Baptism for the dead (1 Cor 15:29)

[Pilgrimshope]

I certainly agree with everything the Apostle Paul says and I respect your position.
Again, always a pleasure.

Yes brother I know that about you and I also know that about Aaron that’s why I appreciate you two so much

and it’s also the reason I’m presently boggled because Paul said this

“There is one body

and one Spirit,

just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

one Lord,

one faith

one baptism;

one God and Father of all,

who is over all and through all and in all.”( Christ again )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

i think you guys are probably talking about what baptism means for us , what it does for us , because there is a lot that baptism means but there’s one baptism given to us in Christ

God bless and keep you dearly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pilgrimshope is a truth seeker, not an arguer. :heart:

I believe, once we see there are 4 baptisms, many positions about baptisms clear up.

brother is this taught in the Bible ? If it is you can very easily convince me with those scriptures but if they aren’t there I am never going to be able to reach that conclusion nd I have never read about four baptisms in the Bible I’ve read a whole lot about one baptism but never even heard of four

it could be that your just able to understand better an i but I can’t wrap my head around more than one baptism

I mean to be clear I know John said this

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬

But that’s is what I showed you in those scriptures when that came forward it is this water and spirit John was talking about and it’s just one doctrine one baptism

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,( water )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We baptize in water for remission and Jesus puts out his spirit upon and into us

Its just the word John used to describe receiving the Holy Spirit only Jesus can do that

 

[birdie]

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? "

When Paul was converted, his sins were washed away, and he received new life in Christ. This occurred so that he could be a light to those who were dead in their sins (unsaved) and to turn them to Christ. We read why he was converted: "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. "

So, we could say that Paul was baptised for the dead. He was washed and forgiven for the sake of those he would turn to Christ. It is the same for other true believers.

 

[Aaron56]

brother is this taught in the Bible ? If it is you can very easily convince me with those scriptures but if they aren’t there I am never going to be able to reach that conclusion nd I have never read about four baptisms in the Bible I’ve read a whole lot about one baptism but never even heard of four

it could be that your just able to understand better an i but I can’t wrap my head around more than one baptism

I mean to be clear I know John said this

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬

But that’s is what I showed you in those scriptures when that came forward it is this water and spirit John was talking about and it’s just one doctrine one baptism

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,( water )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We baptize in water for remission and Jesus puts out his spirit upon and into us

Its just the word John used to describe receiving the Holy Spirit only Jesus can do that

Of course the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It’s by the same spirit that we cry out to God our Father, confirming our place in His House.

Jesus gave the Spirit to His disciples when He breathed on them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” (Jn 20:22) and with the Spirit the authority to forgive sins.

But He tells them to tarry in Jerusalem until they are clothed with power from on high. This is the baptism in (or with) the Spirit which the Lord accomplishes from heaven.

The Samarian believers had yet to receive the immersion of the Spirit although they had been baptized in water in the name of Jesus.

"Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

There's no question they went under water in the name of the Lord, but they had yet to receive the baptism with the Spirit. They did not go under the water again, the apostles merely laid hands on them, another elementary doctrine.

Another time Paul was at Ephesus where he found some disciples. This exchange took place:

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Again, this is the baptism with the Holy Spirit because power is the evidence of that baptism.

I know a certain man who was speaking at a gathering regarding the baptism with the Spirit. An older lady approached after the message and asked to know more about this baptism. The man asked if she had been baptized in water, to which she answered affirmatively. She also had the indwelling of the Spirit, knowing that she was a child of God. But she had yet to receive the power of the Holy Spirit.

The man offered to lay hands upon the woman so that she might receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit. She paused, and said that she was concerned that she would be dancing all around and making a fool of herself. She did not want any of that.

The man assured her that the Lord has heard her concern and that such things are not as common as some make them out to be. So she agreed.

So, that man laid hands on her and said, "Lord Jesus, our Father, you know Beth (not her real name). She has been your child for some time now. Today she has asked for the power of the Holy Spirit. As one sent to her by your grace, I ask that you baptize her in the Holy Spirit."

Immediately her eyes opened wide with surprise, she took a long deep breath and exclaimed "Oh Lord Jesus!" and raised her hands in the air. After some standing and praying she sat down in a seat in the front of the auditorium and prayed softly to God with tears running down her face. She tarried so long the man had to ask her to leave the building with the last group out so the custodians could lock the doors.

To this day this woman walks in power with the Lord in the form of wisdom, peace, prayer, and courage.

