Atheism (sorry for another one of these posts, there seems to be a lot of them)

[betrys]

It seems a precedence has been set that atheists should announce their atheism if they want to stay on this site, so I suppose I will do so as well.
I am an atheist. I'm not looking to change this.

I'd like to start off by saying that I'm not here to cause trouble, which is usually assumed (especially considering my last statement.) I'm not here to debate, although I will if you want me to. I respect your beliefs, and I hope you will all extend that respect unto me.

Now that all the formalities are out of the way: HI!
My name is Betrys, I'm 16 years old. I enjoy science and art, and I'll read anything I can get my hands on. I'm not happy with the current state of our society and I believe that people are beautiful without silicone. I've moved around a lot, and I'd like to believe that I've learned a lot along the way.
I like talking to people who disagree with me, and I like doing it on friendly terms. Hopefully, this will be a learning experience for all of us.

Pleasure to meet you all.
--Betrys

 

[betrys]

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. In my haste posting this, I forgot the entire reason I made this account in the first place! Questions!

1. Personally, what do you guys get out of Christianity?
2. Were you raised in a Christian home?
3. Do you have a literalist interpretation of the Bible?

I don't know too many Christians in real life (who are willing to talk about religion to me, anyway) so I was hoping I could find a place online to discuss. Yeah.

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

1. Personally, what do you guys get out of Christianity?

This is a hard question to give a simple answer to. "Christianity," or being united to Christ, gives us a new identity. So it's like being an entire person. But it's also a process of becoming that which you're supposed to be.

There are some things that are part of a person's identity which are unessential. Like being American or British. I reckon I could be Canadian and still be the same person that I am (although a lot less cool). Not much would change about me. But some things are more essential to who we are. If I were actually born a girl in 13th century China I would have a substantially different identity. Our relationship with Christ is one of these things which is more essential (or the most essential) aspect.

This is speaking idealistically of course. Many of us fail to find our identity in Christ. That's part of the becoming.

2. Were you raised in a Christian home?

Sort of.

3. Do you have a literalist interpretation of the Bible?

This is sort of vague. One could say that a literal interpretation of the Bible is understanding the Bible how it was intended to be understood. So the Bible sometimes uses metaphors and these metaphors are not intended to be understood "literally" but metaphorically. So if we can agree that understanding the metaphors as metaphors, the poetry as poetry, the prose as prose, etc. is a literal understanding then I have a "literalist interpretation" of the Bible. But that just means I seek to understand the Bible the way it was meant to be understood. And who wouldn't agree that we should do that?

But usually when someone asks if they take the Bible literally they have something else in mind, which is why I say it's sort of vague.

 

[betrys]

Hi
Thank you so much for replying! Honestly, I'm surprised you did, considering all of my questions were vague (I'm going back and forth from a big English project and exploring this website, so my mind isn't 100 percent here).

I live in the deep south, so most of the "literalist interpretations" I've heard includes a Young Earth, a real, flesh-and-bones Adam and Eve, and includes all the miracles and everything. Which fascinates me, but I find hard to understand.
I do quite like you definition though--it sounds much nicer then the usual "Everything in this book is a historic event," which I get down here a lot.
Anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

What do you mean by a new identity? (I know that is a broad question, but I feel I've only learning the superficial aspects of Christianity from my time going to Church, so I'm trying to cover all of my bases.)

 

[Jordan9]

Welcome, Betrys. I'm Jordan.

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. In my haste posting this, I forgot the entire reason I made this account in the first place! Questions!

1. Personally, what do you guys get out of Christianity?

I'm afraid it is my turn to ask you to be more specific. What do you mean by this?

In the meantime, I'll just say that I didn't go to Christ to "get" something - it isn't an exchange of goods or a bargain or something. Like St. Peter says in the Gospel of John "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." When you come to believe that this is the Truth, like Peter had and like many other Christians have, it is no longer really a choice. I am incapable of ignoring truth.

But, as an addendum, check out my signature. For me, Christianity has been a very difficult aspect of my life. Some people find great joy and peace when coming to Christ. To a certain, more deep degree, I have, too. But on another level, it has been one of the most unsettling and challenging experiences I've ever had.

2. Were you raised in a Christian home?

More or less. We went to church on Easter and Christmas... but my grandmother has always been very devout.

3. Do you have a literalist interpretation of the Bible?

I think Credo summed up my own answer quite well. As an example, I believe that Jesus said, at at least one point, it is better to remove your right eye than to sin with it. I don't, however, believe that His words were literal in that instance, because Scripture, Tradition, and reason make it clear that He doesn't.

Does that make sense?

Welcome to the forums!

 

[betrys]

Yeah, that question wasn't very clear at all, was it? I don't mean on a spiritual level or in a deeper field, I guess I just mean: In everyday life, does Christianity provide you comfort or happiness or companionship? How? (I asked this because I grew up as a Christian, and was extremely--and I don't take this word lightly--depressed during that time period).


