At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

[greenonions]

Is it at the point of faith? Satan would have you believe that’ faith” is the “end”, when actually, it is the beginning. Is it when we repent? When we actually “confess” Christ seems like a good place

We know Jesus shed His blood in His death on the cross. Romans 6:3, God says, Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His DEATH?Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into DEATH that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should also walk in newness of life.”

From this scripture, I would say that we come into contact with the blood of Jesus when we are baptized into His death ( where His blood was shed).

This is in perfect harmony with what Ananias tells Saul in Acts 22:16–“ And now, what are you waiting for? Arise, and be baptized and WASH AWAY YOUR SINS.”

Jesus saw the faith of the paralytic and his friends and said “Son, your sins are forgiven you” (Mark 2:5 NKJV). Jesus said to the sinful woman who anointed His feet and washed them: “Your faith has saved you” (Luke 7:50). Salvation came to the house of Zaccheus when he declared that he would to give half of his money to the poor and to restore fourfold to those he wrongfully took money by false accusation (Luke 19:8-9). These three people were forgiven and saved when they believed Jesus, not when they were baptized. The forgiveness of sins means that Jesus' blood was applied to them.

Being baptized is the right thing to do. But I don't think that is the point in time when Christ's blood is applied.

 

[studier]

I get that, but what exactly are the mechanics? Atheists can do a lot of what a Christian can do. Feed the poor, clothe the naked, give generously etc, so what's the difference?

When I see words like "mechanics" it brings to mind the man I would, above all others, recognize as my Pastor. Do you, like others here, learn from RBThieme?

Your question is a very good one.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anything, it's just ... I was not raised A Christian and when I eventually came to Church it was statements like the above that held absolutely no meaning to me because it was never explained how we do that. It all became nothing more than a bunch of platitudes. A sort of "have faith my child" type thing. My response would be "ok, what is faith? how do I get it? how do I know when I have it? How do I then utilise it?" etc. I wanted to know the details and the reality was (and is still) most Christians don't know the details.

Honestly, I don't mind if you don't answer because I realise the scope might be too much for this media. It concerns me you keep using this "Faith/Obedience" terminology as I have seen so many of my brothers and sisters end up "doing the word" (James 1:22) in the flesh and not the Spirit. It gains them nothing except another "stripe" across their backs.

For the most part, I think these debates arise because there is that impression when people start talking "obedience" there is a concern that they are talking "works of the flesh". Whether that is true or not can only really been seen in the fruit of the individual.

If one is walking in faith, one is walking in reality for faith is based on truth. Anything outside that is insanity and there can be no obedience in that. Hence, what more does one need other than faith?

FWIW, I wasn't raised Christian either. I didn't come to Christ until well into my thirties. Your comment about the meaningless statements is well appreciated. I tend to try to encapsulate a lot of information in a few words when I'm discussing with Christians who discuss on a media like this as if we all understand things to a certain degree.

There are many Scriptural reasons I bring obedience into the discussions about Faith and I'm happy to discuss it to whatever depth we can get to. And please see that when I write Faith/Obedience both words are included so I am never suggesting anything apart from Faith. Simply put, and I've said it many times in many ways, no one ultimately believes Jesus is Christ or God is God if they don't do what He says.

How about you answer my first question above and elaborate on "mechanics" to begin? Also, based upon your last question, what is "Faith"?

 

[mailmandan]

This is simply another term for apostasy does not exist.

There is no need for warnings about something that cannot be real.

Its like "repent or perish".

Why warn people who believe to repent since those who believe have by your reasoning already repented?

In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. The warning is real and folks who need to repent or perish are not saved believers. Repentance precedes believe him concerning the way of righteousness/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21)

 

[TrustandObey]

In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. The warning is real and folks who need to repent or perish are not saved believers. Repentance precedes believe him concerning the way of righteousness/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21)

So is repentance a one time thing?

Does "repent or perish" only apply to the lost?

Is it that you cannot lose your repentance just as you cannot lose your salvation?

 

[TrustandObey]

Jesus saw the faith of the paralytic and his friends and said “Son, your sins are forgiven you” (Mark 2:5 NKJV). Jesus said to the sinful woman who anointed His feet and washed them: “Your faith has saved you” (Luke 7:50). Salvation came to the house of Zaccheus when he declared that he would to give half of his money to the poor and to restore fourfold to those he wrongfully took money by false accusation (Luke 19:8-9). These three people were forgiven and saved when they believed Jesus, not when they were baptized. The forgiveness of sins means that Jesus' blood was applied to them.

