Attack of the Judaizers

[Elin]

Elin, How can one be saved and keeping braking the moral laws of God?

Where are you getting that idea about me?

 

[Hoffco]

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the second table of the 10 commandments. Elin, please stop "nip-picking". You are hurting yourself and others by not accepting the full teaching of the New Cov.. Salvation starts with sanctification and con'ts with sanct, and ends with sanct. Salvation makes us people "zealous for good works," loving and keeping the laws of God. as stated in the N.T.. love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Elin, you are saying ,salvation is by faith alone no works are required. I am just taking you at your words, and your words are coming back to trouble you. But your mind is closed to the full word of God, you are sealed in you prison of ignorance. Love Hoffco

 

[GregoryC]

Is the Sabbath Required for Christians Today? | Grace Communion International

 

[Elin]

Elin, How can one be saved and keeping braking the moral laws of God?

Where are you getting that idea about me?

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the second table of the 10 commandments.

Is it called that anywhere in Scripture?

Or is that your name for it?

Elin, please stop "nip-picking". . .Salvation starts with sanctification
and con'ts with sanct, and ends with sanct.

What to you is "nit-picking," is to others accuracy in handling the word of God, as in your

"salvation starts with sanctification."

Salvation is forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77) through faith alone.

Forgiveness of sin removes our guilt and gives us right standing before God, which Paul calls "justification."

Justification results in adoption into God's family where we then begin
taking on the family characteristic of holiness
(sanctification), through the obedience of faith (not through "breaking moral law")
by the power of grace.

You are hurting yourself and others by not accepting the full teaching of the New Cov.

The New Covenant made in the blood of Christ is simply
God's promise of salvation from his wrath (Ro 5:9)
by forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
to those of saving faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:16, 36).

Salvation makes us people "zealous for good works," loving and keeping the laws of God. as stated in the N.T.. love Hoffco

Yes, that is why we practice the obedience of faith which sanctifies.

I still don't understand why you say I am "breaking the moral laws of God."

 

[Galatians2-20]

While I'll be the first to agree that there those present who would try to impose Old Testament law on New Testament believers, there are various sects within Christendom who believe that if you do not embrace their concept of grace, you too are Judaizer whether you are or not.

I've been called a Judaizer by this camp because I believe & whole heartedly embrace 2 Peter 1:2-10 which teaches us that the indwelling Christ (ie. Holy Spirit) empowers New Testament believers to live the Christian life. One can plainly point out how the fruits (divine attributes) of the Holy Spirit made manifest in and through us provides everything necessary to be obedient to the Word of God and that no man can please God or fulfill the law through human effort no matter how hard we may strive, yet you are still called a Judaizer because you believe that obedience (regardless of how it happens) is possible on this side of eternity.

Go figure...

 

[Elin]

Elin, you are saying salvation is by faith alone no works are required.
I am just taking you at your words,

Are you sure they are my words?

Eph 2:8-9 - "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works"

Ro 3:21 - "But now a righteousness (right standing) from God, apart from the law has been made known. . .This righteousness (right standing) from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ
to all who believe."

Ro 3:28 - "A man is justified (made right with God) by faith, apart from observing the law."

Gal 2:16 - "know that a man is not justified (made right with God) by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ."

your words are coming back to trouble you.

But your mind is closed to the full word of God, you are sealed in you prison of ignorance.

You must have me mistaken for someone else.

 

[danschance]

Elin, you are saying ,salvation is by faith alone no works are required.

I can't think of a verse in the bible that states we must earn our salvation. Yet I can think of a verse that claims we are saved by faith and not of works.

I am just taking you at your words, and your words are coming back to trouble you. But your mind is closed to the full word of God, you are sealed in you prison of ignorance. Love Hoffco

As far as the portion of your post above goes, it lacks Christian love. It seems full of hatred, accusation and venom. I think it might be best if you were to apologize to her for your offensive words. Women deserve respect even if they have an opinion that is not the same as yours.

 

[Hoffco]

To danschance My apology to any who were offended by my blunt accusations to Elin, (Elin included), BUT, there was no hatred or venom in my words. Soo, please do not SMEAR me this way. We must be open and blunt in a debate, as all of us are. Love to all, this is always true, Love to all. Hoffco

 

[danschance]

Thank you. We all can get angry at times. I myself am not perfect but I am trying.

