Atheist/Christian debates on Facebook

[Scrobulous]

Hi everyone,
I have been a member of the atheist and Christian debate facebook group for the last couple of weeks.
I left the group this morning after they pulled my post on the grounds that it was 'non debatable post/unrelated to group topic'.
A quick look at the site will quickly reveal that anything goes, so I am very surprised at this 'censorship'.
Here is my post, am I missing something?

To all you poor atheists still confused about the coronavirus

God gave man dominion over the earth. After the fall and mankind’s rejection of God, God has largely withdrawn from human affairs.
The virus is the result of very poor human stewardship of the Earth and abuse of God’s creatures. Man created the virus and now we are asking for God to intervene and stop it.
God does not intervene in human affairs except to teach very specific spiritual lessons, to vindicate His prophets, apostles and Christ and very rarely for people who please God in some way.
So, God will allow the virus to sweep the Earth with great regret, because He loves mankind and generally would delight in saving them. But He will be looking for repentance and faith and what will He see?
Most churches are disobedient to God, so He will reject their prayers out of hand and is very unlikely to spare any of them. In fact His wrath rests on these worldly churches and He will blame them for the godlessness in the world.
As for the godless themselves, specifically those who insult Him daily, why would God have any interest in them at all? They are kindle for the fire. Those godless who are seeking truth stand a good chance. Should they see the virus as a warning and repent, God’s joy might be so great that He will spare some of them, otherwise He will do what He has been doing. He will give everyone a lifetime to repent and if they don’t He will cast them from His presence.
The issue with the virus, as always, will boil down to what the faithful and obedient christians can do in prayer.

 

[CS1]

Hi everyone,
I have been a member of the atheist and Christian debate facebook group for the last couple of weeks.
I left the group this morning after they pulled my post on the grounds that it was 'non debatable post/unrelated to group topic'.
A quick look at the site will quickly reveal that anything goes, so I am very surprised at this 'censorship'.
Here is my post, am I missing something?

To all you poor atheists still confused about the coronavirus

God gave man dominion over the earth. After the fall and mankind’s rejection of God, God has largely withdrawn from human affairs.
The virus is the result of very poor human stewardship of the Earth and abuse of God’s creatures. Man created the virus and now we are asking for God to intervene and stop it.
God does not intervene in human affairs except to teach very specific spiritual lessons, to vindicate His prophets, apostles and Christ and very rarely for people who please God in some way.
So, God will allow the virus to sweep the Earth with great regret, because He loves mankind and generally would delight in saving them. But He will be looking for repentance and faith and what will He see?
Most churches are disobedient to God, so He will reject their prayers out of hand and is very unlikely to spare any of them. In fact His wrath rests on these worldly churches and He will blame them for the godlessness in the world.
As for the godless themselves, specifically those who insult Him daily, why would God have any interest in them at all? They are kindle for the fire. Those godless who are seeking truth stand a good chance. Should they see the virus as a warning and repent, God’s joy might be so great that He will spare some of them, otherwise He will do what He has been doing. He will give everyone a lifetime to repent and if they don’t He will cast them from His presence.
The issue with the virus, as always, will boil down to what the faithful and obedient christians can do in prayer.

I must say, you are not very equipped to debate an atheist. nothing here you said is even completely supported in the word of God.

God did not at all withdraw from human affairs. God immediately made provision to win man back > Jesu was slain at the foundations of the world meaning God already knew what HE would do for man HE loves to get him back. the virus is a disease that came from SIN. You say most church are disobedient to God? What about you? God doesn't reject prayers HE hears the humble and the repentant .
Nothing you have said would even interest and atheist. First off Christians do not need to debate atheist.

 

[Ronja]

”To all you poor atheists still confused about the coronavirus”
You are not very good in holding a good discussion and I can understand why they didn’t want you in the group after this post.
You are preaching from an attacking perspective, like people are against you and you are the just one. I might have missed it but never once did I read the words “I believe” or “in my faith”. You wrote like this is the absolute truth and you have no idea if it is. You could quote the Bible because it is a document of history, but don’t go around preaching about what the coronavirus is because you can only believe, not know. And for people who are losing their loved ones in this, to read your text must be very hurtful.