And to the third question I'd ask: how do you know what to take literally and what is metaphorical? I don't mean only the more extreme examples, but the small things as well.

Thank you very much!

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

Hi
Thank you so much for replying! Honestly, I'm surprised you did, considering all of my questions were vague (I'm going back and forth from a big English project and exploring this website, so my mind isn't 100 percent here).

I wasn't so much trying to say there was a fault in your questions as I was trying to forewarn you that my answers might be a bit lengthy trying to parse out some distinctions.

What do you mean by a new identity? (I know that is a broad question, but I feel I've only learning the superficial aspects of Christianity from my time going to Church, so I'm trying to cover all of my bases.)

Well let's say that you are an atheist (which you are) and (for argument's sake) you believe that this has the following implications: (1) you are a product of randomness and the laws of physics, (2) life has no inherent meaning or purpose, and (3) there is no objective standard by which you are to live up to (morality).

Now, I'm not saying that you do believe any of these things. I'm just using it as an example. But these are fundamental questions that relate to how you view yourself and the world around. By contrast, a Christian will believe (1) they are a creation of God, (2) life has inherent meaning and purpose (you can't just make up your own), and (3) there is an objective standard which are you are to live up to.

There is more to it than this, which is why I left it so broad with just "identity," but hopefully this explains more of what I have in mind. This is just the broadest sketch of what it means to be Christian. It's a different view of who we are and why we are here and our fellow man is and what the problem of humanity is (or that there even is a problem) and how we relate to each other and even how we relate to the rest of creation (animals, the environment).

I'm sure someone can give an excellent answer that is more focused on the work of Christ to them personally.

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

And to the third question I'd ask: how do you know what to take literally and what is metaphorical? I don't mean only the more extreme examples, but the small things as well.

I think the same way we do with any other piece of literature. The common example is that if you pick up a book and the first sentence is "Once upon a time" you know right away that it is a fairy tale. Similarly, there are textual or contextual or simply common sense indications that something is a piece of poetry or that it is a historical narrative or that it is parable (which might be more like the "once upon a time" scenario).

 

[Jordan9]

Yeah, that question wasn't very clear at all, was it? I don't mean on a spiritual level or in a deeper field, I guess I just mean: In everyday life, does Christianity provide you comfort or happiness or companionship? How? (I asked this because I grew up as a Christian, and was extremely--and I don't take this word lightly--depressed during that time period).

If I may be so bold, what was it about your time as a Christian that made you extremely depressed? If you aren't comfortable answering, I understand. Don't feel that you're compelled or anything. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious.

And to the third question I'd ask: how do you know what to take literally and what is metaphorical? I don't mean only the more extreme examples, but the small things as well.

Thank you very much!

An excellent question! If Christians knew how to answer it, we wouldn't be as divided as we are today.

For example, many Christians consider John 6:25-59 (John 6:25-59 - PassageLookup - New International Version,

 

[betrys]

Wow, that was the most detailed answer I've ever gotten (which is odd, considering I've asked a pastor and 3 people who preached at my previous church, among others). Thank you very much.

And (I hate to ask this question, because it seems the entire debate is over-done and somewhat ridiculous) do you believe in a Young Earth, then?

 

[Jordan9]

Wow, that was the most detailed answer I've ever gotten (which is odd, considering I've asked a pastor and 3 people who preached at my previous church, among others). Thank you very much.

And (I hate to ask this question, because it seems the entire debate is over-done and somewhat ridiculous) do you believe in a Young Earth, then?

I, personally, don't. I do believe that God had a creative hand involved in the formation of the universe. For purposes of study and science, we can call it random if we wish. But I have the caveat that nothing is "random" to God, because He knows all ends, and time is inconsequential to Him.

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

do you believe in a Young Earth, then?

I see you went straight for the can of worms .

In another thread on the topic of evolution I posted a link to this video: The God Who is There: Part 1. The God Who Made Everything - The Gospel Coalition [<----link] (You can skip into about 11 minutes and 30 seconds to get to the Young Earth relevant part, but all of it is good and it is geared to people who are asking your sorts of questions.)

I agree with everything that the speaker says about the topic. I don't think people should get as hung up on this as many do, though there are some lines in the sand that have to be drawn. Personally, I'm agnostic about this topic. Sorry.

 

[betrys]

No, I feel okay mentioning most of it. I'm not going to lie, it's mostly superficial, but it mattered to me a lot at the time.

