Attack of the Judaizers

[LT]

Elin, where do you get the idea that the "Greeks" who intermarried with Jews were a mixture of the other "families of the earth" (Amos 3:2)? You are reading this into the text. The "Greeks" were Israelites, non-Jew Israelites of the dispersion. This is who the Pharisees were speaking of when they said, "will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles and teach the Gentiles" (John 7:35). The Gentiles in this context were the Greeks you speak of, the non-Jew Greek speaking Israelites of the dispersion. These were the "...other sheep I have which are not of this fold" (John 10:16). The Jews therefore, were not marrying out of their race, they were marrying after their kind, a command repeated throughtout scripture. The religious establishment does not want us to know this.

are you literally saying that I can't marry a woman who is another ethnic group?

The Spirit of the Law is to not marry a non-believer. Race is of no consequence.

 

[john832]

There is no "letter of the law" nor is there "spirit of the law" in the NT.

There is only "the letter" and "the Spirit."

"Letter of the law" and "spirit of the law" are man-made notions, which are the basis of your false dichotomy.

Your just making this up as you go, aren't you?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[john832]

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I am wondering, because of your "belief" that Jesus "rose from the dead" on a Sunday, if you believe He was placed in the grave on Friday? Only can count 3 nights and 3 days if He was buried on a Wednesday, just before sundown and therefore He rose before the close of the Sabbath. He was discovered to have already risen on the first day when the women came to the grave. You have zero proof He was risen on the first day, only a speculation. What I have is assurance that He died on Nisan 14, which was a Wednesday. At sundown on that Wednesday would be the beginning of Nisan 15th. If you know the OT, Leviticus 23 explains all the Feast of God (no, they are not Jewish Feast, God said they are HIS and for all His children for ever.) Oh wait! I'm bad...you are not God's children of Israel. Never mind. The scriptures don't apply to you.

Perhaps this scripture applies to you, since you are a Gentile...

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

100 over 100!

 

[LT]

Now, in light of the scriptures I posted in Post #277, do you believe that you should keep the Commandments or not?

I keep them, and strive to do more, but not for my salvation.
This is why you are lost. Because you believe your salvation is on your own effort in fulfilling the Law.

I follow the Law of God, and encourage others to do so, not out of fear of hell, but out of appreciation for heaven.
(and fear of God's discipline in this life)

Your lack of freedom is dependent on your enslavement to the Law, which all are freed from if they accept the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Elin]

I think this is really the crux of the issue. Either God lied, or we have 2 different gods. God told His people that He chose, to do certain things forever, for eternity. And that by them doing them, He would be pleased.

Then Jesus comes along, and we assume that He is doing away with all of the these things (even though He never said so).

So either:
1) God lied when He said to do those things forever, but changed His mind when He came in the flesh as Jesus.
2) Jesus supercedes God by getting things right in the NT, thereby implying 2 different Gods, where 1 is more correct than the other.

Or

. . . . .3) You don't believe the entire NT and set the epistles against the gospels.

Heads up: that's proof of erroneous understanding of the word of God.

 

[Elin]

The Jews are fine
they are the church of God
the Jews by blood were stiff necked so Jesus had to go to the pagans to convert a few and make them Jews by faith through the dark days
when the PAGANS attacked and took over his church

Salvation is not of the pagan caucasion sun god worshippers
Salvation is still of the Jews

My Jesus is Jewish
do you love him?
He wants to adopt you into the Jewish truth and take you into the Jewish temple
but the Pagan hypnosis says
salvation is of the caucasions and all you have to do is say Jesus is Lord and Jesus is come in the flaesh
and they believe the lie and make him caucasion

silly

go to any store
by a picture of Jesus
he is caucasion

they have become craxy with money power and cant read

Ohm hey, there is good money in this religious stuff!
Let us go and build large churches with widescreen tv's and have pizza parties!
let us build basketball courts in our temples

they have lost their minds...


John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit and in truth: for the father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


the truth is Jewish
my Bible is Jewish
every prophet is Jewish
Abraham is Jewish
by FAITH Abraham is Jewish see?

He is father of all us Jews
he was a caucasions and God converted him to a Jew and all who join him God makes Jewish by faith

anyone wants to prove it read your Bible

the new Jerusalme has twelve gate

each one has over the door the name of a Jewish tribe and every one of the twelve foundations is a Jewish disciple
and no one who is not a Jew by faith or a Jew by blood will ever enter there.

