atheists

[cathym112]

Quoting the Bible to prove God to an Atheist is like an Atheist quoting harry potter to prove harry potter. It means nothing to me. To me, the Bible, thankfully, is a work of complete fiction.

 

[Ichabod]

Ya know, when I ask Theists a question, I do not then proceed to belittle, insult, or otherwise engage in anything other than intelligent and thoughtful discussion.

To do otherwise, is not going to further the conversation from either side. I will never convert you (I'm not trying to) and you will never convert me (I hope you aren't trying). But the purpose of the conversation is to genuinely try to see it from someone else's perspective even if you politely disagree.

So when I ask a theist a question, I am genuinely searching for an answer....not searching for only the answer I want.

Its disappointing that my discussions thus far - which was a question to an Atheist - have been met with poor rhetoric.

The sad and hypocritical part is that you will probably be banned and
the people who are name calling are free to do as they please.

 

[Praus]

But the purpose of the conversation is to genuinely try to see it from someone else's perspective even if you politely disagree.

Ok, I'm terribly sorry for exposing your intellectual dishonesty.





Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

[danschance]

Ya know, when I ask Theists a question, I do not then proceed to belittle, insult, or otherwise engage in anything other than intelligent and thoughtful discussion.

To do otherwise, is not going to further the conversation from either side. I will never convert you (I'm not trying to) and you will never convert me (I hope you aren't trying). But the purpose of the conversation is to genuinely try to see it from someone else's perspective even if you politely disagree.

So when I ask a theist a question, I am genuinely searching for an answer....not searching for only the answer I want.

Its disappointing that my discussions thus far - which was a question to an Atheist - have been met with poor rhetoric.

You posted blatantly false information and then have the hubris to claim it was a "intelligent and thoughtful discussion".

 

[Praus]

Quoting the Bible to prove God to an Atheist is like an Atheist quoting harry potter to prove harry potter. It means nothing to me. To me, the Bible, thankfully, is a work of complete fiction.

Today's Yiddish word of the day: chutzpah

chutzpah - Wiktionary

chutzpah (uncountable) Noun
(slang) Nearly arrogant courage; utter audacity, effrontery or impudence; supreme self-confidence;exaggerated self-opinion;

Originated 1890–95 from Yiddish חוצפּה (khutspe), from Mishnaic Hebrew חֻצְפָּה (khutspá), from חָצַף (khátsaf, “to be insolent”).

 

[danschance]

The sad and hypocritical part is that you will probably be banned and
the people who are name calling are free to do as they please.

Ichy, the sad part is you are defending her. She posted a string of false information and then to defend her false claims she posted a link that said the opposite of what she had hoped it said.

That is dishonest. You, to the best of my knowledge, have never done that. I referred to one of her posts as being "arrogant snobbery" and she continues to prove that. She has not even admitted she made false statements. She is intellectually dishonest. She doesn't read her own links that she posts. You can't quote the exception to a rule and claim it is the rule. That is a logical fallacy and blatantly dishonest.

 

[Laodicea]

Yes. Across history. Billions.
"Some how you turned 5,000 into billions. There was not 1 billion alive then and I can only assume that you have inflated these numbers out of shear ignorance mixed with religious hatred. The world population first hit one billion in 1820. Had "billions died, no human would of survived."

Christian Atrocities | Victims of Christianity | Catholic Church Inquisition | Crusades






1) Galileo was kept under house arrest and was never tortured, not even one time. You are fabricating your facts.


WAS GALILEO TORTURED? - Article - NYTimes.com. He was tortured until he recanted.

Vatican Science Panel Told By Pope - Galileo Was Right - NYTimes.com





2) The pope never said condoms spread Aids. Pope Benedict and Condoms: What He Did and Did Not Say

Pope claims condoms could make African Aids crisis worse | World news | theguardian.com

BBC NEWS | Africa | Pope tells Africa 'condoms wrong'


Hes said condoms make the problem worse. Ie, they don't prevent the spread of the virus (they do), but make it worse (they don't).


3) Here is a lie atheists and God haters love: Hitler was a Catholic". It is true that Hitler was raised Catholic. He even spoke like he believed in God in some of his speeches to win over the hearts and minds. But his private comments revealed Hitler hated Christianity.

Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country.

Interesting that you would point out things done by the Papacy because the Bible does the same. The Bible points out bad things done by the Papacy as well.

 

[cathym112]

I disagree that the information is false. I posted a lot on evolution as well.

What is ironic here is that you accuse me of having chutzpah, yet you claim to know not only that there is a God, but you are saved (and I'm not), that you know exactly what he Jesus meant when he said certain things in the Bible (a document that isn't proven to be true by any non-biased historian) and one that has been written decades after his death and by people who did not ever meet him, and, to put the cherry on it - is that out of 1,000 other religions - you have the only "Correct" religion and that everyone else is wrong.

I, as an Atheist, do not deny the existence of God. I do not say, "There is no God." All I say is that "There is not enough evidence today to reasonably conclude that there is a God." That is a big difference. I do not purport to interpret the will of God, or tell Christians that they will suffer torture for the rest of eternity if they don't become an atheist. I do not threaten, or hold a lofty holier than thou attitude towards those of a different opinion.