At that age, I was moving around a lot (at least once a year), so I didn't have many stable relationships. When I was seven, my parents got divorced, and my dad moved back to Brasil (we had just moved to America). For a while we were extremely broke, jumping from one cheap apartment to another (me, my brother and sister, my mother, my grandpa and grandma). My mom started dating this man named Michael, who wasn't the nicest, but my mom seemed to like him. Then my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and they got married, so we moved across the country once more. At that time, I started self-injuring, although it wasn't extremely serious at the time. When I was 10 my mother's relationship became more turbulent with Michael being either violent or distant. We found out Michael had been having an affair, so he ordered us out of the house.
I felt all the time that I was being punished for my sins and the people around me were the ones paying for it the most, so I started self-injuring more. At 12, I was hospitalized because I cut too deep and spent a couple of weeks at one of those centers, where I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and OCD (neither of which I was medicated for). I moved across the country again, and again, continued to self injure.
It was just difficult at the time, because I wanted so badly to believe in God, but I couldn't handle the pressure of being held to those standards. After a while, I just loathed myself for not being a 'good' Christian, and I kept on self-injuring.


Sorry if I bored you. If you don't want to read that, I'll sum it up: Family + Mental issues.
Yeah...

Anyway, I hope you don't think that I am an atheist because of my past. I wouldn't weigh such an important discission on that, although I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't my motivation at the beginning. I don't "hate" God for anything, I simply question his existance.
Just throwing that out there, because I feel a lot of people--even atheists-- don't know the distinction.

 

[betrys]

Yeah, I really try to avoid that one. I also don't believe evolution is random. But I do bellieve it exists.

 

[Jordan9]

Sorry if I bored you. If you don't want to read that, I'll sum it up: Family + Mental issues.
Yeah...

Anyway, I hope you don't think that I am an atheist because of my past. I wouldn't weigh such an important discission on that, although I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't my motivation at the beginning. I don't "hate" God for anything, I simply question his existance.
Just throwing that out there, because I feel a lot of people--even atheists-- don't know the distinction.

Nope, I wasn't bored at all. Thanks for sharing. Like Plato said, &#8220;Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." I just wanted to know more of yours, and how it lead you from Jesus. I do appreciate you sharing it, though.

So, if I gather, it was your trying times that lead you to question God, then? The age old "problem of evil"?

 

[betrys]

I suppose it was. Although I tried not to just remain bitter-- in fact, I'm not (or I wouldn't have shared). I tried to educate myself. I read the Bible front-to-back, and I've also read several books on religion (multiple relgions, because I wasn't willing at first to accept the idea that there was NO God.) And then I read many scientific journals and books, and drew my own ideas from there.
I'm not going to assume that I'm right, but I know that it makes me happy.

 

[Jordan9]

I suppose it was. Although I tried not to just remain bitter-- in fact, I'm not (or I wouldn't have shared). I tried to educate myself. I read the Bible front-to-back, and I've also read several books on religion (multiple relgions, because I wasn't willing at first to accept the idea that there was NO God.) And then I read many scientific journals and books, and drew my own ideas from there.
I'm not going to assume that I'm right, but I know that it makes me happy.

Mind if I plagiarize a question?

What is it that you get from atheism? I'm glad you're doing better now (as someone with a rough and difficult past myself, I do mean this with all sincerity), and I'm not trying to "undo" it. But it seems to me that it isn't leaving Christianity that made you happier, but rather your own strength and fortitude.

Am I way off base here, or?

 

[seetheunseen]

Hey betrys this is what I have to say about your questions not sure if this helps at all

1. Personally, what do you guys get out of Christianity?

What I get is confidence, Love I have so much love around me know it is amazing Love of God love from friends, a sense of security that there is always someone watching my back, and lastly an amazing new family.


2. Were you raised in a Christian home?

No not at all no one in my family is christian pretty sure most of them were also not raised christian, only person I could say was one grandmother which I never spent that much time with and the little time I did spend with her made me dislike christians more than want to become one and that was more how she treated me than God. I can honestly presently know everything is the same in my family no one is christian and most of them are not even agnostic in believing in a god and that does not appear to be changing anytime soon.


3. Do you have a literalist interpretation of the Bible?

Not sure what you mean by that since I feel I have a literalist interpretation, I do believe the bible is the work of God but do understand the argument that man wrote it and all that heck I used to use that excuse. I also try to fallow the bible and apply it to a modern time so yes is thats what you mean by that statement.

If you have any more questions just let me know I will try and explain the best I can but a lot of this is more complex than what I even said since it also has to do with my past history and more

 

[betrys]

Of course you may

From atheism, I get to explore myself and see my own life in a way that is pragmatic and helpful to society without having to worry about not being up to par with Christianity. And I can seek and accept truth from an unbaised position, without having to worry about whether or it contradicts my previous views.
Mostly though, atheism gives me accountability: my actions were my own, my mistakes are my own, my rewards are my own. There's something incredibly human that I find in that.

 

[betrys]

and @seetheunseen, thank you, it does help. I just like getting input whereever I can.