 

[Funkus]

you're entering the debate at their level they will always win you have to come from above and go in naked without any clothes on, then you might get somewhere with them. take all your clothes off

 

[Scrobulous]

Thank you to CS1, Ronja and Funkus for your constructive comments. I will, take them on board.

 

[WilliamGrahamIII]

Mr Scrobulous, how do you say that GOD has withdrawn from human affiars, what evidence do you have for this shocking statement? Did a man create the virus? How do you know that? A man is a poor thing before a creator god, and remember god created the world and everything in it. The virus is a gift from god, he knows why he has created it and to what end, and we must accept that it is god's will that men women and children must die because of this god willed and created virus. If only we could blame evolution

 

[DesertWanderer]

Here is my post, am I missing something?

Yes, I believe so. The best weapon against Satan and his legions of atheists is the word of God. I don't see that in your post at all.

Atheists are generally well versed in scripture; they know it backward and forward. If you are going to debate with an atheist, you must be willing to back up your views with scripture just as Jesus did when he was tempted by Satan:

But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Mat. 4:4

Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” Mat. 4:7

Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’ Mat. 4:10

I once got on a debate site and did nothing but reply with scripture. I never said a word on my own. Man, that infuriated the atheists!

There were two things I learned from that experience:

1. You will never ever ever ever win a debate against a true atheist. Why? Because all your pieces of evidence are from Christian sources and therefore invalid in his mind.

2. You get a glimpse of what hell would be like. Imagine spending the rest of eternity locked up in a dark room with a bunch of atheists spewing insults at each other for not giving the correct answer. Yikes!

For those two reasons, I refuse to debate with someone who has already made up their mind. It is an exercise in futility.

 

[Ronja]

Yes, I believe so. The best weapon against Satan and his legions of atheists is the word of God.

I once got on a debate site and did nothing but reply with scripture. I never said a word on my own. Man, that infuriated the atheists!

There were two things I learned from that experience:

1. You will never ever ever ever win a debate against a true atheist. Why? Because all your pieces of evidence are from Christian sources and therefore invalid in his mind.

I think the biggest issue here is that you view them as your enemies. From what I learned, you are to show Gods love through yourself and your actions. Arguing, calling atheists people of Satan, well that pisses even me off. Most my friends are atheists and some are even satanist. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to spend time with them.
If we would have a discussion and the only thing you did would be to quote scripture, yes, that would infuriate me too. I can read scripture myself and the thing with the Bible is that you can twist and turn the words to mean something completely different. Put up the post and tell them what you think it means and why it is important? Otherwise they are just annoying, empty words.

 

[Ronja]

Mr Scrobulous, how do you say that GOD has withdrawn from human affiars, what evidence do you have for this shocking statement? Did a man create the virus? How do you know that? A man is a poor thing before a creator god, and remember god created the world and everything in it. The virus is a gift from god, he knows why he has created it and to what end, and we must accept that it is god's will that men women and children must die because of this god willed and created virus. If only we could blame evolution

I don’t think everything is Gods will. We as humans don’t have the full picture and act out of greed and misinformation. It was and is our lack of nature and animals that brought the virus to the first person. It is after that natural that it should spread. I do not think God causes bad things to happen, I think that he just wants to help us through them. He might just have allowed it to exist.

 

[Ronja]

It was and is our lack of respect for nature and it’s animals*

 

[Scrobulous]

Mr Scrobulous, how do you say that GOD has withdrawn from human affiars, what evidence do you have for this shocking statement? Did a man create the virus? How do you know that? A man is a poor thing before a creator god, and remember god created the world and everything in it. The virus is a gift from god, he knows why he has created it and to what end, and we must accept that it is god's will that men women and children must die because of this god willed and created virus. If only we could blame evolution

When I said ‘God withdrew from human affairs’ I meant in the strict context of the fall. Had there been no fall, no contact with God would have been lost. After the fall, God banished man from His presence and we are still waiting for the time when our union with God is restored. Of course God hasn’t withdrawn from the world in the sense that He takes no further interest in it! What I meant was that God has left man as stewards of the Earth and apart from specific and rare miraculous interventions, God leaves the earth in man's hands.
As for the virus, certainly God created the microscopic world, but there is a suggestion, taken seriously by scientists, that this virus arose because animals were kept in dirty and inhumane conditions in wildlife markets, creating an environment in which the virus could breed. I am not saying it is a man made virus (there are conspiracy theories which I do not believe) only that man bears some responsibility for the virus.