 

[Elin]

THERE ARE THESE:

Anyone who knows they are disobeying God, living a lawless life, is like the Jew in Rom.2, teaching God's holy law but in his life disobeying God's holy law, ie. "do not steal" but still steals, this man is lost in his sin. No confusion here, if God forbids it it is sin.
In this age , rejoice in eating pork, God does not forbid it. But if you sin again a stupid conscience, it would be sin for you, SOOO,
my advice, to you, is for you to study only the N.T, ,for a while, and see what God forbids for us today,!

I have no confusion in my mind as to
God's laws for our despensation. It is what is stated in the N.T. only. The
7th day sab. has been dropped, the Sun. "Lord's day" has replaced sat. sab.. The rest of the moral law has not changed.
There is a big area of freedom on what we do, but all has to be to the glory of God. And all we do must be from a clean conscience., in faith. Please read my posts for all the details. love to all, Hoffco

AND THEN THERE ARE THESE:

Elin, How can one be saved and keeping braking the moral laws of God?

Where are you getting that idea about me?

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the second table of the 10 commandments.

Is it called that anywhere in Scripture?

Or is that your name for it?

Elin, please stop "nip-picking". . .Salvation starts with sanctification
and con'ts with sanct, and ends with sanct.

What to you is "nit-picking," is to others accuracy in handling the word of God, as in your

"salvation starts with sanctification."

Salvation is forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77) through faith alone.

Forgiveness of sin removes our guilt and gives us right standing before God, which Paul calls "justification."

Justification results in adoption into God's family where we then begin
taking on the family characteristic of holiness
(sanctification), through the obedience of faith (not through "breaking moral law")
by the power of grace.

You are hurting yourself and others by not accepting the full teaching of the New Cov.

The New Covenant made in the blood of Christ is simply

God's promise of salvation from his wrath (Ro 5:9)
by forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
to those of saving faith in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:16, 36).

Salvation makes us people "zealous for good works," loving and keeping the laws of God. as stated in the N.T.

Yes, that is why we practice the obedience of faith which sanctifies.

Elin, you are saying, salvation is by faith alone no works are required.

I am just taking you at your words,

Are you sure they are my words?

Eph 2:8-9 - "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works"

Ro 3:21 - "But now a righteousness (right standing) from God, apart from the law has been made known. . .This righteousness (right standing) from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ
to all who believe."

Ro 3:28 - "A man is justified (made right with God) by faith, apart from observing the law."

Gal 2:16 - "know that a man is not justified (made right with God) by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ."

and your words are coming back to trouble you.
But your mind is closed to the full word of God, you are sealed in you prison of ignorance.

You must have me mistaken for someone else.

Is it just me. . .or is there an unclear trumpet call being sounded here (1Co 14:8)?

 

[Hoffco]

I was not angry , I was very sad, I can quote scriptures that proves my point; but very few have the insight to see what the Bible is saying. ROMAMS 6:22 shows the necessity of good works for salvation, "But now having been set free from sin and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, EVERLASTING LIFE," How clear can GOD be? Good works are necessary for EVERLASTING LIFE. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

I was not angry , I was very sad, I can quote scriptures that proves my point; but very few have the insight to see what the Bible is saying. ROMAMS 6:22 shows the necessity of good works for salvation, "But now having been set free from sin and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, EVERLASTING LIFE," How clear can GOD be? Good works are necessary for EVERLASTING LIFE. Love to all, Hoffco

Hey Hoff, good works do not come from following the Law; it is from the fruit of the Tree of Life!
It is the evidence that you are born of God in Jesus, and these good works come from the Holy Spirit!
In other words these good works follow those who are led by the Spirit!
But these good works do not come from you following the Law, but the Spirit!

There are Scripture that tells us to love Jesus, God, His Spirit, The Law of Grace;
but I'm not sure there is one for the Christian faith to love the Old Covenant Law?
i study the Law of Moses that I might better understand somethings, because it is in the Scripture.

Just a few of my thoughts

 

[Hoffco]

I said NOTHING of following the LAW of GOD. The verse says. good works of righteousness come from being "enslaved to God". How would you interpret "enslaved to God"? OK, to me, it would mean, we will obey God's laws for us in the New Testament. The POINT is, good works are required for ETERNAL LIFE, RIGHT? Hoffco

 

[Elin]

I was not angry , I was very sad, I can quote scriptures that proves my point; but very few have the insight to see what the Bible is saying. ROMAMS 6:22 shows
the necessity of good works for salvation, "But now having been set free from sin and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, EVERLASTING LIFE," How clear can GOD be? Good works are necessary for EVERLASTING LIFE.