Better wake up man,
time to get out of caucasion Babylon and come to the Jewish Bible

every writer in the Bible was Jewish.

Spoken like a true Judaizer. . .or would that be true Messianic?

 

[KohenMatt]

Or

. . . . .3) You don't believe the entire NT and set the epistles against the gospels.

Heads up: that's proof of erroneous understanding of the word of God.

Actually, I believe that the Espistles completely agree with Jesus, who is in complete agreement with the Torah.

If our interpretation of the Epistles leads us to come against Jesus' words regarding the Law, our interpretation is wrong.
If our interpretation of Jesus' words leads us to come against the Torah, our interpretation of Jesus is wrong.

God told His people to follow the Law forever.
Jesus told His followers to follow the Law until heaven and earth pass away.
The Epistles HAVE to (and do, in my opinion) agree with this if we're to believe they're inspired by God. Any other conclusion we draw from the Epistles is faulty.

God said forever, Jesus said forever and never spoke against the Law. The Epistles agree. The fact that Jesus didn't address the Sabbath or other OT commands doesn't negate them. It means He has nothing to add to them. The foundation and truth was already laid out by Himself in the OT.

 

[Elin]

Well, here goes another round of criticism for me but then, I have never really cared much what people think of me...

Anyhoo, what is the state of Israel currently?

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

They cannot see the truth because God has blinded them. Why?

Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

They are blinded so that God can have mercy on them in the future. They have been blinded by God and will receive mercy.

We also read...

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Notice the old is obsolete and READY to vanish away? It hasn't, it is just ready to. There is a big difference between being ready to and already have. If you are ready to die, is that the same as having died? Big difference.

There are still under the only Covenant they can see or understand. Who is responsible for that?

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 Just as it is written: "GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR, TO THIS VERY DAY."

So, is God a Covenant breaker or Covenant keeper? Will Israel be under the Old Covenant until God grants them sight and understanding? Or will He just go back on His word and discard them for what they had no control over?

Criticism is too weak a word.

You've got some serious studying, reckoning and reconciling of Scripture to do.

 

[Historicist]

Truth is found in the Word of God. I am glad to see that so many in this forum trust the Word of God.
It hurts to see several wolves in among the sheep.

It also seems that you don't mind being called a legalist...

I didn't want to name names, but you just identified yourself.

LT, where in scripture do you find the word legalist? Please, put down that guitar and pick up a Bible. "Legalist" is a term not in scripture. It is used by anti-nomians (those opposed to the Law of the Lord) as a type of smear against those who expose New Age evangelicals. Remember, "sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Please read Psalm 1, Psalm 119, Matthew 5:17-19; 7:21-23 on the Law of the Lord. These clearly tell us that it was, and would not, be abrogated, "for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). What you are advocating therefore, is legalized sin. Please reconsider.

 

[LT]

LT, where in scripture do you find the word legalist? Please, put down that guitar and pick up a Bible. "Legalist" is a term not in scripture. It is used by anti-nomians (those opposed to the Law of the Lord) as a type of smear against those who expose New Age evangelicals. Remember, "sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Please read Psalm 1, Psalm 119, Matthew 5:17-19; 7:21-23 on the Law of the Lord. These clearly tell us that it was, and would not, be abrogated, "for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). What you are advocating therefore, is legalized sin. Please reconsider.

Attacking me personally for having a guitar?
Somebody sounds jelly...

'legalist' is not a Biblical term, but it aptly describes one who has faith in works for salvation. Should we go through your posts and notice every word that is not a Bible quote?.
Anti-nomian? New age? Evangelical? Guitar? XD

If you believe works are involved in salvation, you reject all of the Epistles, and you reject the work of Christ.
Is there any more that can be said?
You scoff, as if I have been brainwashed. Your lack of understanding amuses me, but your harsh words annoy.

You claim that I am misled, but yet you have no flaw to bring against me, except my musical ability and my youth.

 

[Elin]

Lemme see here...

Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!'
For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

Yeah. . .lemme see here. . .

"The kingdom does not come with observation" (v. 20); i.e., it is invisible. . .because "it is within you." (v. 21)

"You" here, as is common, is in the general sense, it is not specific to the Pharisees.