 

[Scrobulous]

Yes, I believe so. The best weapon against Satan and his legions of atheists is the word of God. I don't see that in your post at all.

Atheists are generally well versed in scripture; they know it backward and forward. If you are going to debate with an atheist, you must be willing to back up your views with scripture just as Jesus did when he was tempted by Satan:

But he answered, “It is written, ‘Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Mat. 4:4

Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” Mat. 4:7

Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’ Mat. 4:10

I once got on a debate site and did nothing but reply with scripture. I never said a word on my own. Man, that infuriated the atheists!

There were two things I learned from that experience:

1. You will never ever ever ever win a debate against a true atheist. Why? Because all your pieces of evidence are from Christian sources and therefore invalid in his mind.

2. You get a glimpse of what hell would be like. Imagine spending the rest of eternity locked up in a dark room with a bunch of atheists spewing insults at each other for not giving the correct answer. Yikes!

For those two reasons, I refuse to debate with someone who has already made up their mind. It is an exercise in futility.

I found it a useful and educational experience. The comments I made were based on my understanding of the bible. The atheists on this website were more 'god haters' than anything else. Only 2 out of around 20 that I chatted with did not refer to God as 'it'. The big thing there was that God endorsed slavery in the OT, therefore God is immoral, unlike them! I was hoping to find a few seekers after truth. Not sure whether I did! Now I am happy to have left the site and I will not seek another.

 

[sherryt]

[QUOTE="Ronja, post: 4318780, mem satanist. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to spend time with them.
If we would have a discussion and the only thing you did would be to quote scripture, yes, that would infuriate me too. I can read scripture myself and the thing with the Bible is that you can twist and turn the words to mean something completely different. Put up the post and tell them what you think it means and why it is important? Otherwise they are just annoying, empty words.[/QUOTE]


Ronja: This is a "Bible Discussion Forum" Since quoting Scripture infuriates you and is annoying empty words, No Disrespect intended but you might possibly be happier finding another forum that would serve you better. Just a thought.

 

[Scrobulous]

I don’t think everything is Gods will. We as humans don’t have the full picture and act out of greed and misinformation. It was and is our lack of nature and animals that brought the virus to the first person. It is after that natural that it should spread. I do not think God causes bad things to happen, I think that he just wants to help us through them. He might just have allowed it to exist.

I don’t think everything is God’s perfect will. For example, God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. There was an entirely viable alternate path for humanity that would not have involved death and suffering. But we did sin and IMHO God is now allowing every consequence of sin to play out in the world. So, we get famines and plagues. God allows them. Are they His perfect will? Of course not. But are they His permissive will? Yes. Because God allows them to happen. Why? So that everyone will see and experience what sin and rebellion from God really means. God allowed the 2004 tsunami. This had nothing to do with men. It was a so called natural disaster. God could have warned us, so that the beaches were evacuated. He did not. Why? Because we have to see what life is like outside the umbrella of God’s protection. God himself says ‘Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone.’ Lam 3:32-33.

In the 14th century the black death killed 50% of the population. Good and bad alike. Think about that. The death of a man is no big deal to God. He can restore and comfort them after death. But the lesson is for the living. This world teaches the whole human race the gravity of life without God. I am sure God Himself suffers when we suffer. He draws close and comforts us when we suffer. We are called to love God when good things happen and when bad things happen. This brings Him glory and it will bring us glory too.

 

[Ronja]

[QUOTE="Ronja, post: 4318780, mem satanist. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to spend time with them.
If we would have a discussion and the only thing you did would be to quote scripture, yes, that would infuriate me too. I can read scripture myself and the thing with the Bible is that you can twist and turn the words to mean something completely different. Put up the post and tell them what you think it means and why it is important? Otherwise they are just annoying, empty words.