So, no amount of exegesis or Hebrew study can convince me that there is only one baptism.

Hebrews, which was written after the letter to the Ephesians, says that there are baptisms. And, I can find all of them in scripture.

However, there is only one baptism that places us in the body of Christ: the baptism of the Spirit. He knows who we are and he places us accordingly. No amount of our effort can change our placement.

If we understood this, the baptism by the Spirit, and were taught it as an elementary doctrine from the beginning, there would be fewer church denominations and factions: the children of God would weep over how we have fractured His House today.

And before someone says, "Well, we're too far down that road today for any realistic discussion about denominations and fractures" I see where God will stir a message within one, two, or a dozen, or hundreds for the need for repentance upon a certain matter. Understanding of the elementary doctrines are needed today more than many other things. Without them, the members of the body of Christ will tolerate sectarianism. God forbid.

With love my friend,

Aaron56

 

[Pilgrimshope]

With love my friend,

Aaron56

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?””

right they had been baptized by John and hadn’t heard the gospel that teaches about receiving the Holy Spirit.

They didn’t even hear what John was preaching so Paul tells them what John was saying “ I baptize you with water he that comes after will baptize you the holy spirit . They were baptized but Jesus hadn’t went into heaven and sent the holy spirit yet

they had already been baptized for remission all Paul does is inform them about the holy spirit that comes through Jesus

Its the same thing again the difference is this particular group hadn’t received the spirit because they hadn’t t heard of it

you can’t receive anything by faith until you hear about it this is a particular situation brother a group that was baptized by John but then weren’t around to hear the gospel be preached. BY Jesus otherwise they would have heard about the holy spirit and received it after Jesus ascended to the throne and sent it

Jesus repeatedly said “ I’m going to the beer for hand of God and will send you the promised comforter the Holy Ghost “ in the gospel he said it

And it happened just like he said

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭

when jesus breathed on them it’s a figure for God breathing life into man in genesis two at mans creation . Pentocost is when they received the spirit it’s not a two step process its based on Whether you believe what you hear that group hadn’t heard about the spirit

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ we havent even heard there is a holy spirit “ tha the why they hadn’t received the spirit you can’t believe anything you have never heard and can’t receive from God things you don’t believe all they heard was baptism for remission of sins they didn’t hear what Paul told them later until he told them “ what John said

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul informed them of what they hadn’t known and by faith they received the spirit same as this but there’s a lot of space between for them because they didn’t hear the second part of this until Paul came along

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( they all did that )


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( they hadn’t even heard that )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You receive the spirit by hearing about it from the gospel and believing or “the hearing of faith “

paul laying his hands on them has nothing to do with it but Paul preaching the dispel to them had everything to do with it because they had only heard johns ministry and not even his message about belieiving in Jesus and receiving the spirit

Brother there’s one baptism like Paul explains this is the one baptism

“and preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:7-8‬

It’s one when it comes to pass what your seeing as two ( or I guess four ) is this one baptism both aspects come in this one baptism

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what John said he was doing and what he said Jesus would do in one baptism

at our seeing what John said beforehand and not what itnis when it came to pass

Jesus breathed on them as a figure of this creation of a new man

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they coild t receive the Holy Spirit until Jesus arrived at the throne it’s what he himself said

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when this happened when he went away

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he fuflilled his promise pentocost

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s when they received the Holy Ghost now because he’s there when anyone hears the gospel and believes they receive the holy ghost

Like this

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, ( an exhibition of a spiritual gift ) and magnify God.

(?they have now received the holy spirit )

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. ( then they are all baptized ) Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There isn’t different stages of receiving the spirit you either believe what Jesus said about the spirit and receive the spirit or you don’t when you do that power of God is within you

This is complete and contains both aspects of what John said

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬

baptism is just baptism brother there’s one baptism in the church doctrine the baptism of this and baptism of that are just two aspects of one baptism something we hear about and do by faith and then the resulting promise of Jesus and what he’ll do for us

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? "

When Paul was converted, his sins were washed away, and he received new life in Christ. This occurred so that he could be a light to those who were dead in their sins (unsaved) and to turn them to Christ. We read why he was converted: "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. "

So, we could say that Paul was baptised for the dead. He was washed and forgiven for the sake of those he would turn to Christ. It is the same for other true believers.

“
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aaron56]

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?””

right they had been baptized by John and hadn’t heard the gospel that teaches about receiving the Holy Spirit.

