Because of the Angels

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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#82
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
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#82
JesusistheChrist said:
The actual head coverings that Paul was speaking about were these:

1. A wife's spiritual head covering - her husband
2. A wife's natural head covering - her hair

Paul's point was that if it isn't shameful for a wife to disregard her spiritual head covering or to usurp authority over her husband, then let her also shave her head or remove her natural head covering. In regard to the God-given authority (which is not synonymous with abuse or domination, btw) of a husband in relation to his own wife, Paul later said in this same epistle:

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order." (I Corinthians 14:34-40)

Contextually, "your women" were "your wives" who were instructed to "ask their husbands at home" and this is part of the "all things" that Paul was instructing the Corinthians to "do decently and in order". Going back to "the angels" for a moment, it seems as if they are watching over things to see whether or not they truly are "done decently and in order" and I believe that this is what Paul was talking about in the text from chapter 11. IOW, a wife ought to have her husband as her spiritual covering because that is the "order" that God created for marriage where the husband is representative of Christ and the wife is representative of His church even as Paul explained in Ephesians chapter 5.
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And if things aren't done 'decently and in order', what will the angels do?
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#83
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,712
113
#83
BarlyGurl said:
I honestly would like to believe you are seeking understanding for this passage.... but I am keeping my eye on you... cuz I think you already have determined what the passage means.

Plainly, I think it means EXACTLY what it says.... there is a host of heaven watching us and angels to watch over us... and that is exactly what it is referring to.

How is that? no mention of .... err... you know... what you said?
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This is the teaching I also have heard. As unlikely as it sounds, the poor angels supposedly have trouble distinguishing the nice ladies from the rebellious ones and need an outward signifier to help them perform their duty. As BG suggests, there are other reasons given besides angel helps.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
#84
#84
crossnote said:
And if things aren't done 'decently and in order', what will the angels do?
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My semi-educated guess is that they'd report the same back to the Lord of hosts, Jesus Christ, the head of the church. It seems to me, based upon several different Biblical texts, that "the eyes of the Lord" often refers to angels who report back to the Lord that which they have seen or witnessed here upon the earth. I'm posting from my iPhone now, but I can post some verses along these lines at a later time for your consideration if you want me to.
 
Jenizona

Jenizona

Senior Member
#85
Aug 8, 2015
629
28
0
#85
JesusistheChrist said:
My semi-educated guess is that they'd report the same back to the Lord of hosts, Jesus Christ, the head of the church. It seems to me, based upon several different Biblical texts, that "the eyes of the Lord" often refers to angels who report back to the Lord that which they have seen or witnessed here upon the earth. I'm posting from my iPhone now, but I can post some verses along these lines at a later time for your consideration if you want me to.
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Please do, if you get the chance! And thank you! :)
 
P

PartyOf3

Guest
#88
#88
didymos said:
It's called DOGA, you're supposed to practise it with your dog,
and they're usually way better at it than we are.

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dogs are great!!!! Lol
 
I

Is

Guest
#89
#89
Ex. 23:20 "I send an Angel before thee" (Israel at Sinai).

Dan. 9:21 "I am now come forth to give thee (Daniel) skill and understanding" said Gabriel, implying He had been sent forth from Heaven to earth by God to explain the vision to Daniel.

Luke 4:11 records how Jesus was reminded that the Angels would "bear (Him) up". Presumably this was to be taken literally- the Angels physically with Him would have literally held Him under the arms if He jumped from the temple. So we see the literal physical presence of the Angels in our lives.

If they believed Angels were physically with them in their lives means that we are always in the presence of God, as they represent Him,and the angels are also portrayed in the canonical books of the Old Testament as having a mediatory role in the communication of prophecy from God to man, couldn't it be that they believed that God through His Holy angels was present with them when they assembled together and any serious offense against propriety during these sacred moments would stir up the disapproval of these angelic helpers of the saints, perhaps causing them to depart; and any good deed they witnessed would bring aid from them?
 
E

Eva1218

Guest
#90
#90
Paul is giving the Godly Principle of Order. The order is GOD, man, woman. Having ones head covered meaning having one of greater authority over them. GOD made man and from man woman was made. Therefore the man's head is uncovered because GOD is his Head. The woman's head is covered because her head is man. by this the woman has power. This power is given which is protection of angelic forces (good) against angelic beings (evil).

When we come up under the Order of GOD we are under HIS DIVINE Protection.

Blessings!!!!!!!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#91
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
3,684
113
#91
Is said:
Ex. 23:20 "I send an Angel before thee" (Israel at Sinai).

Dan. 9:21 "I am now come forth to give thee (Daniel) skill and understanding" said Gabriel, implying He had been sent forth from Heaven to earth by God to explain the vision to Daniel.

