atheists

[Cycel]

More precisely, atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Atheism is the default position - if there is insufficient evidence to believe in a particular entity, one should not believe.

Except, faith does not rely on evidence for justification. It's not like science. One doesn't come to believe in God because of evidence, and one doesn't stop believing for lack of it. At least most people don't. When faith is lost I think it is usually for other reasons.

And welcome to the forum AvalonXQ.

 

[danschance]

More precisely, atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Atheism is the default position - if there is insufficient evidence to believe in a particular entity, one should not believe.

I understand and do not wish to split hairs over terms like belief or lack of belief. It is a minor point.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Except, faith does not rely on evidence for justification.

I disagree. Faith, as the term is used in the Bible, is a conviction that is based on the believer's observations and experiences. It is very much an evidence-based belief, and in fact any belief that is not based on evidence is nonsensical.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I understand and do not wish to split hairs over terms like belief or lack of belief. It is a minor point.

I disagree that it's a minor point. A belief requires evidence to be jusfified; lack of belief does not.
Christianity is a religion. Atheism is not.
Christianity needs evidence in order to be justified. Atheism is does not.

 

[AvalonXQ]

And thanks for the welcome. I'm happy to get to engage in these discussions.

 

[Cycel]

It is not logical to say there is no God. To be able to say that factually, one would have to search the entire universe....

And so you would also agree, relying on the same logic, that you cannot say other gods do not exist? Therefore, it is not logical to say that the Greek or Roman pantheon of gods does not exist.

If you are going to rely on the above reasoning to confirm the possible existence of God then you must also apply the same logic to every other god or spirit that mankind has ever thought existed. You cannot reasonably deny any of them; not if you are going to remain true to this same logic.

I am sure you can see where the application of this logic backfires.

 

[Cycel]

I disagree. Faith, as the term is used in the Bible, is a conviction that is based on the believer's observations and experiences. It is very much an evidence-based belief, and in fact any belief that is not based on evidence is nonsensical.

I am sure you would agree, however, that in practice Christian don't believe in God because they have been persuaded by the evidence. Most probably believe in God simply because they don't have a reason not to. Some, perhaps because they have been challenged by non-believers, have sought their own evidence, and many believe they have found it. You won't accept their evidence as rational, but to them it makes perfect sense.

"Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists" (Hebrews 11:1). This oft quoted passage is confirmation that faith is not reliant on evidence-based observations.

 

[Cycel]

What I meant by my comment is that atheists come here to debate facts. They will point out something in science and bring that up in this forum to prove Christianity is false. So it becomes a debate of fact vs faith....

What kind of facts are you talking about? If you mean facts about evolution, these do not attack Christian belief, at least not in my estimation.

 

[danschance]

And so you would also agree, relying on the same logic, that you cannot say other gods do not exist? Therefore, it is not logical to say that the Greek or Roman pantheon of gods does not exist.

If you are going to rely on the above reasoning to confirm the possible existence of God then you must also apply the same logic to every other god or spirit that mankind has ever thought existed. You cannot reasonably deny any of them; not if you are going to remain true to this same logic.

I am sure you can see where the application of this logic backfires.

Other Gods do not exist. I say that in faith, not fact.

 

[danschance]

What kind of facts are you talking about? If you mean facts about evolution, these do not attack Christian belief, at least not in my estimation.

Some atheists, for lack of a better term, do attempt to disprove Christianity. In fact some hate Christianity in all it's facets. They even openly mock Christianity.

I tried to log on to a Christian chat room one time. The room was not moderated. There were twenty people there and all were atheists or "anti-Christians", waiting for a debate with any Christian who walked in. They spend a great deal of time trying to speak to Christians to "prove" something. Seems like a miserable existence to me, but whatever floats their boat..

 

[Cycel]

Sorry Dan, I pressed the post button too soon. This belongs with my previous post.

As an example, I believe Jesus died to forgive sin so we can be counted as Holy. How can I prove that? I can't jam a concept into a test tube and dissolve it in acid. So I am sorry to of written that statement in that way without clarification. I do believe at the core of atheism is a belief that God does not exist, even tho' many will deny that.

Atheists frequently argue the usage of words, and belief is one of them. It's semantics mostly. We get upset when the word belief is used to imply atheism is a religion.

