Bearing fruit

[gb9]

Those who are truly in the body of Christ and truly of God's Spirit of Truth do not handle the words of God deceitfully and twist words and meanings in scripture in order to promote false doctrine, like yourself. You have been warned, and you have a nice day.

and I have warned you about just plucking out verses to make points without context. the Bible is plenty big enough and has enough subject matters that it can be MADE to " say " anything. use context, the Bible is not sinners in the hands of an angry God, as hard as you try to make it be.
get it right!! you have been warned, and you have a nice day.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

John 8:44

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

and I have warned you about just plucking out verses to make points without context. the Bible is plenty big enough and has enough subject matters that it can be MADE to " say " anything. use context, the Bible is not sinners in the hands of an angry God, as hard as you try to make it be.
get it right!! you have been warned, and you have a nice day.

Oh my, at least I use the Bible with bunches of scripture, but you just run off at the mouth and attack the poster, as do many others in this forum. But have a nice day anyway.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus said in John 15:1-10 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”

Ok, some claim all Christians are sinners, and that they keep on sinning even though they have been saved. And even despite that disobedience and reoccurring sin they proclaim you still abide in Christ. This my friends is false, because you cannot remain in sin and in Christ at the same time.

Notice Jesus said in order to bear fruit one must abide in Him, that also means believing in and abiding in His words. And here is what it means to abide in Him…
1 John 3:9 “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

The seed mentioned there is Christ, but again to be in Christ is to 1 John 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
So the simple truth is in order to bear fruit we must abide in Christ, and to abide in Christ one must stop sinning.

Now if one is sinning are they truly in Christ? Not according to the Lords words above. Also we are given what happens if one in Him does not bear fruit in Jesus, as said in John 15:2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:” So anyone in him that does not bear fruit he takes away. And not only that we are told in verse 6 [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Also we cannot bear fruit on our own except we abide in Him John 15:4 “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.” And again, to abide in Christ means you cannot abide in sin.

And if you remain in sin, then you truly don’t abide in Christ do you? For it is written "in him is no sin." And as Jesus said, those who do not abide in Him are cast forth as a branch, and then gathered and cast into the fire and burned.

Christ is not a vine of sin (minister of sin) Galatians 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Anyone who says you can abide in sin and also remain in Christ at the same time is a liar and a deceiver.

 

[gb9]

I could go post verses about how we do not save ourselves, that we are saved by belief, that truly saved people will produce fruit, etc..... you would come back about lost salvation, judgement, punishment, etc..... there are 31,102 verses in the Bible. we could go back and forth, throwing verses at each other, for days.. but that is wrong.

wrong because the Bible does not contradict if taken in context. just posting warning verses alone is making the Bible say what it does not really says. it is fine to post verses, as long as proper explantion balanced with context is provided.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I could go post verses about how we do not save ourselves, that we are saved by belief, that truly saved people will produce fruit, etc..... you would come back about lost salvation, judgement, punishment, etc..... there are 31,102 verses in the Bible. we could go back and forth, throwing verses at each other, for days.. but that is wrong.

wrong because the Bible does not contradict if taken in context. just posting warning verses alone is making the Bible say what it does not really says. it is fine to post verses, as long as proper explantion balanced with context is provided.

I have found in past experiences those who cannot refute the message I confirm with great multitudes of scripture just run off at the mouth because they are unable to support their false beliefs with scriptural proof. They attack the poster personally because they either do not believe what is written in the scriptures, or they do not truly understand what is written, or they just don't spend enough time reading the scriptures for themselves, or seek any guidance from the Holy Spirit by faith.

These types usually just blindly follow carnally minded preachers like Joseph Prince who tell them what they want to hear, but not according to the Truth that is confirmed in God's Word. These types also go to other web sites and copy paste perverted and twisted false doctrine from other sources and sites like escape from reality because they themselves are to lazy and unbelieving in the power of God to seek out understanding from the Lord alone by faith.

 

[BenFTW]

How is Joseph Prince telling people what they want to hear, as in itching ears? He doesn't preach a license to sin, so how can his message possibly be itching ears? I suppose one might accuse you of itching ears as well, for those that are prideful, who think they and not Christ, maintain their salvation. Thinking that one must stop sinning all together or they are condemned to Hell misses what Jesus accomplished at the cross and through His resurrection.

 

[Grace777x70]

People do attempt to post scriptures that gives a different view what is being said in some threads but they are not accepted nor respected and if someone doesn't agree with some one's particular view of a scripture - people are labelled as - evil, accursed, demonic, just wanting to sin, false teachers, sinful, hated by God, evil workers, carnal, condemned, lawless...etc.