 

[Hizikyah]

Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Why would the world be cursed and BURNED for "transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance" if the Law were done away/changed?

NT parallel to show Isayah 24 is endtime prophecy.......that is future.

Mattithyah 24:21-22, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."

 

[Elin]

Just speculation on my part, but I don't think Historicist is the one here with faulty understanding.

Assertions without demonstration are without merit.

 

[Elin]

People who hate Jews won't like it in heaven
There will be a lot of Jews there
and they will keep the Sabbath...
Read your
Jewish Bible

If you repent it may be Jesus will adopt you,
repentance means saying sorry for anti-Jewish sentiments.

And that would be Bible 9:18?

 

[RedTent]

Wrong. . .do you not know the NT any better than that?

"The ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs (OT High Priests) as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
If there had been nothing wrong with the first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
But God found fault with the people and said. . .'I will make a new covenant. . .
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first (old) one (Sinaitic) obsolete.
And what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." (Heb 8:7-8, 13)

What part of "disappear" do you not understand?

In order to understand scripture, the whole of scripture must be looked at, and when one verse is said to cancel our many verses, then there is misunderstanding. All scripture agrees that Christ gave a superior way to redemption, that part is confirmed. Now we must know that something is obsolete, and find out what. Is the entire scripture giving us the principles of God obsolete? Of course not. Are we to learn to get rid of God because God sent His Son? Of course not. We learn that at the resurrection, Christ led the saints who were asleep to paradise with Him. Christ was a better way. But those saints were loved and cared for before, they didn't say that every way they knew God before was wrong because now I am, through Christ, going to heaven.

We are to look to scripture to find out exactly what Christ did, and exactly how Christ changed our world. When people say that Christ wiped everything out, every law, every covenant, and created our world completely new, they are denying scripture. God wasn't inferior and ineffective for 4,000 years, and a new God arrived as some are saying.

 

[Elin]

What part of will soon being future not past tense do you not understand?

The "it's now 2,000 years later" part.

 

[Elin]

Elin, where do you get the idea that the "Greeks" who intermarried with Jews were a mixture of the other "families of the earth" (Amos 3:2)? You are reading this into the text. The "Greeks" were Israelites, non-Jew Israelites of the dispersion. This is who the Pharisees were speaking of when they said, "will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles and teach the Gentiles" (John 7:35). The Gentiles in this context were the Greeks you speak of, the non-Jew Greek speaking Israelites of the dispersion. These were the "...other sheep I have which are not of this fold" (John 10:16). The Jews therefore, were not marrying out of their race, they were marrying after their kind, a command repeated throughtout scripture. The religious establishment does not want us to know this.

Tamar, Rahab and Ruth were Gentiles, which in the NT are often called Greeks.

"There is neither Greek nor Jew. . ."

 

[Elin]

There is no (phrase) "letter of the law" nor is there "spirit of the law" in the NT.

There is only "the letter" and "the Spirit."

"Letter of the law" and "spirit of the law" are man-made notions, which are the basis of your false dichotomy.

Your just making this up as you go, aren't you?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

You're not paying attention, are you?

Read it again.

 

[Elin]

In order to understand scripture, the whole of scripture must be looked at, and when one verse is said to cancel our many verses, then there is misunderstanding. All scripture agrees that Christ gave a superior way to redemption, that part is confirmed. Now we must know that something is obsolete, and find out what. Is the entire scripture giving us the principles of God obsolete? Of course not. Are we to learn to get rid of God because God sent His Son? Of course not. We learn that at the resurrection, Christ led the saints who were asleep to paradise with Him. Christ was a better way. But those saints were loved and cared for before, they didn't say that every way they knew God before was wrong because now I am, through Christ, going to heaven.

We are to look to scripture to find out exactly what Christ did, and exactly how Christ changed our world. When people say that Christ wiped everything out, every law, every covenant, and created our world completely new, they are denying scripture. God wasn't inferior and ineffective for 4,000 years, and a new God arrived as some are saying.

None of that alters the text stating the New Covenant has made the Old (Sinaitic) Covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13).

One either believes the plain unequivocal NT word of God, or one does not.

 

[jag1977]

Who believes jesus christ is Lord? #2 Who believes something else?