True, the notion of salvation is not something for which physical evidence is possible. That's a good example for Avalon of a belief that is not reliant on evidence; but then you might point out that atheism is a belief that doesn't have hard evidence to back it up either. I suspect most atheists become atheists not because they think they have found evidence against belief in God, but because they can no longer make a connection with a deity whom they can find no reason to believe in.

 

[Cycel]

Some atheists, for lack of a better term, do attempt to disprove Christianity. In fact some hate Christianity in all it's facets. They even openly mock Christianity.

Oh, it happens.

I tried to log on to a Christian chat room one time. The room was not moderated. There were twenty people there and all were atheists or "anti-Christians", waiting for a debate with any Christian who walked in. They spend a great deal of time trying to speak to Christians to "prove" something. Seems like a miserable existence to me, but whatever floats their boat..

Not so miserable really. I've been to forums where individual Christians have literally thousands of posts. People like to chat, debate, and argue.

 

[AvalonXQ]

It is an unfortunate fact that many Christians misunderstand faith and try to put it in opposition to evidence, when in fact faith should be based on evidence. Mine is, just as was the faith of the Saints who went before me.

 

[breno785au]

It is an unfortunate fact that many Christians misunderstand faith and try to put it in opposition to evidence, when in fact faith should be based on evidence. Mine is, just as was the faith of the Saints who went before me.

Faith extends much further than just believing in God. It's a way of life. To have faith in God is to believe what God has said is true. For eg, God will provide all our needs - even when it seems at times we are lacking and have nothing, we have the choice of standing on God's word that He will provide (someway or somehow beyond our minds can see, i've experienced this and seen it with others countless of times) and He always stands by His word, those who have faith in Him will always confess this through experience.
Does that make sense?

 

[WarChild]

My parents were atheists. I was never really raised as an atheist, they just never told me about god.

I've never been surrounded by people who believed and Never went to church. And to me Christmas was about Santa Clause and getting presents.
Now it's about getting time off work and having socks and ties lol.

So yeah, belief in gods is indeed an absurd notion to me. Even when I was taught it in school I didn't believe any of it.

 

[danschance]

My parents were atheists. I was never really raised as an atheist, they just never told me about god.

I've never been surrounded by people who believed and Never went to church. And to me Christmas was about Santa Clause and getting presents.
Now it's about getting time off work and having socks and ties lol.

So yeah, belief in gods is indeed an absurd notion to me. Even when I was taught it in school I didn't believe any of it.

Why do you feel the need to post this on a Christian forum? Are you trying to be rude?

Maybe I should go to a homosexual forum and tell them I think being gay is absurd?

 

[danschance]

It is an unfortunate fact that many Christians misunderstand faith and try to put it in opposition to evidence, when in fact faith should be based on evidence. Mine is, just as was the faith of the Saints who went before me.

Nice to have an opinion. I respect your opinion but it is counter to what the bible says.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 NASB

 

[breno785au]

My parents were atheists. I was never really raised as an atheist, they just never told me about god.

I've never been surrounded by people who believed and Never went to church. And to me Christmas was about Santa Clause and getting presents.
Now it's about getting time off work and having socks and ties lol.

So yeah, belief in gods is indeed an absurd notion to me. Even when I was taught it in school I didn't believe any of it.

I was raised as an occasional catholic, easter, christmas etc. More about santa than Jesus. Then grew up and did what we normally do, live according to how we feel, see and perceive.
Tell me, do you believe there is no God, or your not sure if there is? Are you willing to humble yourself to find out the truth of Gods existence? I know there's a lot of questions to be answered regarding God, people and the world. I say, if you have questions ask them but be ready for a reply you might not want to hear lol

 

[WarChild]

Why do you feel the need to post this on a Christian forum? Are you trying to be rude?

Maybe I should go to a homosexual forum and tell them I think being gay is absurd?

I felt the need to post this because I was answering a previous question posed to me in this thread asking why I don't believe and feel the way I do.

It wasnt just a random post. Maybe you should read the thread.

 

[WarChild]

I was raised as an occasional catholic, easter, christmas etc. More about santa than Jesus. Then grew up and did what we normally do, live according to how we feel, see and perceive.
Tell me, do you believe there is no God, or your not sure if there is? Are you willing to humble yourself to find out the truth of Gods existence? I know there's a lot of questions to be answered regarding God, people and the world. I say, if you have questions ask them but be ready for a reply you might not want to hear lol

Im afraid to answer now incase Dan jumps down my throat lol