K
Karraster
Guest
Who is puffed up? The one who hears and obeys the Word, or the one who thinks he knows better than the Creator?
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Who is puffed up? The one who hears and obeys the Word, or the one who thinks he knows better than the Creator?
K
Karraster
Guest
K
Karraster
Guest
it was originally Greek? that's news to me!! then translated to English? Are ya skippin a few languages there Buddy?
P
phil112
Guest
K
Karraster
Guest
There is more evidence than what is referenced. This just to name a few sources. It may not be generally agreed upon, however one day perhaps we will know. I believe it was originally Hebrew.
A study of the writings of the Christian "Church Fathers" shows that much of the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew. This includes direct statements made by; Papias, Ireneus, Origin, Eusubius, Epiphaneus, Jerome and Clement of Alexandria.
4. The prominent first century historian Josephus wrote in both his books, Antiquities and Wars, that Hebrew was the language of first century Jews and that they did not know Greek. (In fact there is a Jewish tradition saying it is better to eat swine than learn Greek.)
5. Modern linguistics (thanks to the input of cognisant Messianic Jewish and gentile scholars) shows that the text themselves don't lend to an "original Greek" translation. A very good book you want to get with dozens of examples is, The Semitic Origin of the New Testament, by James Trimm. This can be ordered via www.nazarene.net. Also recommended is the Hebrew/Aramaic New Testament Research Institute at www.nazarene.net/hantri/
6. Other books, such as The Jewish New Testament, by David Stern are also helpful in showing the Hebrew thought that gets lost in the Greek/English. (The latter can be ordered through Amazon.com.)
A study of the writings of the Christian "Church Fathers" shows that much of the "New Testament" was written in Hebrew. This includes direct statements made by; Papias, Ireneus, Origin, Eusubius, Epiphaneus, Jerome and Clement of Alexandria.
4. The prominent first century historian Josephus wrote in both his books, Antiquities and Wars, that Hebrew was the language of first century Jews and that they did not know Greek. (In fact there is a Jewish tradition saying it is better to eat swine than learn Greek.)
5. Modern linguistics (thanks to the input of cognisant Messianic Jewish and gentile scholars) shows that the text themselves don't lend to an "original Greek" translation. A very good book you want to get with dozens of examples is, The Semitic Origin of the New Testament, by James Trimm. This can be ordered via www.nazarene.net. Also recommended is the Hebrew/Aramaic New Testament Research Institute at www.nazarene.net/hantri/
6. Other books, such as The Jewish New Testament, by David Stern are also helpful in showing the Hebrew thought that gets lost in the Greek/English. (The latter can be ordered through Amazon.com.)
L
LT
Guest
From what I've been learning in school, only the Gospel of Matthew shows signs of Aramaic origin. The rest (especially the works of Luke and Paul) are solidly rooted in Greek origin.
Hebrew was not a the common tongue of the Jews in the 1st century. Aramaic was. Hebrew was like Latin is today: used in educational and religious ceremonies, but not understood by the common person.
Hebrew is more used today than any time since the Exile to Babylon.
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L
LT
Guest
If I can trust my professors, it was stated as a fact in several courses.
Luke was definitely written in Greek, as Luke was a Greek, not a Jew.
And Luke also wrote Acts
K
Kerry
Guest
L
LT
Guest
D
danschance
Guest
I also have read that with the information the deep sea scrolls opened up there is more reason to believe even lots of the New Testament was originally in Hebrew.
More important, I think, is understanding the change that was happening in the world between the greek thinking that Alexander the Great ushered in, and the difference it made in understanding from Hebrew thinking. Greek thinking was called Hellenism. A lot of misunderstanding of the OT is due to our not understanding the way Hebrew thought was, we are so immersed in our way of thinking.
P
psychomom
Guest
thanks, guys.
and Elin, though the Greek word apeitheia isn't in Heb 4:2 (that I see), it is in Heb 4:6. (and other places in the passage)
your point is the conclusion I was trying to draw in my page 3 post.
you both drive me to further study...hooray!
B
Bazman
Guest
So I see so much argument over God's law. The thing is the Mosaic Law had ceremonial laws and moral laws. I don't think anyone is in disagreement that the Moral Laws were always and will always be in place ie adultery is wrong no matter what and to say that Jesus did away with that would be ludicrous.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The thing is mentioned over and over again in the New Testament is the Ceremenoial part of the law should not be imposed on Gentiles.