It's no wonder some don't bother posting any scriptures in some threads that speak of a different view then what they do. Who wants that dreaded spirit on them?

Why don't we lift up Christ and what He has done instead of trying to tear other's faith apart and talk about the beauty of our Lord? Let's talk of His grace and life in us to work out what is already in us in Christ so that we can grow up in Him and have His life that is in the true believer bear good fruit to the glory of the Father!

Let's lift up Jesus!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

How is Joseph Prince telling people what they want to hear, as in itching ears? He doesn't preach a license to sin, so how can his message possibly be itching ears?

You are a poster child of Joseph Princes false doctrine, who says things like this...

All in all, why do we even want to sin less at all? VVhat gain is there in sinning less? The question, I guess, is what significance is there in us sinning less or even not at all?

I know that kind of mentality did not come from the Holy Spirit, enough said.

 

[BenFTW]

You are a poster child of Joseph Princes false doctrine, who says things like this...

I know that kind of mentality did not come from the Holy Spirit, enough said.

You have misunderstood the questions I asked and its intended point to ponder. You also have taken it out of context which I asked of you to not do. The context of those questions is making a point of the reason behind sinning less, or not at all. VVhy does God want us to stop sinning? He sent Jesus to die for us so we could be reconciled to Him but also too that we may walk in righteousness. One reason is love.

This question is a valid one, not one that is trying to say, "VVhy stop sinning at all?" That is your false interpretation of it, and your way of trying to defame people you disagree with. Oh.. but you're sinless right? You wouldn't bear false witness, and make it seem like someone is saying something they aren't by editing what they said in a quote, now would you? You did though.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You have misunderstood the questions I asked and its intended point to ponder. You also have taken it out of context which I asked of you to not do. The context of those questions is making a point of the reason behind sinning less, or not at all. VVhy does God want us to stop sinning? He sent Jesus to die for us so we could be reconciled to Him but also too that we may walk in righteousness. One reason is love.

This question is a valid one, not one that is trying to say, "VVhy stop sinning at all?" That is your false interpretation of it, and your way of trying to defame people you disagree with. Oh.. but you're sinless right? You wouldn't bear false witness, and make it seem like someone is saying something they aren't by editing what they said in a quote, now would you? You did though.

I am not bearing false witness, those were your words not mine. Here is your entire quote...

Originally Posted by BenFTW Forget not sinning for a life time. How about not sinning for a day? Does anyone think that is possible? You see, God's word says that all things are possible with God and so it seems that might just be possible. I am not saying that it has happened or will happen but that it is possible.

VVhat does it mean that there is a possibility to go a day without sin? It doesn't mean anything in terms of our salvation. If we go one day without sin it doesn't balance the days we have sinned. That would be like the concept of reincarnation, eventually reaching a balance of right and wrong. So while it holds no value in terms of our justification, what value would it hold?

All in all, why do we even want to sin less at all? VVhat gain is there in sinning less? Just maybe we've learned from God that love leads to a better life. A better experience. Sin is void of love, so to go a day without sin would mean you chose that day to love. To love others, God, and self. The question, I guess, is what significance is there in us sinning less or even not at all? VVe've been set free from sin, we are dead to it. Our victory over sin has what significance, if even sin doesn't condemn us before God on account of Jesus? Is it simply, to love?

And here is what I quoted from you above in red....

All in all, why do we even want to sin less at all? VVhat gain is there in sinning less? The question, I guess, is what significance is there in us sinning less or even not at all?

Your words not mine. And by the way, Jesus also came to set you free from sin and sinning, but clearly by your above statements you do not believe there is a significance in sinning less or even at all. That teaching and mentality is not of God's Spirit.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

By the way, the other poster child of Mr. Prince confirmed his false doctrine with this follow up comment after Bens...

Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning.

Again, no one with the Holy Spirit would say those things.

 

[Th0mas]

2 Timothy 2:

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Matthew 10:33

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Titus 1:16

They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Matthew 16:

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Matthew 26:

33 Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will."
34 "Truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times."
35 But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.

Matthew 26:

74 Then he began to call down curses, and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!" Immediately a rooster crowed.
75 Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.

Matthew 27:

3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.

Matthew 16:

18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

If there is a need to say, I'm not a Roman Catholic and I didn't say that arrogantly and selfishly.

Matthew 27:

4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.