So I find it ironic that you would say I'm arrogant. Pot? Meet Kettle.

 

[cathym112]

Ichy, the sad part is you are defending her. She posted a string of false information and then to defend her false claims she posted a link that said the opposite of what she had hoped it said.

That is dishonest. You, to the best of my knowledge, have never done that. I referred to one of her posts as being "arrogant snobbery" and she continues to prove that. She has not even admitted she made false statements. She is intellectually dishonest. She doesn't read her own links that she posts. You can't quote the exception to a rule and claim it is the rule. That is a logical fallacy and blatantly dishonest.

I did not make the argument of exception as the rule. I said that, several times. I provided an example for which irrationality, even with no malfeasance, is bad.

 

[cathym112]

Again, you claim billions killed by Christianity and your own source does not claim that. Your own source lists the Rwanda massacre as being a religious war--what a joke.

You didn't actually read it, did you? I am providing examples. I stated there are plenty more examples. Surely I do not need to list all of them in order for my point to be taken. Christianity is responsible for the death of billions across history. I fail to see how your description of a "religious war" nullifies the fact that one religion caused the suffering of many. So if its a religious war, that means that those responsible for the fighting aren't in turn responsible for the deaths? I don't follow you.

 

[Ichabod]

Ichy, the sad part is you are defending her. She posted a string of false information and then to defend her false claims she posted a link that said the opposite of what she had hoped it said.

That is dishonest. You, to the best of my knowledge, have never done that. I referred to one of her posts as being "arrogant snobbery" and she continues to prove that. She has not even admitted she made false statements. She is intellectually dishonest. She doesn't read her own links that she posts. You can't quote the exception to a rule and claim it is the rule. That is a logical fallacy and blatantly dishonest.

I still feel that she is being treated poorly by those that claim to be Christians.

 

[cathym112]

Why do Christians accuse Atheists of being arrogant? We do not say there isn't a God, we just say we have no evidence to prove the existence. If we came across that proof tomorrow, and that proof held up to rational and actual examination, then we would say There is a God. I concede that I could be wrong and that there is one.

Christians believe that the universe was designed with you in mind..that God has a special plan just for you, that you know not only what he wants or what he said, but that he cares about you and what you do, and that you are the lucky saved one while everyone else in the "wrong" religion (or no religion) will perish. Yet, I do not hear any Christians concede that *they* could be wrong? "This kind of modesty is too arrogant for me." - Christopher Hitchens

Isn't it much more humble to view yourself as just a spec, on a blip, in this universe and that in the grand scheme of things, you are insignificant?

 

[hdb]

Hi Cathym,

The first question I want to ask you is, how are you?

To be honest, I have not read the whole thread. But in the last pages I noticed that you are looking for logical answers regarding the Bible. I think there is also the problem. It is about faith. Faith is not something I can explain. Nor is it something I can just give it to someone. I think, that a real christian isn't the one that overload you with bible verses and so on. A true christian seeks the best for his fellow men. Why, because we believe in Jesus who who said, Love God above all, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength and with whole your soul. And love your neighbor as yourself. Why do I believe in Jesus? Well that is an question where I don't have an answer on. It is my faith, that's why Jesus said: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. it is faith. I find peace and strength in my believe. Because of my faith, I feel a connection to Jesus, why? Don't know, it is my faith in Him... Because of that I oversee all my actions in my live and want to do good as much as possible. I am holy, no, certainly not I also have my mistakes, but it sorrows me, why, because the person I have faith in said "care for your fellow men, the same as you care for yourself".

Why is Jesus then the person I want to have faith in? Because I believe he saved me from my sins. Is this an excuse for my mistakes? No certainly not.
I just believe that a man is not able to seamlessly life. But I do believe in a creator that such a life requires of us . That is why Jesus came to us , to do the will of His father for us. Again, that does not make me free of my wrong actions. But I want to live for His glory. Love God above all, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your strength and with whole your soul. And love your neighbor as yourself. But my faith is, that I can appear without fear before God, because Jesus bore the punishment for me.


I hope you do not think that this is an excuse to hide my sins. A true Christian want to live according to the two things mentioned above. Anyone else who does not live like that, but says that Jesus is there their savior, is a hypocrite.

You know, it is faith, faith is not to explain. Anyone who used religion for their own interests ( and believe me , that happens very often! ) Is not a Christian.

I'am not trying to convert you, that's not in my power to do. But I can recommend you to read the Bible again. I also want to share with you some good thing to do. Just take some paper and write in large letters the name Jesus on it. Then, when you read the Bible you try to do it in the light of Jesus. What does this person mean to me on every page.


Can I pray for you? I do not mean this pious But it is my faith That He will listen to all the programs or pray His children (you see, faith again .


God bless you Cathym

Ps. I come from the Netherlands, so sorry for my bad English

 

[danschance]

I still feel that she is being treated poorly by those that claim to be Christians.

Ich, I understand. I think it is a matter of perspective.

Suppose I said things like Joseph Stalin was an atheist and a mass murder.
Pol Pot was an atheist and a mass murderer.

