Baptizing
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"That which is perfect" is the Greek word teleios.
τέλειος téleios, tel'-i-os
from G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness:—of full age, man, perfect.
adjective
...it's referring to the "completeness." The future age after Christ has returned.
τέλειος téleios, tel'-i-os
from G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness:—of full age, man, perfect.
adjective
...it's referring to the "completeness." The future age after Christ has returned.
The perfect man, in their future. The perfecting of the body of Christ at Corinth since they had many issues and problems such as division, wherein they would no longer require the various piecemeal gifts of the Spirit. Read the Cor letters to understand their issues. The letter was to THEM not us and not the vast body of Christ as it may exist today, but to them and their congregation. The gifts have ceased and are no longer needed since we today gave the complete word of God to guide us. The gifts were necessary then since the church was growing and had no complete word of God but rather the various gifts that equated to individual parts of the body, their local body, their congregation and similarly other fledgling congregations of that day.
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Those problems do not exist today?
Piecemeal?
1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
While it was written to "the church of God at Corinth," it is also written "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord." And in Col 4:16 Paul encourages that his letters be shared among the other churches.
That's a fairly common cessationist belief that I do not hold. I do not believe that "that which is perfect" refers to the completed Bible.
I believe the gifts are still necessary for the Christian church today.
Piecemeal?
1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
While it was written to "the church of God at Corinth," it is also written "to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord." And in Col 4:16 Paul encourages that his letters be shared among the other churches.
That's a fairly common cessationist belief that I do not hold. I do not believe that "that which is perfect" refers to the completed Bible.
I believe the gifts are still necessary for the Christian church today.
It's obvious that the paragraph is describing the same people; "the church of God which is at Corinth", "them that are sanctified", and "called to be saints" are describing tge same group of people who are the sanctified saints at Corinth.
1 Cor 1:2(kjv)
"2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
Why are the miraculous gifts as described in 1 Cor 12:8-10 necessary today and who is doing them all? Who is performing miracles? who is raising the dead? Whi truly has a word of wisdom or knowledge that's beyond the scriptures? Who is healing people, like straightening crooked legs in front of your eyes? Who is prophesying with more than that information contained in the bible which is the COMPLETE word of God? And tongues? That's a joke! Tongues were earthly tongues as a sign to convince the nonbelievers, such as on the day of Pentecost when everyone heard the words in their own native tongues.
Wake up! Or just continue to believe a bunch of unvalidated, impertinent nonsense espoused by people who misinterpret and misapply scripture.
1 Cor 1:2(kjv)
"2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"
Why are the miraculous gifts as described in 1 Cor 12:8-10 necessary today and who is doing them all? Who is performing miracles? who is raising the dead? Whi truly has a word of wisdom or knowledge that's beyond the scriptures? Who is healing people, like straightening crooked legs in front of your eyes? Who is prophesying with more than that information contained in the bible which is the COMPLETE word of God? And tongues? That's a joke! Tongues were earthly tongues as a sign to convince the nonbelievers, such as on the day of Pentecost when everyone heard the words in their own native tongues.
Wake up! Or just continue to believe a bunch of unvalidated, impertinent nonsense espoused by people who misinterpret and misapply scripture.
Actually there are about 20 gifts of the Holy Spirit recorded in Scripture. But the signs, wonders, and miracles were reserved for the apostles and their companions. The history of the Church confirms this.
Since you believe that the sign gifts are prevalent, kindly tell us which miracle you performed recently, and whether it can be corroborated. Or who in your church performed a miracle this week. It would be interesting to see if you can actually back up what you claim.
As to "that which is complete" why not believe that the Bible is indeed complete? It needs no more additions.
Since you believe that the sign gifts are prevalent, kindly tell us which miracle you performed recently, and whether it can be corroborated. Or who in your church performed a miracle this week. It would be interesting to see if you can actually back up what you claim.
As to "that which is complete" why not believe that the Bible is indeed complete? It needs no more additions.
Why do cessationists always go directly to miracles? I have not performed any miracles that I am aware of, nor have I healed anyone, but I do know people who have been miraculously, instantaneously, healed. I (and people in my church) do speak in tongues and interpret, and prophesy, and I have heard from God via word of knowledge and word of wisdom. Discerning of spirits comes in handy, too.
Cessationists also like to suggest, "well, if you can perform miracles or heal people, why don't you go clear out the hospitals in your area"? Those things take revelation from God.
I believe the Bible is complete. It's the Word of God that we have. What I do not believe is that Paul was talking about the Bible in 1 Cor 13:10.
Cessationists also like to suggest, "well, if you can perform miracles or heal people, why don't you go clear out the hospitals in your area"? Those things take revelation from God.
I believe the Bible is complete. It's the Word of God that we have. What I do not believe is that Paul was talking about the Bible in 1 Cor 13:10.
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You are the one who has claimed that all the spiritual gifts have continued. In the apostolic churches, all the gifts were present including miracles (1 Cor 12-14). So according to your reasoning there should be at least one miracle worker in your church. And if you cannot give us an actual example of a recent miracle in your church, then what you are claiming is false. Indeed every Christian church would have at least one miracle worker (if what you say is true). There would be daily miracles worldwide in all the churches. But is that really so?
That's your reasoning, not mine.
Erect a strawman, then knock it down.
..and continue to pummel it.
..stomp it into the dust.
There are miracles in the church today. Not as many as in the first century, but they happen. You won't hear of them on the evening news, however.
And again, your theory is that since you do not see miracles, all the other gifts have ceased too.
I don't subscribe to that theory.
Erect a strawman, then knock it down.
..and continue to pummel it.
..stomp it into the dust.
There are miracles in the church today. Not as many as in the first century, but they happen. You won't hear of them on the evening news, however.
And again, your theory is that since you do not see miracles, all the other gifts have ceased too.
I don't subscribe to that theory.
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That's not what the scriptures say. What is deliverance? If you mean saved from our sins, that's salvation, and the scriptures are quite clear when you become saved. Acts 2:38. That same scripture also tells you that's when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
A ts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
A ts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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