Are you setting the Scriptures against themselves in

Eph 2:8-9 - "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith. . .not by works"

Ro 3:21 - "But now a righteousness (right standing) from God, apart from the law has been made known. . .This righteousness (right standing) from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ
to all who believe."

Ro 3:28 - "A man is justified (made right with God) by faith, apart from observing the law."

Gal 2:16 - "know that a man is not justified (made right with God) by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ."

Part of the problem is your unclear understanding and distinctions
of the meanings of "salvation," "justification" and "sanctification."

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

I said NOTHING of following the LAW of GOD. The verse says. good works of righteousness come from being "enslaved to God". How would you interpret "enslaved to God"? OK, to me, it would mean, we will obey God's laws for us in the New Testament. The POINT is, good works are required for ETERNAL LIFE, RIGHT? Hoffco

So what's the problem then Hoff,
You take everything as if it were said to you personally!
even if it's not!

If you say you know the way, then follow it!
This is a thread about the attack of the Judaizers!
Those who are trying to import the Law of God into the Christian Faith!
If your not trying to do this, then stop walking on both sides of the fence and calling everyone else crazy!
You have the right to your opinion, and I'm glad that you exercise it, your a lot of fun sometimes!

Good works are the evidence, of God's presents in ones life.
many blessings

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

you can't argue someone into seeing what they have chosen not to see. If you need to go through a whole bunch of mental gymnastics with big fancy words that are nowhere found in scripture, you are calling into subject the sufficiency of God's Word

one thing gets me though. Nowhere does it threaten those who love justice and mercy, but it does say woe to them who break the commandments, and teach others to do the same. So if I'm wrong, no big deal, whereas if you're wrong, woe...

...whatever woe gets you, it's debatable, but it can't be good.

 

[JGIG]

you can't argue someone into seeing what they have chosen not to see. If you need to go through a whole bunch of mental gymnastics with big fancy words that are nowhere found in scripture, you are calling into subject the sufficiency of God's Word

one thing gets me though. Nowhere does it threaten those who love justice and mercy, but it does say woe to them who break the commandments, and teach others to do the same. So if I'm wrong, no big deal, whereas if you're wrong, woe...

...whatever woe gets you, it's debatable, but it can't be good.

The commandments of God after the Cross:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn 3)​

And this:

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal 5)

​

And this:

4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. (from Gal 5)​

Trying to be justified by Law, whether for salvation or to try to maintain one's salvation means one alienates themselves from Christ.


Woe.

-JGIG

 

[danschance]

you can't argue someone into seeing what they have chosen not to see. If you need to go through a whole bunch of mental gymnastics with big fancy words that are nowhere found in scripture, you are calling into subject the sufficiency of God's Word

one thing gets me though. Nowhere does it threaten those who love justice and mercy, but it does say woe to them who break the commandments, and teach others to do the same. So if I'm wrong, no big deal, whereas if you're wrong, woe...

...whatever woe gets you, it's debatable, but it can't be good.

I agree that once a person has a closed mind, especially on a religious matter, it is nearly impossible to debate them into changing their mind. I have a Mormon friend who for a long time I tried to convert him but it was a big waste of time. Had I spent my time with him by being a good witness and shown him The love of the Lord, perhaps he would of been saved.

Christians are not lawless as it has been said. Christians are under the law, just not the Mosaic law. So if one follows the Mosaic laws when Christ has set us free from them, that person would be in a state of disobedience or rebellion with God. Is there no consequence for following the Mosaic law? Yes there might be:

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Gal 5:4

One who thinks they are justified by the law might be severed from God. This is the sternest warning in the bible. Just something to consider.

 

[danschance]

The commandments of God after the Cross:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn 3)​

And this:

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal 5)

​

And this:

4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. (from Gal 5)​

Trying to be justified by Law, whether for salvation or to try to maintain one's salvation means one alienates themselves from Christ.


Woe.

-JGIG

Thanks for posting Galatians 5:18. I missed that one.

I agree with your post. We do need to follow the Spirit of God in all our ways, but some people may not like that as they prefer black and white laws.