Baptism, Born again, how are they connected?
- Thread starter Azawah
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
that's some pretty hefty bias confirmation.
it isn't there
by that logic, we should also search for 'scripture where Jesus tells us to get on the laptop and debate over scripture'
it isn't there
one does not follow the other and neither do your suppositions
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
hopeless
there was as yet no new covenant
further, John's baptism was not for salvation. it was for repentance
Jesus had not died, not resurrected, so baptism could not have been added as part of salvation
if you insist on Christ as the example here, that is forgiveness of sins, then what sins do you see Jesus committing prior?
you baptism saves people are so busy selecting your favorite verse package for water salvation, you ALWAYS fail to see that what you choose does not support the reasons for NT baptism
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
you too need to understand that John's baptism was for repentance and not salvation
the repentance, admitting of sins and turning from them, was for forgiveness of said sins. John 3:6 says that people were confessing their sins. they wanted to come clean before God.
if it was for salvation, sins forgiven, then what sins did Jesus commit?
why did John ask Jesus why He wanted to be baptized? John said that Jesus should baptize him. Matthew 3:14
so again, John was not baptizing for salvation. absurd to say that he was, since man cannot forgive sin
what Jesus is saying regarding the fulfillment of all righteousness, is declaring Himself righteous (response to John)
Jesus had no need of repentance or forgiveness of sins. in Him, is the righteousness and forgiveness for all mankind
Isaiah 53:11 says that by the righteousness of the One, shall the righteousness of many be fulfilled or accounted for
that's a little hard to follow, so much easier to misapply the meaning and tag it onto other verses to make it say...FORCE IT....to say, something that it does NOT say
the 'Chopped up Handy Dandy Undiscerning Believer's Bulletin' aka 'The Awkard Bible', never really makes any sense, unless you choose to follow the teaching of equally awkward people who pull the covers over their head's at night and sleep like a baby that just simply does not know any better to begin with
I just said that baptism in water is something that all christians must get. I did not said anything about its meaning.
All christians were baptized in water in the first century. The baptism in water must be in the name of Jesus ... and that means it is not the same as baptism that John practiced on jewish people before the christian comunity was formed.
Baptism in spirit is another diferent baptism. In the first century some got baptized first in water and later in spirit; others were baptized first in spirit (like Cornelio and his famly) and later in water. Baptism in spirit was very different of baptism in water, and today is something very difficult to determine if someone is being baptized in spirit ... At the time someone says he had been himself baptized in spirit, works speak better than words.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
All christians were baptized in water in the first century. The baptism in water must be in the name of Jesus ... and that means it is not the same as baptism that John practiced on jewish people before the christian comunity was formed.
Baptism in spirit is another diferent baptism. In the first century some got baptized first in water and later in spirit; others were baptized first in spirit (like Cornelio and his famly) and later in water. Baptism in spirit was very different of baptism in water, and today is something very difficult to determine if someone is being baptized in spirit ... At the time someone says he had been himself baptized in spirit, works speak better than words.[/QUOTE]
well then did you hire a ghost writer to supply this?:
Baptism in water is mandatory for Christians as Preston39 showed with Scriptures. That's why the christian baptism in water is not the same baptism John applied.
why do you folks think you need to teach scripture to those who actually understand it?
I explained why John's baptism does not fit the narrative you tried to insert it into
and you come back with a fuzzy explanation about how I must have misunderstood you...ie the "I just said' and then a bunch of backpeddling
so which is it? (rhetorical question)
no one is questioning baptism
however it does not save you nor does it wash away your sin
ONLY THE BLOOD CHRIST CLEANSES FROM ALL SIN
the devil WANTS to water that down...literally apparently, because he cannot stand anything about the blood of Christ and cowers before Him
Baptism in spirit is another diferent baptism. In the first century some got baptized first in water and later in spirit; others were baptized first in spirit (like Cornelio and his famly) and later in water. Baptism in spirit was very different of baptism in water, and today is something very difficult to determine if someone is being baptized in spirit ... At the time someone says he had been himself baptized in spirit, works speak better than words.[/QUOTE]
well then did you hire a ghost writer to supply this?:
Baptism in water is mandatory for Christians as Preston39 showed with Scriptures. That's why the christian baptism in water is not the same baptism John applied.
why do you folks think you need to teach scripture to those who actually understand it?
I explained why John's baptism does not fit the narrative you tried to insert it into
and you come back with a fuzzy explanation about how I must have misunderstood you...ie the "I just said' and then a bunch of backpeddling
so which is it? (rhetorical question)
no one is questioning baptism
however it does not save you nor does it wash away your sin
ONLY THE BLOOD CHRIST CLEANSES FROM ALL SIN
the devil WANTS to water that down...literally apparently, because he cannot stand anything about the blood of Christ and cowers before Him
You may be a disciple of the one with the "noisy vocabulary" ... I just gave my opinion based on what I know from the Scriptures. My words have nothing to do with you or anybody else ... I don't focus on people here, and I won't generate or entertain conflicts about persons.
