DannyC
IronChariots,
I learned the basics of the Evolution Theory in high school too (many years ago) but back then it was all about the survival of the fittest. If it's changed from that focus, I didn't know. I apologise. Where did Darwin get the idea of looking after the poor and needy? From the Bible. Sure he changed his beliefs but he was raised as a Christian and some of those truths stuck to him throughout his life. And I know he wasn't the first to propose the theory of evolution. There was a Greek philosopher thousands of years ago who suggested the idea, which didn't really take off. Then an ancestor of Darwin proposed the idea and it gained a few more followers. Darwin just popularized the belief.
I apologise if it came across that I was lumping you in with the Nazis because you believe evolutionary theory. That wasn't my intention. It was questioning why a world that largely believes in evolutionary theory believes we should look after those people. I wasn't equating you guys with Nazis. Still, there's no denying that Social Darwinism borrows heavily from Darwin's writings. The fact that you don't support eugenics, while believing in evolutionary theory, proves that your understanding and values are different and more grounded in a Judeo/Christian belief system.
Now as to whether or not the Nazis were Christian or not, I think it's safe to say that they weren't Bible-believing Christians. Yes, some belonged to Protestant and Catholic churches but attending church doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car (a tired illustration, I know - sorry). Also, the values and beliefs they shared were anything but Christian. They incorporated Gnostic, Germanic and Roman paganism and occult practices to create their own religion. Adolf Hitler was a deranged man. He hated Christians only less than he hated Jewish people. He and his party destroyed countless churches and art works, Bibles and other books and executed thousands of pastors and many Christians. Surely he saw them as a threat, especially since much of Germany and Austria claimed to be Christian (even if just socially or by name).
C
'Where did Darwin get the idea of looking after the poor and needy? From the Bible.'
Considering that you have just inserted that inference without even checking sources is extremely poor guess work on your part. Darwin may have been a struggling Chirstian but to suggest he lacked the ability to care about others, unless his holy book said so, tells more about your concept of Darwin than the real Darwin. Darwin was like anyone else apart from that he discovered the natural mechanism which explains how we get different species. He was a struggling Christian who later I believe became an agnostic and had some extremely bad illness's throughout his life. Was Darwin wrong about certain things? Yes obviously his work is 150 years old, but still the core of his work is correct. I don't idolise Darwin but I do consider him an extremely important and intelligent man and for that reason I will defend his work and his character.
'And I know he wasn't the first to propose the theory of evolution. There was a Greek philosopher thousands of years ago who suggested the idea, which didn't really take off. Then an ancestor of Darwin proposed the idea and it gained a few more followers. Darwin just popularized the belief.'
Not a single person until Darwin's time proposed The origin of species by means of natural selection. Nor did any one before Darwin propose an idea which fully supported the geological distribution of animals among the continents. I have read his works and his detail and the time which he put into his work is conveyed throughout The origin of species. You believe that some Greek philosopher who you didn't name at some time proposed his entire works? Either he proposed Darwins entire book and then you would have a point or he proposed some very vague idea which in any case is a straw man argument and a mis-representation of an entire theory. So do you have any Greek manuscripts which contain 18th/19th century data that Darwin had? No I highly doubt it. I find this has little relevance though to your original statement about Nazism.
'It was questioning why a world that largely believes in evolutionary theory believes we should look after those people.'
So you believe the acceptance of fact leads to abject morality? I would love to see your link between this. Does believing in something that is evident mean the entire population can resort to nilihism? Could it be morality can be accessed in a world that accepts morality? It is certainly evident that that is the case. Take any number of secular and atheistic countries in the majoritory sense, who accepts evolution.
'there's no denying that Social Darwinism borrows heavily from Darwin's writings. The fact that you don't support eugenics, while believing in evolutionary theory, proves that your understanding and values are different and more grounded in a Judeo/Christian belief system.'
Well I see the very evident confusion of Nazism to Social Darwinism. You are aware that eugenics is not actually part of natural selection and couldn't be further from the mechanism which Darwin discovered? I don't get my morality from the Judeo/Christian belief system. Again you must profess to know more that you possibly could to assume my morality is based on a system I think is false. The idea that morality comes from religion is an insult to moral philosophers both atheistic and religious, which you already credited one to 'discovering evolution' before Darwin yet you forget about them 5 or 6 lines after. Social Darwinism is something which Darwin himself in his own works said should not happen. Social Darwinism is not a by product of accepting evolution that is a non-sequitur.
'They incorporated Gnostic, Germanic and Roman paganism and occult practices to create their own religion.'
You have refuted yourself by originally stating Nazism was linked to Darwinian teaching then happily listing occults and religious teachings as their basis for their actions. You cannot have it both ways. Not to mention Hitler had a hatred for communism and guess who else in his public speeches and writings he also condemned? Yes atheists. He would lump atheists and communists into one group and would project his hatred to the German people. Now I don't mind if you want to say Hitler was not a christian, maybe he wasn't, the evidence is murky to say the least. But you don't get to say The theory of evolution or atheism was at any point the reason for Nazism. That is just completely unhistorical. I am completely aware of Blood rites and Nordic myths which Himmler and Hitler embraced, and with that in mind and with your reference to other religious/occultic practises we can safely say secularism/atheism and darwinian theory had no place in the 'blood purifying myths' which the Nazis believed in. Now I could go into the history of all this, but I really don't have the time to do so but I feel you think you can't have morals and the theory of evolution or at least if you accept evolution in some way that infers you must have morals from somewhere else. That may be true but you can't turn around and say then it must be christianity, because then you must be insisting no other moral system has every been proposed and that is completely false.