Colossians 2 16-17
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
I find it really bizarre that we are still having this debate. So when we are told to keep God's commandments in the New Testament these are the Moral Laws plus the Ceremonial laws that are linked to the NEW Covenant ie Baptism and the Lord's supper (The Lord's supper so obviously not in the OLD covenant).
Do we even know what the word Testament even means! Testament - Covenant - Contract. Ie two contracts for 2 different situations after all the Hebrews writer summed it up by saying:
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So to me if there is a change in the Priesthood there is a change in the Law. Paul recognised this when he said that the weaker brother was keeping days, and the dietary law...
Romans 14 v1
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.
v5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
He does go on further though that he who keeps the dietary laws or the Jewish holy days or he who doesn't we shouldn't judge each other. (Romans 14 v 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.)
Which comes to my point the aim is to love not to have arguments over things which now don't matter in the New Covenant. See what Paul says in Galatians.
Galatians 4 10-11
10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
See how he says I fear for you... He is concerned that they are trying to keep the Mosaic Ceremonial Law he goes further...
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
This is as plain as day I don't see why we try and twist God's word when he would not make it complicated.
Why are we having these pathetic arguments all the time when the key to the whole law is to Love God and Love others - moral code to the Law. So if we love we will be able to keep the commandments that we are asked to keep. Let's try and love one another and all the more as we see the day approaching.
Please don't in fight and judge one another for as the Book of Romans suggests you will end up passing judgement on yourself! (Romans 14:10 - You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.)
God Bless.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The thing is mentioned over and over again in the New Testament is the Ceremenoial part of the law should not be imposed on Gentiles.
Colossians 2 16-17
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
I find it really bizarre that we are still having this debate. So when we are told to keep God's commandments in the New Testament these are the Moral Laws plus the Ceremonial laws that are linked to the NEW Covenant ie Baptism and the Lord's supper (The Lord's supper so obviously not in the OLD covenant).
Do we even know what the word Testament even means! Testament - Covenant - Contract. Ie two contracts for 2 different situations after all the Hebrews writer summed it up by saying:
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
So to me if there is a change in the Priesthood there is a change in the Law. Paul recognised this when he said that the weaker brother was keeping days, and the dietary law...
Romans 14 v1
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.
v5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
He does go on further though that he who keeps the dietary laws or the Jewish holy days or he who doesn't we shouldn't judge each other. (Romans 14 v 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.)
Which comes to my point the aim is to love not to have arguments over things which now don't matter in the New Covenant. See what Paul says in Galatians.
Galatians 4 10-11
10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
See how he says I fear for you... He is concerned that they are trying to keep the Mosaic Ceremonial Law he goes further...
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
This is as plain as day I don't see why we try and twist God's word when he would not make it complicated.
Why are we having these pathetic arguments all the time when the key to the whole law is to Love God and Love others - moral code to the Law. So if we love we will be able to keep the commandments that we are asked to keep. Let's try and love one another and all the more as we see the day approaching.
Please don't in fight and judge one another for as the Book of Romans suggests you will end up passing judgement on yourself! (Romans 14:10 - You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.)
God Bless.
people letting their flesh deceive them to think they righteous by following the law...it's like a goat pretending to be a lamb, but it's still a goat, the very bible itself said without christ our very nature is against the 10 commandments we sin automatically and can't help it, the 10 commandments is the shadow that points to God, it shows who God is but our very nature is against it, that is why we have to be born again, some of you can't see this because i'm going to be honest with you this is going to sting... how can you say your born again and can't see this? if in us without christ we can't help but sin against the law what do you think will happen when our very NATURE is born of God, wouldn't it walk righteous automatically this is what you alll continuously, thread after thread keep missing and you can't understand it because you haven't felt it the change isn't in you within the heart, so you have to be " trying to keep" " trying to do the right thing" just shows you haven't experienced God, if your spirit have the same spirit that christ had in him, you will walk righteously automatically because the nature of christ is your nature, the old man is literally dead went back into the earth cease to exist you are born of God if your born again
K
Karraster
Guest
That is very presumptuous to say those who love Torah and Messiah are in the wrong. Messiah kept Torah and taught it. We are governed by thousands of man made laws. And you say forget Torah? Torah is love Yahuah Almighty and love our neighbor. That is Torah. 10 Words. Not hard. That's what it means to walk in His ways.
What makes no sense is to say love Messiah, hate Torah. Messiah wrote Torah.
That's a yepper!THANK YOU..... Unlike LT - I guess I can stand the heat in the kitchen.....