Being baptized is the right thing to do. But I don't think that is the point in time when Christ's blood is applied.

We cannot claim or follow the promises given to individuals. The promise that is given to us is in Acts 2.

Acts 2:37-41 NIV
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do? Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

There are many promises given to many people in the Bible but to simply claim that they apply to us is unwise.

 

[mailmandan]

So is repentance a one time thing?

Does "repent or perish" only apply to the lost?

Is it that you cannot lose your repentance just as you cannot lose your salvation?

People can repent about other specific things after they are saved, but we only repent (change our mind) and believe the gospel then become saved once. We are born again only once and not over and over again. Jesus is the door. (John 10:9) He is not a revolving door.

 

[Lamar]

People can repent about other specific things after they are saved,

"Can repent" or must repent?

Jesus is the door. (John 10:9) He is not a revolving door.

A door that does not allow egress is a trap.

 

[studier]

A door that does not allow egress is a trap

Smiling.

 

[mailmandan]

"Can repent" or must repent?

Is eveything must or else with you? If that's the case then anything short of sinless perfection will end in one's demise.

A door that does not allow egress is a trap.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is a trap door?

 

[mailmandan]

Smiling.

Trap doors make you smile?

 

[Lamar]

Is eveything must or else with you? If that's the case then anything short of sinless perfection will end in one's demise.

It was your choice of words. Just answer the question. This is not about "sinless perfection" just a heart willing to obey.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is a trap door?

What I am suggesting is that the door is not locked behind us but clearly this is what you are suggesting.

We are free to leave out the same door that we come in, it's called free choice. If you are a Calvinist you would not understand.

 

[Lamar]

Trap doors make you smile?

If applied to the door that Jesus is behind then yes it is rather silly to think that Jesus locks the door behind us.

 

[Lamar]

Smiling.

I am past smiling. I shot root beer through the nose.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

At what point in our salvation is the blood of Christ applied?

At the point when in FAITH we Repent and call out to God. Everything thereafter is the RESULT of having been Born Again.

 

[mailmandan]

It was your choice of words. Just answer the question. This is not about "sinless perfection" just a heart willing to obey.

Genuine believers are willing to obey from a regenerate heart. It's about the direction of our walk and not the perfection of our walk. In Luke 17:3-4, we read - Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” This brother is not repenting to get saved over and over again but for sinning against another brother. The brother is already saved. That is distinct from choosing to repent and believe the gospel upon conversion. (Acts 11:17,18; 15:7-9)

What I am suggesting is that the door is not locked behind us but clearly this is what you are suggesting.

It would not need to be locked and genuine believers would have no interest in looking for an exit door out of heaven.

We are free to leave out the same door that we come in, it's called free choice. If you are a Calvinist you would not understand.

When the saints receive their glorified bodies will some still use their free will to do a nose dive out of heaven and straight into hell? At what point does becoming born again and a new creation in Christ make any difference at all in your theology? I'm not a Calvinist but if you are a works-salvationist/self preservationist then I would not expect you to understand.

 

[studier]

It would not need to be locked and genuine believers would have no interest in looking for an exit door out of heaven.

Then why lock it by saying we can't walk away?

 

[studier]

I am past smiling. I shot root beer through the nose.

Yes, I get the sentiment.

 

[mailmandan]

Then why lock it by saying we can't walk away?

Why would a genuine saint want to walk away? That would be insanity and is unfathomable to me! That is the last thing on my mind. Eternal life with the Lord means everything to me!

 

[Lamar]

Genuine believers

I hear this term used frequently. It seems that its purpose is a panacea for any question dealing with the existence of apostasy.

No matter what the question is the answer is always, "well he never really believed anyway" or "he was never a genuine believer like us".

 

[studier]

Why would a genuine saint want to walk away? That would be insanity and is unfathomable to me! That is the last thing on my mind. Eternal life with the Lord means everything to me!

This is the point, mailmandan, the door doesn't need to be locked, and it isn't. You're free to leave but you [likely] won't. And you should be doing everything you can to encourage others to remain with you and to explain why and how to do so and how to keep striving for the 100-fold productivity.