Ronja: This is a "Bible Discussion Forum" Since quoting Scripture infuriates you and is annoying empty words, No Disrespect intended but you might possibly be happier finding another forum that would serve you better. Just a thought.[/QUOTE]
Harsh, and who would it serve to tell everybody that disagrees with you to leave?
But you didn’t understand me then. I have no issues with scripture and discussing the text, but if what you do is only to give people bible verses, what is the point? Sure, someone out there will probably say, “hey, this is just for me!” But I bet most will just read a text in an non modern way of writing/speaking and be put off. I am not saying that quoting scripture is a bad idea in a Christian community, but we are talking about discussions with atheists.
Do you get me now?

 

[breno785au]

I personally believe your first mistake is in the title, "To all you poor atheists still confused about the corona virus"
Begin here. This reeks of arrogance to put it bluntly.
This us vs them culture among the church needs to stop.
Let's work to put on humility, kindness and gentleness.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I have yet to encounter a person who will tell me:
"I was a hardcore atheist, but then I debated with some Christians and their arguments convinced me to accept Christ".

Having faith in Jesus comes spiritually, usually when a person crumbles down under the weight of their own life, and when directly faced with impending reality of ultimate existence beyond the shackles of conscious presence and broadcasting this figment of reality - thus there are no, or maybe hardly any, deathbed atheists, and most people will utter a prayer when their bare life is in danger, no matter how secular they are, and they all know they're not praying to Ra, nor to Zeus, it's begging mercy from THAT vengeful God of the Bible, that loving albeit scary one that must recompense sins, that they ran from all the time. No one can debate people into faith, faith comes from the inside. Before I was an unbeliever, even at the times when I wished to believe and to be convinced, no matter what would someone tell me, I could not accept it and believe, because I was not ready in my heart.

The way I used to argue with the atheists, in the old days when YouTube was still a good place to debate, I argued them with right brain, which usually pissed them off a LOT, and sometimes they were at loss for words (atheists are - I believe, without exception - left brain dominant folks). But even though it was fun, I stopped after I while because I realized, what is the profit for the kingdom of God? I was arguing for the sake of having fun and winning (eh, that ego). But debate does not win people to Jesus, so I stopped. Nowadays what I do is simply testify. I tell others what happened in my life, how I used to be and how I got to where I am now. Even if not initially, if we engage in further conversation, they eventually have respect for that attitude or at least stop being hostile, and I like to think it makes people expand their mind a teeny bit, rather than dig deeper into a ditch.

 

[Lanolin]

If I was an atheist I wouldnt even read past the first line.

For a start, many athiests do not consider themselves poor. They would be insulted from the get go.

 

[sherryt]

Ronja: This is a "Bible Discussion Forum" Since quoting Scripture infuriates you and is annoying empty words, No Disrespect intended but you might possibly be happier finding another forum that would serve you better. Just a thought.

Harsh, and who would it serve to tell everybody that disagrees with you to leave?
But you didn’t understand me then. I have no issues with scripture and discussing the text, but if what you do is only to give people bible verses, what is the point? Sure, someone out there will probably say, “hey, this is just for me!” But I bet most will just read a text in an non modern way of writing/speaking and be put off. I am not saying that quoting scripture is a bad idea in a Christian community, but we are talking about discussions with atheists.
Do you get me now?[/QUOTE]



Ronja: Please re-read my posting as I have read yours. I explained "NO DISRESPECT INTENDED" I did not disagree with you. Because you appeared to be quite annoyed with the prior postings I only expressed "that you might be happier finding another Forum that you would be more comfortable in." You took this as harsh, I apologize AGAIN as stated before I meant no disrespect.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

As for the godless themselves, specifically those who insult Him daily, why would God have any interest in them at all? They are kindle for the fire. Those godless who are seeking truth stand a good chance. Should they see the virus as a warning and repent, God’s joy might be so great that He will spare some of them, otherwise He will do what He has been doing. He will give everyone a lifetime to repent and if they don’t He will cast them from His presence.
The issue with the virus, as always, will boil down to what the faithful and obedient christians can do in prayer.

That is what atheists do, they say that they do not believe in God and then when bad things happen in this world they turn to God and blame him. Its hypocrisy at its finest. When someone goes to hell, they really do deserve it.