Be Holy, have reverent fear, live for righteousness, done with sin

[FreeNChrist]

Actually, once again you are wrong. The "flesh" is the sin nature working in our old man (Adam) by way of the spirit of this world=the Devil.

Also you do not understand what the word flesh means there, it's not the fleshy body itself but the sin nature working in the old man of flesh=spirit of sin working in our members=body of sin.

That which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the flesh [SUP]G4561[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] flesh; [SUP]G4561[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] that which is born [SUP]G1080[/SUP] of [SUP]G1537[/SUP] the Spirit [SUP]G4151[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] spirit. [SUP]G4151[/SUP]

G4561.......Bible usage.....the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"

1. 1. 1. without any suggestion of depravity
      2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
      3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
      
      
2. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
3. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

So your dual nature after spiritual rebirth in Christ theology is false.

If the flesh is the sin nature working in the old man, and we know that the flesh remains after spiritual rebirth in Christ, then it is you who are advocating for dual natures. Like I said, until you get this right, you will continue to form inaccurate conclusions and be at odds with those who have been born again of the Spirit of God.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If the flesh is the sin nature working in the old man, and we know that the flesh remains after spiritual rebirth in Christ, then it is you who are advocating for dual natures. Like I said, until you get this right, you will continue to form inaccurate conclusions and be at odds with those who have been born again of the Spirit of God.

You say you know the fleshy sin nature remains because that is the condition you are under. You are speaking from your own condition, but not according to the words of God.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You say you know the fleshy sin nature remains because that is the condition you are under. You are speaking from your own condition, but not according to the words of God.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Here's what I actually I say; Christians have one nature as partakers of the divine nature. Not two natures as you say. That Christians are not in the flesh does not mean that the flesh has been eradicated and no longer influences us. If that were true then there would be no need for Gods exhortation for Christians to walk in the Spirit so as to not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

 

[Chester]

It is your assumption that the "flesh" and the "old man" are synonymous that is throwing you off. They're not. And that is leading you to incorrect conclusions. The old man is dead, but the flesh remains.

Amen! and amen a thousand times!

 

[Chester]

When I saw this thread it thought- Oh now here we go again! We all have been warned to tone the rhetoric down or bit or the axe will fall!

But as I quickly looked over this thread, I found the attitudes and posts much better - sure there is disagreement and debate, but for one or two exceptions I saw there was no namecalling (though I could have missed some??)

What I saw was several times hinting or directly telling someone else that they are not Christian or born again, etc. Not a good idea!!!!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here's what I actually I say; Christians have one nature as partakers of the divine nature. Not two natures as you say. That Christians are not in the flesh does not mean that the flesh has been eradicated and no longer influences us. If that were true then there would be no need for Gods exhortation for Christians to walk in the Spirit so as to not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

I did not say we have 2 natures after being born again of the Spirit, that is what I am speaking against. But again, as shown in red in your post above that is exactly what you are supporting. If the deeds of the body/flesh are not dead and gone then you are still in the flesh, ongoing sin in a persons life will confirm this condition.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I did not say we have 2 natures after being born again of the Spirit, that is what I am speaking against. But again, as shown in red in your post above that is exactly what you are supporting. If the deeds of the body/flesh are not dead and gone then you are still in the flesh, ongoing sin in a persons life will confirm this condition.

We know the flesh remains, so if you insist that the flesh is a sin nature, you are indeed insisting that Christians have dual natures.

 

[Grace777x70]

Again, your own words expose your false doctrine error of Dualism and a doctrine of a "disassociated identity". That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit; the scriptures do not say we are now flesh/Spirit, but Spirit. You reprobates claim your spirit is "perfect" but you are still trapped in a body that causes you to sin, so you keep on sinning and cling to a false doctrine which is conformed to your fallen condition.

The flesh that causes you to sin is the old man sin nature that is still alive and well working in you by the spirit of this world and is still serving sin because you have not been born again and made a new man in Christ.

So, you don't live now in a flesh body?

So, do you still sin from time to time and give in to the flesh? Let's look at your "personal application" of what you are saying.

Things like lying, deceit, causing strife and division, slandering others in the body of Christ are just as much sinning as living the homosexual lifestyle is.

So, do you still sin from time to time and do a work of the flesh?

 

[Grace777x70]

Read Romans 6 and 8 which speaks of being made free from the Romans 7 sinful condition.

I believe your problem is - you do not understand what "sin" that Paul is talking about in Romans actually is.

This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[lastofall]

"That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life." (Luke 1:74-75)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We know the flesh remains, so if you insist that the flesh is a sin nature, you are indeed insisting that Christians have dual natures.

You say you know the fleshy sin nature remains because that is the condition you are still under. You are speaking from your own condition, but not according to the words of God. When you are born again you are no longer in the fleshy sin nature, but in the divine nature of Christ. SO ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT SUGGESTING BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS HAVE A DUAL NATURE! Scripture proves it----->>>>>>

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So, you don't live now in a flesh body?

The sin nature is the spirit that is at work in the world, and those who are of the world. IT IS NOT THE PHYSICAL BODY WHICH GOD MADE! God did not make your PHYSICAL body sinful, the sin nature came in the heart/mind of man from the spirit of the god of this world= the works of the Devil.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The sin nature is the spirit that is at work in the world, and those who are of the world. IT IS NOT THE PHYSICAL BODY WHICH GOD MADE! God did not make your PHYSICAL body sinful, the sin nature came in the heart/mind of man from the spirit of the god of this world= the works of the Devil.

I agree. Neither is the sin nature the "flesh".

 

[FreeNChrist]

You say you know the fleshy sin nature remains because that is the condition you are still under. You are speaking from your own condition, but not according to the words of God. When you are born again you are no longer in the fleshy sin nature, but in the divine nature of Christ. SO ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT SUGGESTING BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS HAVE A DUAL NATURE! Scripture proves it----->>>>>>

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Here's what I actually I say; Christians have one nature as partakers of the divine nature. Not two natures as you say. That Christians are not in the flesh does not mean that the flesh has been eradicated and no longer influences us. If that were true then there would be no need for Gods exhortation for Christians to walk in the Spirit so as to not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Once again, if you say that the flesh is the sin nature then you are saying that Christians have dual natures.

 

[PeterJens]

Here's what I actually I say; Christians have one nature as partakers of the divine nature. Not two natures as you say. That Christians are not in the flesh does not mean that the flesh has been eradicated and no longer influences us. If that were true then there would be no need for Gods exhortation for Christians to walk in the Spirit so as to not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Once again, if you say that the flesh is the sin nature then you are saying that Christians have dual natures.

Interesting. You are taking a position on faith and people that I hold to.

And people dropping the dualist view is a change of strategy, going non gnostic.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I agree. Neither is the sin nature the "flesh".

Already proved you wrong there by scripture, post #60

 

[FreeNChrist]

Interesting. You are taking a position on faith and people that I hold to.

And people dropping the dualist view is a change of strategy, going non gnostic.

I don't know what people you are referencing, but I had no dual nature nor gnostic view to drop.....so no need to go non gnostic.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Not two natures as you say.

That's not what I said, that's what you said I said, which is not true= A LIE.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Already proved you wrong there by scripture, post #60

LOL. Like I said, until you get this right the rest will of course continue to escape you.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That's not what I said, that's what you said I said, which is not true= A LIE.

Already explained. Live and learn or live and don't learn, the choice is yours.