Luke 4:11 records how Jesus was reminded that the Angels would "bear (Him) up". Presumably this was to be taken literally- the Angels physically with Him would have literally held Him under the arms if He jumped from the temple. So we see the literal physical presence of the Angels in our lives.

If they believed Angels were physically with them in their lives means that we are always in the presence of God, as they represent Him,and the angels are also portrayed in the canonical books of the Old Testament as having a mediatory role in the communication of prophecy from God to man, couldn't it be that they believed that God through His Holy angels was present with them when they assembled together and any serious offense against propriety during these sacred moments would stir up the disapproval of these angelic helpers of the saints, perhaps causing them to depart; and any good deed they witnessed would bring aid from them?
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But having the Holy Spirit indwelling us, isn't that presence enough?
 
just-me

just-me

Banned
#93
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#93
I have heard that there were women coming into the congregation that were serving other gods like the fertility goddess (Ashtaroth), and they dressed a certain way to show that they were wide open for promiscuous actions of sex. The proper women were to make sure they dressed in a modest way in order to outwardly show that they were not one of those prostitutes. Seems that the women serving false gods didn't wear a head covering and sometimes even shaved their heads. That makes sense to me.

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. (1 Corinthians 11:15)
 
I

Is

Guest
#94
#94
just-me said:
I have heard that there were women coming into the congregation that were serving other gods like the fertility goddess (Ashtaroth), and they dressed a certain way to show that they were wide open for promiscuous actions of sex. The proper women were to make sure they dressed in a modest way in order to outwardly show that they were not one of those prostitutes. Seems that the women serving false gods didn't wear a head covering and sometimes even shaved their heads. That makes sense to me.

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. (1 Corinthians 11:15)
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All kinds of thinking was trying to creep into the Church, so, this could be true.
 
I

Is

Guest
#96
#96
posthuman said:
.. but didn't call for them (Matthew 26:53) and didn't rely on them (Luke 4:9-12)
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In the case of Matt. His purpose was to go to shed His blood so why would he call on angels to help Him? And in the case of Luke why should he even entertain the suggestion of satan to throw Himself off the Temple?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#98
Jul 31, 2013
38,620
13,841
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#98
Is said:
In the case of Matt. His purpose was to go to shed His blood so why would he call on angels to help Him? And in the case of Luke why should he even entertain the suggestion of satan to throw Himself off the Temple?
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not to argue, just to think -- but when did Jesus call on angels? ever?

more toward the point of the thread, in the case of the temptation, He answered Satan with the scripture "do not tempt the Lord your God" -- could "not tempting" be at play in the reasoning behind this? i don't mean as in fallen angels being tempted by women, like some suggest about this, but men.
this is central to the reasoning for the burka in Isalm; that men shouldn't be tempted & distracted by the beauty of women, especially in prayer - that's why the women are separated inside a mosque, and even in a synagogue too. is it reasonable that part of Paul's point here is that with angels set with a charge to watch over us, we are in a sense "making work for them"-- so it's for the sake of the angels not having to guard us from this? that's in line with Muslim thought, and i think probably at least similar to Jewish, and Paul i think would have been speaking from a perspective closer to this than an American one, for sure.

just thoughts, Is -- what you replied makes good sense to me for sure :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#99
Jul 31, 2013
38,620
13,841
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#99
BarlyGurl said:
What is your point posthu?
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just thinking it through. i don't really understand this verse, and am pulling out things i think are or may be related & setting them out on a table :)
 
I

Is

Guest
#100
#100
posthuman said:
not to argue, just to think -- but when did Jesus call on angels? ever?

more toward the point of the thread, in the case of the temptation, He answered Satan with the scripture "do not tempt the Lord your God" -- could "not tempting" be at play in the reasoning behind this? i don't mean as in fallen angels being tempted by women, like some suggest about this, but men.
this is central to the reasoning for the burka in Isalm; that men shouldn't be tempted & distracted by the beauty of women, especially in prayer - that's why the women are separated inside a mosque, and even in a synagogue too. is it reasonable that part of Paul's point here is that with angels set with a charge to watch over us, we are in a sense "making work for them"-- so it's for the sake of the angels not having to guard us from this? that's in line with Muslim thought, and i think probably at least similar to Jewish, and Paul i think would have been speaking from a perspective closer to this than an American one, for sure.

just thoughts, Is -- what you replied makes good sense to me for sure :)
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Of course the Luke passage is about tempting God, putting Him to the test. It would be like me saying, OK Lord I'm gonna throw myself in front of this bus and I want you to save me. If your asking would tempting be behind the 1Cor.11:10 passage, I just don't think so, could be Paul is saying don't do anything that is out of order and make the Church look bad in the presence of God's Holy angels.
 
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