They didn’t even hear what John was preaching so Paul tells them what John was saying “ I baptize you with water he that comes after will baptize you the holy spirit . They were baptized but Jesus hadn’t went into heaven and sent the holy spirit yet

they had already been baptized for remission all Paul does is inform them about the holy spirit that comes through Jesus

Its the same thing again the difference is this particular group hadn’t received the spirit because they hadn’t t heard of it

you can’t receive anything by faith until you hear about it this is a particular situation brother a group that was baptized by John but then weren’t around to hear the gospel be preached. BY Jesus otherwise they would have heard about the holy spirit and received it after Jesus ascended to the throne and sent it

Jesus repeatedly said “ I’m going to the beer for hand of God and will send you the promised comforter the Holy Ghost “ in the gospel he said it

And it happened just like he said

“Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:33‬ ‭

when jesus breathed on them it’s a figure for God breathing life into man in genesis two at mans creation . Pentocost is when they received the spirit it’s not a two step process its based on Whether you believe what you hear that group hadn’t heard about the spirit

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“ we havent even heard there is a holy spirit “ tha the why they hadn’t received the spirit you can’t believe anything you have never heard and can’t receive from God things you don’t believe all they heard was baptism for remission of sins they didn’t hear what Paul told them later until he told them “ what John said

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul informed them of what they hadn’t known and by faith they received the spirit same as this but there’s a lot of space between for them because they didn’t hear the second part of this until Paul came along

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( they all did that )


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( they hadn’t even heard that )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You receive the spirit by hearing about it from the gospel and believing or “the hearing of faith “

paul laying his hands on them has nothing to do with it but Paul preaching the dispel to them had everything to do with it because they had only heard johns ministry and not even his message about belieiving in Jesus and receiving the spirit

Brother there’s one baptism like Paul explains this is the one baptism

“and preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:7-8‬

It’s one when it comes to pass what your seeing as two ( or I guess four ) is this one baptism both aspects come in this one baptism

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what John said he was doing and what he said Jesus would do in one baptism

at our seeing what John said beforehand and not what itnis when it came to pass

Jesus breathed on them as a figure of this creation of a new man

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they coild t receive the Holy Spirit until Jesus arrived at the throne it’s what he himself said

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when this happened when he went away

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he fuflilled his promise pentocost

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s when they received the Holy Ghost now because he’s there when anyone hears the gospel and believes they receive the holy ghost

Like this

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, ( an exhibition of a spiritual gift ) and magnify God.

(?they have now received the holy spirit )

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. ( then they are all baptized ) Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There isn’t different stages of receiving the spirit you either believe what Jesus said about the spirit and receive the spirit or you don’t when you do that power of God is within you

This is complete and contains both aspects of what John said

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬

baptism is just baptism brother there’s one baptism in the church doctrine the baptism of this and baptism of that are just two aspects of one baptism something we hear about and do by faith and then the resulting promise of Jesus and what he’ll do for us

I think the catch is: wherever you read "baptize" you think "water". Baptize simply means immersion.

Answering Ananias' reservations about Saul/Paul as a chosen vessel of the Lord, the Lord said "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

This is the baptism of fire. The Lord immerses us in the Spirit and in fire. Fire is for our refinement and is required for every son of God.

To the Ephesians (in Acts) Paul wrote: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, 19 serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews..."

James would write : "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

And the writer of Hebrews wrote:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?

11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

All God's children are baptized with fire. This is what produces righteousness: if we submit to His chastening.

I am always amused at those who, some of them are the worst people I know, quote 2 Timothy 3:16 to say that Bible study makes us more mature.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

No. This is saying that the scriptures are "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". It is the combined work of obedience to doctrine, correction from the Lord or our elders, and walking in righteousness that the believer may be thoroughly equipped and complete in maturity.

The baptism of fire teaches us to obey God. This correction is at the hand of the One who loves us as a perfect father loves his children: Christ Jesus.

Aaron56

P.S. If a congregation begins singing "Let Your Fire Fall" it may be best to exit the room.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think the catch is: wherever you read "baptize" you think "water". Baptize simply means immersion.

Answering Ananias' reservations about Saul/Paul as a chosen vessel of the Lord, the Lord said "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

This is the baptism of fire. The Lord immerses us in the Spirit and in fire. Fire is for our refinement and is required for every son of God.

To the Ephesians (in Acts) Paul wrote: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, 19 serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews..."

James would write : "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

And the writer of Hebrews wrote:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?

