At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?
- Thread starter Beckworth
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So, Jesus reviews the churches, tells them what He has against them, commands them to repent, makes promises to the victors, but everyone gets a trophy no matter what?
Are you familiar with some of the historical work that says it looks like, for example, that a lampstand was in fact removed in a certain part of the world?
1John5:4 is elaborating on loving God which is obeying God (keeping/guarding/obeying God's commandments). The victors do what God says, and God rewards the victors, and those rewards in Rev are some very significant things. This gets back to your view that commands are just descriptive. I think they're prescriptive and then descriptive of the obedient - the victors - but not all are victors because not all are faithfully obedient functioning properly under Grace.
The world theorized that every kid should get a trophy. Look where that got us in short order.
Are you familiar with some of the historical work that says it looks like, for example, that a lampstand was in fact removed in a certain part of the world?
1John5:4 is elaborating on loving God which is obeying God (keeping/guarding/obeying God's commandments). The victors do what God says, and God rewards the victors, and those rewards in Rev are some very significant things. This gets back to your view that commands are just descriptive. I think they're prescriptive and then descriptive of the obedient - the victors - but not all are victors because not all are faithfully obedient functioning properly under Grace.
The world theorized that every kid should get a trophy. Look where that got us in short order.
Pick up some context from the thread. AI analysis was submitted. I responded.
AI actually did a good job with the analysis of the Greek phrase I asked it about. It simply compiled some data from some Greek language resources and presented it. I could have copied and pasted those points from an advanced Greek Grammar. No need as AI got them for me and I know them from Greek textbooks.
AI actually did a good job with the analysis of the Greek phrase I asked it about. It simply compiled some data from some Greek language resources and presented it. I could have copied and pasted those points from an advanced Greek Grammar. No need as AI got them for me and I know them from Greek textbooks.
You obscure the reality that commands are made to human volition. Some choose to abide and endure. Some don't.
This is simply the nobody can ever fall theory which makes commands and warnings just descriptive and ultimately negates human volition because it simply cannot ever choose to reject God once it has accepted Him. I simply see God as honoring men's volition and making clear to them that their volition for Him must abide and endure.
This is simply the nobody can ever fall theory which makes commands and warnings just descriptive and ultimately negates human volition because it simply cannot ever choose to reject God once it has accepted Him. I simply see God as honoring men's volition and making clear to them that their volition for Him must abide and endure.
This is your theory. Obedience is not a work just as Faith is not a work. Both are a mentality that do work outwardly.
You'll need to interact with several other things I've posted re: the interrelation of Faith and Obedience if you want to discuss your theories. I'm way past looking at this at a surface theoretical level. Even AI has shown how Faith and Obedience terminology in Greek can be legitimately interpreted as combined and virtually synonymous.
Obedience to Law apart from Faith in God is simply a pseudo faith and dead works. The Pharisees you speak of rejected Christ. Their faith was pseudo-faith + dead works. Jesus charged them with not even having Genuine Faith in God or they would have believed Him whom God sent.
You'll need to interact with several other things I've posted re: the interrelation of Faith and Obedience if you want to discuss your theories. I'm way past looking at this at a surface theoretical level. Even AI has shown how Faith and Obedience terminology in Greek can be legitimately interpreted as combined and virtually synonymous.
Obedience to Law apart from Faith in God is simply a pseudo faith and dead works. The Pharisees you speak of rejected Christ. Their faith was pseudo-faith + dead works. Jesus charged them with not even having Genuine Faith in God or they would have believed Him whom God sent.
What Jesus requires of His people He lives out through them as they are yoked to Him. You don't understand how this works because the experience is foreign to you.
The only volition exercised by believers is whether to live in the power of God or the power of self.
Living in one's own strength will end in failure and chastisement. Living in God's strength will always be successful and yields love, joy, peace, etc.
The only volition exercised by believers is whether to live in the power of God or the power of self.
Living in one's own strength will end in failure and chastisement. Living in God's strength will always be successful and yields love, joy, peace, etc.
Nonsense. With volition we are choosing at every instance to do or to reject the leading and guiding of the Spirit and remaining in the Faith-Obedience of our Lord who is in us. This is the prescriptive reality of commands and warnings. It's why we are commanded not to grieve and suppress/extinguish the Spirit. This cooperative relationship must be guarded and protected, and we are commanded to do our part and to help one another do the same. Under grace we are commanded and assisted. That's why Paul warned about departing from grace. Apart from Him we can do nothing. We're commanded to not be apart from Him.
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“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
“With volition we are choosing at every instance to do or to reject the leading and guiding of the Spirit and remaining in the Faith-Obedience of our Lord who is in us.”
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12-13 KJV
“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
…This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
….If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
Galatians 5:13, 16, 18, 25 KJV
yes daily we choose to walk in the spirit that’s what keeps us from abiding and existing in the flesh nature such as this
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
There are real serious consequences
Our choice is singular stick with Jesus with all our strength listen to him follow after him but actually learn what it is he’s saying because it’s not the law of Moses his doctrine is unique.
Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
“With volition we are choosing at every instance to do or to reject the leading and guiding of the Spirit and remaining in the Faith-Obedience of our Lord who is in us.”
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:12-13 KJV
“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
…This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
….If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
Galatians 5:13, 16, 18, 25 KJV
yes daily we choose to walk in the spirit that’s what keeps us from abiding and existing in the flesh nature such as this
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
There are real serious consequences
Our choice is singular stick with Jesus with all our strength listen to him follow after him but actually learn what it is he’s saying because it’s not the law of Moses his doctrine is unique.
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