i understand brother, but i have never seen evidence of its secession, what you are talking about is the start of each one.
and really there are only two main starting points of it, acts two and 8 are nit together because the Samaritans received
it buy the Hebrew heritage, while in acts 10 it was the opening of the gentile church. there starting points.
and for that consideration i also ask what would be the point in 1 cor 14 if toungs were not meant to still be active today
1 Corinthians 14King James Version (KJV)
14 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
this is clearly to instruct on the usage of tongues[/QUOTE
Hi wanderer, sorry for delay.
as I wrote before, I see in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19 only signs for the jews that the Holy Spirit came and it is for everybody and not only for the jews as they expectet. I cant find in the further scripture a teaching ore mentioning that a believer can have a second expierience (baptising with the Holy Spirit) and as sign for that speaking in tongues.
Why 1 Cor.14 is not for today?
Paul wrote in his list of gifts in Romans 12 nothing about the so called sign gifts: speaking in tongues, healing and prophecy.
Romans is a very detailed letter and if the sign gifts would play a role in church we would expect that he mentioned them too.
If you read 1. Cor.12, you find that Paul wrote that not all have the gift of speaking in tongues! Vers 28-30 (sorry i cant copy) The questions which he asking in 29 and 30 expecting a NO.
Also 1. Cor.14,5 suggest that not all are speaking in tongues.
If this would be for today too. I would expect a strong witness in the church history and I would also expect it undepent from denomination. This would be for all christians who receive the Holy Spirit!
With other words, the pentecostel movement which starts in 1900 would be superfluous, because all churches in this time had already the gifts of speaking in tongues ore healing ore prophecy. But this was not the case!!
There where movements in the churchhistory like the montanists in the 2nd century which had a big influence over a time from several centurys, but they was founded from a false prophet. The practiced speaking in tongues too. But was a sect. can it really be that behind a sect is the Holy Spirit?
The teaching from speaking in tongues as sign for be baptised with the Holy Spirit came up with the pentecost movement.
In the Bibel I find no hint, that the speaking in tongues as a gift was connectet with a 2nd baptising with the Holy Spirit.
If we read 1. Cor. 12 and 14 it appears as a normal gift which was recived like all the other gifts, according the Holy Spirit gave.
To say today that a christian need this 2nd baptising and speaking in tongues. says with other words: before 1900 the christians lived without that. Why the Holy Spirit should avoid this gifts, if they would be so important for the church?
The missionaries which sent out during the churchhistory for to spread the gospel, lacked then the ability, because they had not the empowerment through the Holy Spirit according the pentecostal and also charismatic doctrine.
And finally the baptising with Holy Spirit which is given since 1900 only to them who following this doctrine. That means all others are false and have not the empowerment for to build up the church.
You may believe this, but i can not believe it. I see christians which are following Jesus, serving in the church without having the sign gifts. In the pentecostal/charismatic doctrine they are not able to build a christian life in the right way.
And again: scripture said not all having the gift to speak in tongues. Either then many christians cant getting the 2nd baptising with the Holy Spirit ore the scripture is wrong.