11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

All God's children are baptized with fire. This is what produces righteousness: if we submit to His chastening.

I am always amused at those who, some of them are the worst people I know, quote 2 Timothy 3:16 to say that Bible study makes us more mature.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

No. This is saying that the scriptures are "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". It is the combined work of obedience to doctrine, correction from the Lord or our elders, and walking in righteousness that the believer may be thoroughly equipped and complete in maturity.

The baptism of fire teaches us to obey God. This correction is at the hand of the One who loves us as a perfect father loves his children: Christ Jesus.

Aaron56

P.S. If a congregation begins singing "Let Your Fire Fall" it may be best to exit the room.

brother

“I think the catch is: wherever you read "baptize" you think "water". Baptize simply means immersion.”

ive said several times baptism has very deep meaning so no lol I don’t think that at all brother

Im saying John the Baptist is a prophet

when he said this the second part is a prophecy that’s going to later be fulfilled by Jesus

“I indeed have baptized you with water:

but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and I’m saying this to you Jesus said this in the gospel to his disciples

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after jesus rose from the dead


“, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:3-5, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

(?over fourty days Jesus was with the disciples and told them to wait until they received the spirit then they would have power and then )

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What im saying my beloved brother is johns prophecy is fulfilled at pentocost when they receive the power of the Holy Spirit like Jesus told them would happen

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:2-4, 33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

my simple point to you is now the message is not “ Jesus will someday baptize you with the Holy Spirit “ it becomes one baptism one act you aren’t waiting for anything , now the gospel has been preached and the spirit is freely given to anyone that believes baptism is just the one action it’s performed on water lol that’s all I’m saying bro we don’t baptize anyone with the spirit Jesus fills our hearts with his spirit because we believe in him

theres just one baptism in our doctrine meaning what we are taught to do in the church for remission of noir sins in Christs death burial and resurrection

It’s one action of faith you hear it , believe the promise of remission and then you act. His promise of the spirit Comes to believers freely remission of sins is what baptism is


“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,



and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying baptism from johns point of view before the gospel was preached is of two

pauls point of view of one baptism is after Johns prophecy was fulfilled and Jesus shed the spirit into the world at pentocost

We exist now after John so we need to agree to Paul and Peter and John and them

 

[Aaron56]

There are many things we may be immersed in.

Hebrews, written after Ephesians, records baptisms. I can find four in the scriptures and examples of each. Would you like me to expand upon them further?

Curious though: why do you think that the baptism with the Spirit may be given by the laying on of hands?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are many things we may be immersed in.

Hebrews, written after Ephesians, records baptisms. I can find four in the scriptures and examples of each. Would you like me to expand upon them further?

Curious though: why do you think that the baptism with the Spirit may be given by the laying on of hands?

because brother We receive the Holy Spirit not by any work but by faith you have to hear the message before you can believe

the remission of sins has always been why we get baptized no one John baptized ever received the spirit because Jesus hadn’t died yet John was foretelling the giving of the Holy Spirit to the church later


i always enjoys discussing with you brother even the very few matters we havent agreed on you always have such a good spirit and always a sound argument to make for your position

your always a good example in how you interact with others that’s such a pleasure

 

[Aaron56]

because brother We receive the Holy Spirit not by any work but by faith you have to hear the message before you can believe

the remission of sins has always been why we get baptized no one John baptized ever received the spirit because Jesus hadn’t died yet John was foretelling the giving of the Holy Spirit to the church later


i always enjoys discussing with you brother even the very few matters we havent agreed on you always have such a good spirit and always a sound argument to make for your position

your always a good example in how you interact with others that’s such a pleasure

I am, one might say, in over my head about what I believe about baptisms.

I love you brother. One day we will know all our Father knows without question.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am, one might say, in over my head about what I believe about baptisms.

I love you brother. One day we will know all our Father knows without question.

yeah you know sometimes just different perceptions of something like this



“I am nothing but an unworthy sinner to God

So you could never convince me , that

I am a beloved child of the King

because when all is said and done in life

im worth nothing , and I’m going to die

and I’m sorry I will not believe those tales

“God calls Me his beloved son “

I will always believe this statement

“I’m not worth saving “

there’s really no way to convince me that

He would give his life for mine

No matter what could ever be said

I am worthless , he couldn’t love me

there’s nothing I see that tells me to believe

I am a child of the Living God , our Lord

So thank you preacher for preachin’

I’ll always know who I am .”


( Now read each line from bottom to top to see the change of perception of the same words )