Attack of the Judaizers

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danschance said:
I believe the bible is saying that a person who believes "Christ plus any portion of Mosiac law has lost their salvation unless they repent. The two verses I posted state this.
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danschance, I believe Christ and I also believe and obey that portion of the Mosiac law which says "thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13). Does this mean that you anti-nomians are saved and I am not?

 
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Oh ok the "combination" ...I hear you loud and clear. You are right, I don't know much about the bible. I'm looking forward to learning much more.
 
Historicist said:
No, the proper term is Old Covenant, or Moses and the prophets.
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Some said part of the last 27 books belongs to old covenant. i.e. writings before Christ died on the cross. Some said the first 39 books were old covenant. Is 1 Cor 3:14 referring to the first 39 books and/or part of the last 27 books?
 
Hizikyah said:
Some guy with a fish hat, Yahweh never made a distinction nor did Yahshua.
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and him and his people's main diet is...?
Seriously weren't they put together like this by church "fathers" and they were all God's VALID words until recently?
 
Who the pope? Bread and wine...milk? I don't know. I only spoke of meat. God and jesus in the flesh. I don't think I took anything from the "NT""" but you are tracking so did I?
 
no one is telling you to stop worshipping the old testament. Just stop trying to force it on others. Simple enough.
 
KohenMatt said:
Then the difference is that you think God only meant the spiritual circumcision and the spiritual sabbath was eternal, not the physical command.
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Yes. Sabbath and circumcision are forever but not in the same state. Yes, it started out as something required of men to do but after Christ died it was transmuted to a different state, not necessarily a spiritual form. That is why in Col. 2:17 it says: "the shadow of things to come"

KohenMatt said:
I don't see where God makes that distinction in the OT. I don't see where Jesus makes that distinction. Obviously, there is a spiritual depth and application to those things in light of our relationship with God. But God never eliminated the physical obedience. But some people think Paul did.
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Again Col 2:17 disagrees with you.
things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
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This verse claims sabbath observance and other ceremonial laws are just shadows of things to com. Like the temple was once a place for God to dwell but after the death of Christ God dwells in the hearts of men and our very bodies become the temple of the whole Holy Spirit. This means the former physical obedience has transmuted to a different state. This means people who are still observing the sabbath are not observing sabbath in the new transmuted form which God has willed.


 
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Historicist said:
danschance, I believe Christ and I also believe and obey that portion of the Mosiac law which says "thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13). Does this mean that you anti-nomians are saved and I am not?
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Christians are clearly to obey the laws of Christ and that clearly includes abstaining from Murder. The only difference is the Jews had an external requirement only. Christians on the other hand must also guard their thoughts as Christ said if you have looked on a woman with lustful thoughts then you are guilty of adultery, even tho' you have never touched her. The same is true for murder. If you want to kill a person then you are already a murder. Jesus upped the ante on moral sins. So I find it humorous that you call me a "anti-nomian". LOL
 
just-me said:
starting with the OP the progressive conversations of previous post before this on. I quoted all of them so we would be on the same page. Thank you. Just asking questions, and then all can learn from them.


So do you think it was part of God’s perfect plan to have His Words downgraded by His own son?

Do you realize Sabbath and rest mean the same and are referring to cease from ones own works? And you are labeling those who observe the Sabbath as being legalizers by their own works? That is a clear 180-degree contradiction. You speak oxymoron stuff.

Hebrews 4:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

What did God do on the first Sabbath made for us? The Sabbath was made for man to cease from their own works and you are saying they are keeping the Sabbath and that is their own works. WOW! Evidently you feel justified by your works of denying the Sabbath and saying it’s wrong, and are justified by teaching others not to cease from their own works same as yourself.

Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I didn’t see you address these verses as I searched through your thread twice to see if I missed something. Maybe you can point out to me the post that you are referring to?
You said previously that Jesus was not referring to the Mosaic Law when I quoted
John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Are you saying now that Moses is not equated with the law?
Strong’s 3551 Law means “food for grazing” all the way through the NT, and there are exceptions such as “father in law, and daughter in law, mother in law, lawlessness etc.

Strong’s 460 in Romans 2:12 (KJV) means those who are lawless will die without the “food for grazing”.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For as many as have sinned without law (460) shall also perish without law (3551) and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 7:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22[/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Romans 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7[/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
These three verses, that you said you addressed, all are Strong’s 3551 as inGalatians 2:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Knowing that a man is not justified by the *works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Self justifying *“works” (2041, an obligated effort by means of self justification) is what to focus on, not the ones who observe this food for grazing. To observe the law through faith is right. As long as I have been in CC, I have never seen anyone say that they are justified by the observance of the law and say that’s right to do minus faith. All the people that are observers of the Mosaic Law advocate a sincere faith.

So we see the original intent of our Father in Heaven was to give us food for grazing such as the spiritual meaning of the manna given the desert of Sinai. We should never say that this food is corrupt because of the completion of God’s purpose through Christ Jesus. It is another oxymoron that you would want people to be lawless. I’m sure that isn’t your intention, but that’s exactly what you are teaching.
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Yes, I answered this in post #436.
 
1still_waters said:
Yeah it's just that I've heard the shadow trusters scoff at being called Judaizers, simply because they themselves aren't preaching circumcision. So if the scope of Judaizer is confined to just circumcision, then possibly a better word needs to be used. *shrugs*
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Ouch. (:<)
 
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