Being a Christian and desiring wealth

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Funrider

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Being up front here:

It seems, from my experience, that being a Christian...means being broke, destitute, and struggling for Christ. Again, I feel the Christian life is a bum rap...a ripoff...a sour deal.

It's as if...to want to succeed in life...is to reject success, gain, opportunity, and wealth...for some person who died on a cross for some reason. That makes ZERO SENSE to me.

To be fair, I've been trying to understand what the significance of Jesus dying on a cross is. I STILL CANT SEE IT, and I'm honestly done trying to figure it out. I have gained some ground back in my life through people who HAVE SUCCEEDED in life, NO HELP FROM GOD/JESUS whatsoever.

Why am I a Christian? I was seeking truth. At this point, the truth seems to be "Your life sucks. Accept Jesus as a consolation prize".


If that's what Christianity is all about, you can keep Jesus for yourselves. I have no interest in impoverishing myself for the sake of someone who could care less about ANYONE's salvation.

BUT, if I can live for Jesus AND build wealth, let me know how.

If not, dont bother talking to me.

End of story.
 
I'm not here to argue with you or say that you're wrong or say that I have the answer... I don't.

I'm in the same boat, my friend. Although I can say my boat is probably sinking a bit slower than yours.

I have done everything by the book (bible) since I was 5. I'm a good, down to earth, Christian woman. I don't go out and party every weekend, I don't smoke, I don't run around having sex and I don't lie, cheat, or steal. I do read my bible every week. I attend church every week. I pray (a lot) and worship every chance I get. I have always had a "close" relationship with God (until recently).

I have had a job since I was 14. I have been poor longer than that. I am not a moocher, and have always taken care of myself. I've also always tithed. Do you know where that's got me? $15,000+ in debt with levied accounts and not a dollar to my name.

I make more than minimum wage. I work hard. I am also absolutely penniless and I'm expected to "have faith in God." Faith runs out, my friends. When you put all your trust in this higher being and still can't afford to breathe, faith runs out.
 
I think this is where most Christians stumble.

Here we are - believing and praying ... Putting our trust in God the Almighty who loves us so much and life should be a breeze right?
We assume that as Christians, we're supposed to have magical favour and wealth, and suddenly life becomes full of rainbows and sunshine.

Well my dear friends, harsh as this sounds, I don't think that's what life is about. Do we measure ourselves by wealth, power and success in the eyes of man, or through the eyes of God?

Sure, wealth is good. Sure money can buy you lots of things. But can it really get you the peace that passeth all understanding?
How many people who would sleep tonight, resting their heads on their pillow will sleep with the assurance, that tomorrow they won't die?

What if they did die? What would happen? Life is too short to be concerned about only gaining wealth. Today you might have it all, tomorrow you may lose it.

When you do, what's going to happen to you? Will you still have all assurance that God is with you, no matter what, that surety, that peace?


Only Jesus can give you that.

And being a Christian doesn't mean you have to be a poor, destitute loser. And even if you are, that's just immaterial. Being a Christian is so much more than that. A relationship with God is far more precious than all the wealth in this world.

Having said that, does it mean we live a life of no pain? Of course not. This world is not all there is!!!
The things of this world are passing soon. There's a race going on to the prize that is Christ, and if you get distracted by all these things, you may not be able to reach the finish line.

I am only going to post these scripture.

We are more than conquerors

Romans 8:31-39
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[a] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.[b] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”


37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.



2 Corinthians 4:8-10
We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;10always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies


 
Seriously??
Matthew 19
[h=3]The Rich and the Kingdom of God[/h]16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Is going to Hell really worth it for you? Do you really want to be rich for a little while, and suffer eternally, rather then be poor for such a short time on Earth, and then be greatly rewarded with more wealth than you can imagine in Heaven?!?

Your thinking about this matter isn't right. I hope you come to realize that.
 
Is your faith completely in Jesus and love for Jesus that is genuine and unwavering.... for his saving grace and life transformation which does come with benefits ... open doors to success and favor or is it conditional trust in Jesus for financial wealth and is conditional upon that in your heart? Look deep within your heart and decide which one of these it is, that will give you the answer.
 
Dear Funrider. From one who IS very broke and lived in-and is still in poverty AND have had so very many lacks, setbacks, losses, harms, illnesses, and downright horrors in my life; from here--from this place-- I have a short answer. Jesus said you must be born again. This is number one, in order to, inherit eternal Life, have a relationship -righted in between you and God, to have your sins forgiven, to be able to even rightly claim inheritance with any of God's blessings TO HIS PEOPLE. The bottom line is, it starts with being born again. Jesus said in John, that eternal life IS to know God and Jesus Christ Who He has sent. This is WAR. NOT a cake walk. You can have cake now, and hell later..... Choice. BUT you CAN have a relationship with the ONE Who made you, Who loves you, Who died to save your soul, Who wants you to be with Him--forever in joy safety, rest, peace... Truth is you are a sinner in desperate need of a Savior--That is the message of the Need for the Cross- for everybody. Questions for you. Do you see your sin? Are you grieved by it? Have you realized your utter need to be saved from your sin and from the penalty of that? Things change in this life: changes, good and bad, its not instant blessedness or instant all having it all figured out. The Lord has given you time, how much do you give to Him? Do you read His Book? and talk to Him about what you read, and ask Him to teach you when you read-to be your reading Partner--if you will. Consider also. If you were to "woo,"- pursue a woman and then date. What would be your mindset be-- as to time spent, plans made, conversations had, dates done, and the thoughts you would think when she was not around. Time, effort given and set aside. All else pushed away from involving you when you were with your beloved. The Lord pursues us, we are to pursue Him, with the ardor of a love set on fire. Pursuit--time given-searches made, questions asked , time spent, plans made. sometimes He--tests us--its like asking--do you really want Me? Sometimes He (seems) to withdraw away, sometimes He is very, very silent and be for a long time--BUT He is there. Consider, what I'm saying. I also realize you were doing some venting... I will keep you in my Prayers. Jael
 
Luke 14:27-29
New International Version (NIV)
27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.