Luk 2:14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.”
James 3:18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.
Peace to you.
Luk 2:14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.”
James 3:18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.
Peace to you.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
oh there you go
get all defensive when someone points out how you have said two distinct things and shoot at the person who did it
your words are on a public forum and have everything to do with everyone here
if you don't want anyone quoting you pm the people you wish to engage
otherwise, it's all up for grabs
anything else you say will be wah wah wah because you have already started that
It is true: I am runnig from something, but it is not from you but from conflicts ... Expressions like "the Chopped up Handy Dandy Undiscerning Believer's Bulletin' aka 'The Awkard Bible" tell me that I must not stay on that kind of dialog to avoid the same vocabulary, it is a "weird" vocabulary from my christian point of view. Some people here think they must fight and destroy people ... I don't focus on people but on ideas, the same way it is said:
Eph 6:12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.
Don't get offended because of this; I am just running away from certain word exchanges that do not combine with my personality or intentions.
Eph 6:12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.
Don't get offended because of this; I am just running away from certain word exchanges that do not combine with my personality or intentions.
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7seasrekeyed
Guest
well welcome to my offbeat sense of humor then
you know, we are allowed to laugh and have a little fun too. I certainly do not at all think you or anyone else has to fight and destroy people...but I will be pretty 'sharp' when it comes to some things
best to not take things personal...but I can get pretty peeved with your friend there, preston whom you quoted, (and others who do what he did) because he addressed me in a way that suggested I needed help etc etc. that is what we call a personal attack or an ad hominum attack, and it is nothing to do with the op
you don't get offended either. but here it is: I AM baptized in water, and in the Holy Spirit and I am well acquainted with Ephesians 6
thing is, Eli, your friend crossed the line and others who believe baptism saves also cross the line
so, you know, one thing to discuss and another to basically tell people they are not saved because they do not believe baptism saves anyone...or washes their sins away
I'll just keep saying this, I guess, but
ONLY THE BLOOD OF THE MESSIAH, JESUS, SHED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS, WASHES AWAY OUR SINS WHEN WE ACCEPT HIM AS OUR SAVIOR
speaking in tongues does not save you...I do speak and pray in tongues....water baptism does not save you...I am water baptized
that's where I stand
well welcome to my offbeat sense of humor then
you know, we are allowed to laugh and have a little fun too. I certainly do not at all think you or anyone else has to fight and destroy people...but I will be pretty 'sharp' when it comes to some things
best to not take things personal...but I can get pretty peeved with your friend there, preston whom you quoted, (and others who do what he did) because he addressed me in a way that suggested I needed help etc etc. that is what we call a personal attack or an ad hominum attack, and it is nothing to do with the op
you don't get offended either. but here it is: I AM baptized in water, and in the Holy Spirit and I am well acquainted with Ephesians 6
thing is, Eli, your friend crossed the line and others who believe baptism saves also cross the line
so, you know, one thing to discuss and another to basically tell people they are not saved because they do not believe baptism saves anyone...or washes their sins away
I'll just keep saying this, I guess, but
ONLY THE BLOOD OF THE MESSIAH, JESUS, SHED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS, WASHES AWAY OUR SINS WHEN WE ACCEPT HIM AS OUR SAVIOR
speaking in tongues does not save you...I do speak and pray in tongues....water baptism does not save you...I am water baptized
that's where I stand
Hummmm!!...does ..... repentance...... save you?[
well welcome to my offbeat sense of humor then
you know, we are allowed to laugh and have a little fun too. I certainly do not at all think you or anyone else has to fight and destroy people...but I will be pretty 'sharp' when it comes to some things
best to not take things personal...but I can get pretty peeved with your friend there, preston whom you quoted, (and others who do what he did) because he addressed me in a way that suggested I needed help etc etc. that is what we call a personal attack or an ad hominum attack, and it is nothing to do with the op
you don't get offended either. but here it is: I AM baptized in water, and in the Holy Spirit and I am well acquainted with Ephesians 6
thing is, Eli, your friend crossed the line and others who believe baptism saves also cross the line
so, you know, one thing to discuss and another to basically tell people they are not saved because they do not believe baptism saves anyone...or washes their sins away
I'll just keep saying this, I guess, but
ONLY THE BLOOD OF THE MESSIAH, JESUS, SHED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS, WASHES AWAY OUR SINS WHEN WE ACCEPT HIM AS OUR SAVIOR
speaking in tongues does not save you...I do speak and pray in tongues....water baptism does not save you...I am water baptized
that's where I stand
Hi 7,
I wonder if some are confused with extrapolation.