All atheists are mass murderers. (She claimed this about Christianity)

Then I accused atheism as being irrational (She did this about Christianity)

Then I posted a story of an atheist who while drunk killed a 3rd grade girl who was kind to frogs and very pretty. Then I claimed this is the fruit of atheism. (She did this too)

I think you would be highly offended as well. Right?
I mean lets say I posted that at a forum for atheists, how do you think that would be received?
You are probably right, if an atheist comes here bashing Christianity, they will probably be banned.

 

[Cycel]

I think you would be highly offended as well. Right?
I mean lets say I posted that at a forum for atheists, how do you think that would be received?

You'd probably be branded a troll.

 

[danschance]

You'd probably be branded a troll.

I appreciate your honesty, thank you.

 

[Simona25]

Ich, I understand. I think it is a matter of perspective.

Suppose I said things like Joseph Stalin was an atheist and a mass murder.
Pol Pot was an atheist and a mass murderer.

All atheists are mass murderers. (She claimed this about Christianity)

Then I accused atheism as being irrational (She did this about Christianity)

Then I posted a story of an atheist who while drunk killed a 3rd grade girl who was kind to frogs and very pretty. Then I claimed this is the fruit of atheism. (She did this too)

I think you would be highly offended as well. Right?
I mean lets say I posted that at a forum for atheists, how do you think that would be received?
You are probably right, if an atheist comes here bashing Christianity, they will probably be banned.

One of the reasons why the pharisees couldn`t stand Jesus Christ is because they were approaching Him with a greasy-false-politeness and in return, Jesus Christ responded honestly and straightforward.

 

[Ichabod]

All atheists are mass murderers. (She claimed this about Christianity)

Then I accused atheism as being irrational (She did this about Christianity)

Where did she claim ALL Christians are mass murderers? I missed that one.

Where did she accuse ALL Christians of being irrational? I missed that one too.

I think everyone is just overreacting a little bit here. I don't really get offended
if someone mocks my beliefs. So what?

 

[Cycel]

Why do Christians accuse Atheists of being arrogant?

You don't think Dawkins or the late Christopher Hitchens ever came across as arrogant? I happen to agree with most of what they both say, but I do think Dawkins often appears arrogant and Hitchens, always so; Dan Dennett much less so and Sam Harris probably not at all. I've seen Harris criticize Dawkins for his approach and Neil deGrasse Tyson has in person publicly criticized Dawkins. Not all atheists are arrogant but many are.

We do not say there isn't a God, we just say we have no evidence to prove the existence.

Well, many of us atheists do say there are not any gods. Its true that Dawkins has stated publicly that he cannot completely rule out the possibility of God, but many atheists do categorically deny God's existence.

If we came across that proof tomorrow, and that proof held up to rational and actual examination, then we would say There is a God. I concede that I could be wrong and that there is one.

Well, with this I do agree with you.

Christians believe that the universe was designed with you in mind..that God has a special plan just for you, that you know not only what he wants or what he said, but that he cares about you and what you do, and that you are the lucky saved one while everyone else in the "wrong" religion (or no religion) will perish. Yet, I do not hear any Christians concede that *they* could be wrong? "This kind of modesty is too arrogant for me." - Christopher Hitchens

Hitchens is mostly right about that. It is the rare Christian who will acknowledge that he might be wrong in his belief about God.

I think that many atheists do leave open the possibility that God might exist even if they are only giving his existence a 0.99% chance of probability. The fact that some atheists return to their Christian roots is evidence of the strong draw that belief exerts.

PS Welcome to the forum Cathym.

 

[megaman125]

Ya know, when I ask Theists a question, I do not then proceed to belittle, insult, or otherwise engage in anything other than intelligent and thoughtful discussion.

So calling everyone who isn't atheist irrational isn't belittling or insulting? And then you wonder why we don't take you seriously, like it's some big mystery to you.

To do otherwise, is not going to further the conversation from either side. I will never convert you (I'm not trying to) and you will never convert me (I hope you aren't trying). But the purpose of the conversation is to genuinely try to see it from someone else's perspective even if you politely disagree.

Which you aren't doing, as evidenced by you coming in here and insulting all non-atheists' intelligence and associating every Christian as being a mass murdering pedophile just becuase some people who claimed be Christian fits those descriptions. Of course, you're cry fowl at the top of your lungs if we tried to associate you with the likes of mass murderers who were atheists like Stalin.

Quoting the Bible to prove God to an Atheist is like an Atheist quoting harry potter to prove harry potter. It means nothing to me. To me, the Bible, thankfully, is a work of complete fiction.

No one is trying to prove God to you. We don't need to do that, and we have no interest in convincing someone who doesn't want to be convinced.

Where did she claim ALL Christians are mass murderers? I missed that one.

Where did she accuse ALL Christians of being irrational? I missed that one too.

You should try reading her posts sometime, like post #1102, among others.

I think everyone is just overreacting a little bit here. I don't really get offended
if someone mocks my beliefs. So what?

Christians aren't your welcome mats were you get free reign to trample them however you desire with no consequences in return. We don't have to sit here, nod our heads, and accept blatent trolling.