Acts 1:18

(With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

Matthew 27:

7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners.
8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day.

Ephesians 2:

12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

 

[Utah]

If you abide in Christ and bring forth good fruit you have nothing to fear, His peace will be in you. Those who fear are not yet made perfect in His love.

Key word is, yet.

 

[Grace777x70]

By the way, the other poster child of Mr. Prince confirmed his false doctrine with this follow up comment after Bens...

Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning.

Again, no one with the Holy Spirit would say those things.

If you knew what "sin" ( the noun ) was - you could begin to understand the difference between "sin" that is in the flesh which Paul in Romans 7 called the "law of sin" and the act of committing "sinning". - which is yielding to what the sin in the flesh wants to do.

This is the reason we were circumcised with the circumcision of Christ where the new man in Christ is cut away from the body of flesh that has the law of sin in it. See Romans 7:17-22 and Col.2:11.

We will have in our flesh this law of sin ( the noun ) until we go to be with the Lord. If we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( which has the law of sin in it ) to do "its" desires. - called "sinning"

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

If you would sometimes listen to others that had a different opinion and stop calling them false teachers because they have a different view then you do and stop maligning people - you might learn something that will bless you.

So, you see there is a difference between "sin" and "sinning". We are free from the law of sin in our flesh but we can still give in to it's desires and thus that is called sinning.

You will never be sinless no matter what you think but you are fee from sin in your flesh. "sinning" is the act of yielding to the "sin" ( the noun ) in your flesh.

Malice slander, strife and such "things like this" ( Gal 5:21 ) are in the same categories of the works of the flesh just like adultery and murder and stealing.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Galatians 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Context is so important. Paul is talking about being under the law and they were "seeking to be justified". These are those that think they can from "their deeds" of righteousness be good enough for Christ.

Galatians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

[SUP]18 [/SUP] "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. ( this is putting ourselves back under the law )

[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. ( this is the true Christian life )

To the saints at Philippi, to the saints at Corinth, Ephesus, Romans, Galatia...etc.

 

[laura_charlotte]

Oh, brother.. ANOTHER thread about losing salvation? *sigh*

Too bad you can't put forums on ignore like you can with people..lol

I've observed a lot of your complaints about the bible study forum collectively. This type of comment from you in my own threads and where you kept revisiting to make fun of the subject matter. Instead of going around correcting people on how they should be capitalise God and Jesus, try to inspire them to the Lord with the fruits of the spirit. The aforementioned type of behaviour from is negative and unnecessary. If you aren't interested in a topic, either find a way to constructively contribute in a thread or don't be a part of it all. That would be far more beneficial for everyone who wishes to sincerely engage in a worthwhile and productive discussion.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Context is so important. Paul is talking about being under the law and they were "seeking to be justified". These are those that think they can from "their deeds" of righteousness be good enough for Christ.

Galatians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

[SUP]18 [/SUP] "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. ( this is putting ourselves back under the law )

[SUP]19 [/SUP] "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. ( this is the true Christian life )

To the saints at Philippi, to the saints at Corinth, Ephesus, Romans, Galatia...etc.

In verse 17 says while seeking to be justified in Christ not the law (as you say in the first sentence)

 

[blue_ladybug]

I've observed a lot of your complaints about the bible study forum collectively. This type of comment from you in my own threads and where you kept revisiting to make fun of the subject matter. Instead of going around correcting people on how they should be capitalise God and Jesus, try to inspire them to the Lord with the fruits of the spirit. The aforementioned type of behaviour from is negative and unnecessary. If you aren't interested in a topic, either find a way to constructively contribute in a thread or don't be a part of it all. That would be far more beneficial for everyone who wishes to sincerely engage in a worthwhile and productive discussion.

And I have observed alot of YOUR comments which are snarky, snide and just plain rude. THIS thread is NOT YOUR thread. InSpirit started this thread, and I wasn't making fun of the subject matter. I was simply making a relevant observation based on the plethora of losing salvation threads that are in existence in this forum. And also, the thread that you got my reply about putting forums on ignore from, is not YOUR thread either. So take your snide self elsewhere and stop hassling myself and others. It's up to InSpirit whether to kick me off this thread or not, seeing as how it IS HIS thread, and I've only made that ONE post on it. Stop playing the forum police officer, it really doesn't become you. Neither does snarkiness, for that matter. And I RARELY ever go on ANY of YOUR threads.. Now get this through your head, I will post whatever and wherever I want to unless I am asked by the OP of any given thread, to leave.. YOU are not my boss. Got it?