John's baptism was a baptism for the forgiveness of sins. It equated forgiveness with a ceremony.
Now we all know guilt and wishing things we had not done, and seeking forgiveness and cleansing.
John seems to be preaching a ceremony that does this. It is unusual as no one else had ever done this
except maybe Naaman and his leprosy, told to wash in the Jordan by Elisha.
Jesus commands His disciples to baptise people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit along with
obedience to everything He has commanded.
The cross is the atoning sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, and baptism a symbol of rebirth in the Spirit.
So though baptism is the outward symbol of an inward change it is still important as a witness of Christ
in our lives. I suspect that these are all true, and we are simply called to fulfil them just as Jesus did
himself. And in this I rejoice that at the end we will see as the Lord sees, and know the balance, God bless
you.
Yes it is a symbol;
So is repentance;
So is righteous living;
So is witnessing;
So, is...so is...etc.
Tell it like it is in the Bible;......baptism is required as part of the sin cleansing process.
There is no PC when it comes to G-d's word.
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
uh huh. and let me guess. people who do not agree with baptism as an addition to salvation, as in washes away sins, are the ones extrapolating?
the Jews used baptism as RITUAL cleansing for those who converted to Judaism long before John the Baptist. it is interesting that John turned it around and used that same type of ritual on the Jews themselves. John's baptizing the Jews had a special purpose and people did not actually have their sins forgiven by this act anymore than they do today. then, as now, it was SYMBOLIC
John specifically told people to believe in the One, Jesus, who was coming AFTER him. John's baptism was, again, SYMBOLIC and represented repentance...that is to change your mind and go in another direction...turn away from sin here. if the baptism of John in water took away sin, then why did Jesus have to die?
let me answer that. He had to die because ONLY His blood purifies us in the eyes of God. not water as some here, yourself included, profess.
unless now you are going to state that baptism is SYMBOLIC and while we as Christians are baptized, immersed in water, this does not actually and could never, wash away sins as does the blood of Christ
it seems to me I have seen you state that water baptism does remove sin
please clarify
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You and your lies will be brought out on day
I pray you repent before that day comes
As for your question
Read the Bible from genesis to revelation you will see baptism was never required
I don't understand your emotions when you are wrong. Just admit it and move on.
I am becoming convinced you cannot read basic English. If there is another language you would be better at let me know I will translate this for you;
"Mark 1:4 tells us that baptism is for the remission of sins....."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."
Acts 2; 38-40.... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....."save yourself".
Acts 22;16..... (Saul required to be baptized)...."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Matt.3;11...
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit [] and fire.
Matt 3;14,15... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fullfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matt., 28: 18-20... And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Mark 16;16... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
I Peter 3;21....... The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
John 3:5.... Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Gal 3;26-27..... For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ
Acts 2: 38-40.... Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [a]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this [b]perverse generation
Acts 9; 14,15,16,18..... And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 19:5-6..... When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom. 6;3,4...know ye not,that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 ....Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: like Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
There are more.
But, if you don't accept these of G-d's word no others will help you, probably.
Don't wait. Bring the basis for your accusation on out.
We are waiting.
I don't appreciate your accusations...pal.
Hi Preston,
EG has his frame of reference, his belief system and ignores anything in scripture that suggests otherwise.
Do not imagine everyone you speak to is rational or does not suffer from cognitive dissonance.
This means his mind will not allow him to see things that contradict his beliefs, ie he see what he wants
to see.
Emotionally I have been there, it is a tough place. Scripture clearly teaches baptism of John was for the
forgiveness of sins. We are commanded by implication to incorporate this into our theology, as it is scripture
the highest authority in our lives, but then for some the highest authority is really their own ideas and
theology, which this situation demonstrates.
God bless you as you walk in His ways.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I do not understand your emotions or your thinking
Non of those passage prove what you claim and they sure do contradict the many verses which say something else if taken with you interpretation
I will stick with gods grace and mercy. You continue to BOAST in your physical baptism
Friendly exchanges, "You and your lies"
And what is the subject in dispute, clear scripture declaring forgiveness of sin linked to physical baptism.
It is hard to lie about facts, because facts are facts. Only incompetent pompous hot wind bags blow at
the truth and claim something else. Any sane person stops, adjusts their story and includes the facts.
This is how we know what delusion is and what truth is. We are founded on truth, whether we like it or
not, it dominates. Once you give in to bullying and invention, anything can be true, literally because one
has made ones imagination and conviction the definers of what is true and what is false, which is the
beginning of insanity.
I have seen this individual have this problem time and time again, yet they want to change the world
to suit their convictions, which is truly a bad place to be. God bless you.