baptism

[mailmandan]

Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for, arise, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Only Christ blood washes away sin, and baptism puts us in Christ's death where He shed His blood (Romans 6:3), BINGO! We have a winner!

We have no winner. What we have is church of Christ (Campbellism) nonsense. The language found in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Jesus when He took the bread and said, "This is My body.." (Matthew 26:26). The bread is only the emblem of His body, just as water baptism is only the emblem of the washing away of sins by the sacrificial death of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed he washes away his sins in the same sense that Paul did. Not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

As in Colossians 1:14, "through His blood" is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is also used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16).

Yes, He uses our "immersion" into Christ's death to kill the old man...entirely, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Before mentioning baptism in Romans chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not water baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him).

If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about “through faith” - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.

 

[mailmandan]

They are both reality.
Yes, I do teach, and live, sinless perfection.
It is the result of a true repentance from sin, and of the death of the old man.

They are not both the reality and those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

In Acts 2:38, Peter said that you would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost AFTER repentance and baptism.
Only once was a different sequence shown in scripture, and that was Cornelius's household and the first of the Gentiles to be converted...a special case.

Acts 10 was not merely a special case, as explained by those who teach the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. ​​​​​​​In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19.

The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[PJW]

We have no winner. What we have is church of Christ (Campbellism) nonsense. The language found in Acts 22:16 is similar to the statement of Jesus when He took the bread and said, "This is My body.." (Matthew 26:26). The bread is only the emblem of His body, just as water baptism is only the emblem of the washing away of sins by the sacrificial death of Christ. Every time a believer is immersed he washes away his sins in the same sense that Paul did. Not literally, but ceremonially, pointing to the blood of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

As in Colossians 1:14, "through His blood" is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is also used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16).

Before mentioning baptism in Romans chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not water baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him).

If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that justification is by FAITH, not baptism. *Hermeneutics. Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about “through faith” - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.

Despite your POV, I believe..."[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Washing in the waters of baptism are equivalent to washing in Jesus' blood.

Your thesis must be backed-up by manifesting the result written of by Paul in Rom 6:7.
Without it, it is JUST your POV.[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

They are not both the reality and those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

As for 1 John 1:8...
John is writing to a church, about two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing. (Also used by Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh.)
A applies to those who walk in the light and B applies to those who walk in the darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to those who walk in the darkness.
I walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God in the name of Christ Jesus.

Acts 10 was not merely a special case, as explained by those who teach the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. ​​​​​​​In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19.

The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

The rest of your postulating has only allowed you to continue walking in darkness, it seems.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Despite your POV, I believe..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

Washing in the waters of baptism are equivalent to washing in Jesus' blood.

Your thesis must be backed-up by manifesting the result written of by Paul in Rom 6:7.
Without it, it is JUST your POV.

Heresy, there you have it folks. He equates being dunked in water by some man as equal to being immersed into Christ By God himself. I.e., he attributes the worth of God to the work of men.

Run far away from this person. Far far away.

 

[mailmandan]

Despite your POV, I believe..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

Washing in the waters of baptism are equivalent to washing in Jesus' blood.

Again, you are mistaken. Water symbolizes Jesus' baptism and blood symbolizes His death. These are mentioned because the ministry of Jesus began at His baptism and ended at His death. Water and blood constitute external, objective witness to who Jesus Christ is. John writes to show that God has given testimony to the deity of Jesus through both His baptism and His death.

Your thesis must be backed-up by manifesting the result written of by Paul in Rom 6:7.

Without it, it is JUST your POV.

Believers, who have been united together in the likeness of His death and resurrection, are no longer slaves of sin (no longer under it's dominion) and we are now slaves of righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

As for 1 John 1:8...
John is writing to a church, about two kinds of men.
Those who walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness.
Those who walk in the light have had ALL their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ. They CAN say they have no sin.
Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have no sin, because they do continue to commit sin.
John uses an A-B, A-B, A-B style of writing. (Also used by Paul in Romans 8...Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh, Spirit-flesh.)
A applies to those who walk in the light and B applies to those who walk in the darkness.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those who walk in the light.
Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to those who walk in the darkness.
I walk in the light, thanks to the grace of God in the name of Christ Jesus.

You are deceived.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness/hates his brother" is connected to children of the devil.

The rest of your postulating has only allowed you to continue walking in darkness, it seems.

Those who suffer from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10) are walking in darkness.

