...

I do not conclude that at all.

I conclude that an eternal omniscient, omnipotent, personal conscious Creator of the universe is highly improbable.

It may be a loaded question, but it proved that you're not bigoted and you have the intellect to understand how to answer the question.

I'd also like to inquire whether you believe infinity to be probable or improbable in our universe, do you sway towards the idea of multiverses being probable? How about extraterrestrial life, do you believe aliens are statistically probable?

 

[Spokenpassage]

Right, hearsay. You assume they got their information from eye-witnesses. Or just as easily someone who was reporting could have falsely claimed to be an eye-witness.

I am not saying they made stuff up, but the reliability of the account comes into question especially when dealing with extraordinary claims.

I don't assume, it's just a fact. I don't see how that was heresy? Before any NT scriptures was written, eye witnesses (who knows how many) orally shared it with people. What the apostles preached of the true gospel was scriptural, no doubt about it.

Well if we want to talk about extraordinary things, how did this belief stretch so far too the ends of the earth? Did not Jesus ordained the apostles, and told us to teach everywhere, even the remotest parts of the earth? Everything the bible has been saying is fulfilling itself, it's quite clear. It even mentioned the apostasy, which is increasing.

 

[doseofreality]

I don't assume, it's just a fact. I don't see how that was heresy? Before any NT scriptures was written, eye witnesses (who knows how many) orally shared it with people. What the apostles preached of the true gospel was scriptural, no doubt about it.

Well if we want to talk about extraordinary things, how did this belief stretch so far too the ends of the earth? Did not Jesus ordained the apostles, and told us to teach everywhere, even the remotest parts of the earth? Everything the bible has been saying is fulfilling itself, it's quite clear. It even mentioned the apostasy, which is increasing.

I'm sorry you are right, I should not have used the word "assume" there.
Yes eye-witnesses passed on the stories orally.
No possibility for embellishment maybe?

Thats the difference, you take on faith that God preserved the testimony so as to be accurate when written down.
I see no reason to believe that.

As far as the argument that its true because its believed all over the world by millions of people.
Be careful, Exhibit A:
Mormon Church ---> One of fastest growing religions all over the world...you don't believe their crazy stories do you?

 

[Spokenpassage]

I'm sorry you are right, I should not have used the word "assume" there.
Yes eye-witnesses passed on the stories orally.
No possibility for embellishment maybe?

Thats the difference, you take on faith that God preserved the testimony so as to be accurate when written down.
I see no reason to believe that.

As far as the argument that its true because its believed all over the world by millions of people.
Be careful, Exhibit A:
Mormon Church ---> One of fastest growing religions all over the world...you don't believe their crazy stories do you?

I'm not talking about numbers, but that the great commission is being fulfilled. By the way, in mentioning Mormonism your still proving the bible's point, apostasy is increasing...