 

[He_reigns]

How does a baptism thread devolve into another "not by works" thread?

No offense, but it seems the leaders of the "not by works" thread think it is their God called mission to divert any thread that talks about salvation in any way they alone do not believe in and then come over and divert it. If you want to make salvation discussions, go to the "not by works" thread. This was made for those kinds of discussions, go comment there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How does a baptism thread devolve into another "not by works" thread?

No offense, but it seems the leaders of the "not by works" thread think it is their God called mission to divert any thread that talks about salvation in any way they alone do not believe in and then come over and divert it. If you want to make salvation discussions, go to the "not by works" thread. This was made for those kinds of discussions, go comment there.

if baptism is taught as a means of salvation, it is a works issue. Plain and simple.

 

[He_reigns]

if baptism is taught as a means of salvation, it is a works issue. Plain and simple.

Fair enough and I will respect your answer.

Whose freedom did you die for? As a vet,myself. I question your choice in your avatar pic. It is highly offensive to me as a Vet and Christian. You have not paid the ultimate price because you are typing and breathing. You also elevate yourself above others when you dare think a sacrifice a military member makes in the line of duty is as Great as the one Jesus Christ made himself.

Jesus gave us salvation and freedom. Good day sir.

 

[notuptome]

Despite your POV, I believe..."And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

Washing in the waters of baptism are equivalent to washing in Jesus' blood.

Your thesis must be backed-up by manifesting the result written of by Paul in Rom 6:7.
Without it, it is JUST your POV.

Not if you properly understand it in light of Titus 3:5

Titus 3:55 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The washing that saves is Holy Spirit not water.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fair enough and I will respect your answer.

Whose freedom did you die for? As a vet,myself. I question your choice in your avatar pic. It is highly offensive to me as a Vet and Christian. You have not paid the ultimate price because you are typing and breathing. You also elevate yourself above others when you dare think a sacrifice a military member makes in the line of duty is as Great as the one Jesus Christ made himself.

Jesus gave us salvation and freedom. Good day sir.

My avatar is not about me, Its about those who have died for my freedom and yours

So in trying to attack me, you just made a fool of yourself.

Good day sir

 

[Amberlight]

My avatar is not about me, Its about those who have died for my freedom and yours

So in trying to attack me, you just made a fool of yourself.

Good day sir

Maybe your just afraid of water

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe your just afraid of water

I retired from the us coast guard

 

[Amberlight]

I retired from the us coast guard

 

[PJW]

Heresy, there you have it folks. He equates being dunked in water by some man as equal to being immersed into Christ By God himself. I.e., he attributes the worth of God to the work of men.

Run far away from this person. Far far away.

Then you don't believe 1 John 5:8...that the water, blood, and Spirit are all one.

Has your belief allowed you to live free from sin, as Paul writes in Romans 6:7?
Mine has, thanks be to God.

 

[PJW]

Again, you are mistaken. Water symbolizes Jesus' baptism and blood symbolizes His death. These are mentioned because the ministry of Jesus began at His baptism and ended at His death. Water and blood constitute external, objective witness to who Jesus Christ is. John writes to show that God has given testimony to the deity of Jesus through both His baptism and His death.

Believers, who have been united together in the likeness of His death and resurrection, are no longer slaves of sin (no longer under it's dominion) and we are now slaves of righteousness.

I don't believe anyone who denies water baptism is where we are crucified, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life can be a "slave to righteousness".
Are you sin free, or not?

 

[PJW]

You are deceived.
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

You are correct.
So which ones are sinners?

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Correct again, sinners don't have faith.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness/hates his brother" is connected to children of the devil.

All fine scriptures for us to use in differentiating the righteous from the wicked.

Those who suffer from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10) are walking in darkness.

It is written..."[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19)[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Like Paul in Gal 2;20, my righteousness is His righteousness[/FONT]

 

[PJW]

if baptism is taught as a means of salvation, it is a works issue. Plain and simple.

With that mindset, faith, repentance, confession, submission to God, believing, and love are also "works".
Yet, without all of them, there will be no salvation.
Please don't confuse the "works of the Law" with simple obedience.

 

[PJW]

Not if you properly understand it in light of Titus 3:5

Titus 3:55 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The washing that saves is Holy Spirit not water.

Even if that were true, how is the old man killed, buried, and raised with Christ?
By "immersion" into Christ and His death.
All spelled out in Romans 6:3-6, and the results?..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Has your belief ended your life in sin?