28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? 29 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you,
 
Being up front here:

It seems, from my experience, that being a Christian...means being broke, destitute, and struggling for Christ. Again, I feel the Christian life is a bum rap...a ripoff...a sour deal.

It's as if...to want to succeed in life...is to reject success, gain, opportunity, and wealth...for some person who died on a cross for some reason. That makes ZERO SENSE to me.

To be fair, I've been trying to understand what the significance of Jesus dying on a cross is. I STILL CANT SEE IT, and I'm honestly done trying to figure it out. I have gained some ground back in my life through people who HAVE SUCCEEDED in life, NO HELP FROM GOD/JESUS whatsoever.

Why am I a Christian? I was seeking truth. At this point, the truth seems to be "Your life sucks. Accept Jesus as a consolation prize".


If that's what Christianity is all about, you can keep Jesus for yourselves. I have no interest in impoverishing myself for the sake of someone who could care less about ANYONE's salvation.

BUT, if I can live for Jesus AND build wealth, let me know how.

If not, dont bother talking to me.

End of story.

You most certainly CAN live with Jesus and have wealth. The problem I am finding is your associating the two? What does money have to do with Jesus and what does Jesus have to do with money? You're wanting God to magically make you a wealthy man? That isn't usually how it works, no matter how much the pastor says God will give you money for putting money in the collection plate ;)

If you want spiritual wealth, you seek the advice of God.

If you want financial wealth. This has very little to do with God IMO. You gotta work man. You gotta get up on your butt TODAY and start making things happen. Set career goals and work EACH DAY to attain those goals. If you see what you want to do and immediately start working toward it each and every day, you will attain what you are working for, but you gotta put in the work. Can God, make things happen along the way as you are busting your butt? Yep. But your goals wont just magically be attained with a wave of God's hand and you just sitting back and chilling. That's not usually how things operate.

Of course you have friends who are super successful and don't have God in their lives. Hows their spiritual lives? Would they chill if they were told that they were going to die tomorrow?
 
Being up front here:
It seems, from my experience, that being a Christian...means being broke, destitute, and struggling for Christ. Again, I feel the Christian life is a bum rap...a ripoff...a sour deal.

It's as if...to want to succeed in life...is to reject success, gain, opportunity, and wealth...for some person who died on a cross for some reason. That makes ZERO SENSE to me.

To be fair, I've been trying to understand what the significance of Jesus dying on a cross is. I STILL CANT SEE IT, and I'm honestly done trying to figure it out. I have gained some ground back in my life through people who HAVE SUCCEEDED in life, NO HELP FROM GOD/JESUS whatsoever.

Why am I a Christian? I was seeking truth. At this point, the truth seems to be "Your life sucks. Accept Jesus as a consolation prize".


If that's what Christianity is all about, you can keep Jesus for yourselves. I have no interest in impoverishing myself for the sake of someone who could care less about ANYONE's salvation.

BUT, if I can live for Jesus AND build wealth, let me know how.

If not, dont bother talking to me.

End of story.


Christ called us to love. And laid out some ground rules for love. One of them is to put others before yourself. In doing this, we are called to give generously to the homeless and downtrodden. Those forgotten, or cast out by the world. Maybe you can do this and maintain wealth. We know that Jesus didn't insist that businessmen give up their businesses or they would be condemned to hell. There were men who owned land and produced much. You even can see that Solomon was wealthy beyond belief. In the end, if the amount of wealth is a goal, then it easily becomes an idol. And that is detrimental to a commitment to the one true God.

In the end, I think it is most important to focus on love. The sacrifice that Jesus made was significant in that it was the grandest display of God's love. It provides us with an example to sacrifice ourselves in the pursuit of furthering God's kingdom. Love is kind, it does't envy, it always protects.

Best of luck as you continue to seek answers.
 
Thank you for your feedback folks. I had answers set for everyone, but one thing is clear to me: Almost all of you that attest to God being Good...talk about God and 'relationships'. Specifically, that God seeks a relationship with everyone.

To be clear, I still seek Jesus and the cross, only ON THE BASIS...that I know Jesus is the truth, the way, and the life. No other source of faith, belief, or doctrine can fulfill what Jesus did on the cross. MY PROBLEM...is that I believe, in the process of accepting Christ...I believe God has become an OBSTACLE to what I want to achieve in life.

I want to be a leader and wealthy business owner. Yes, it takes hard work. I am working hard to prepare for my 2nd round of business. I know what has to get done. But God ALWAYS GETS IN MY WAY. I cant get things done on my time, because I have to get things done on God's time. I dont like God's time. I dont like how God favors others and gives me the short end of the stick every single time. I can NEVER be grateful for anything God does for me, or what Jesus did for me, because it is never good enough for what I'm trying to accomplish.

It's not just about me. I'm trying to help others as well. I want to build something to guard against the collapsing economy, but God's plan just seems to be torturing and punishing his devout followers. I do not like God very much. Sure, I tried to follow his plan, but to me, it's garbage. It's a horrible deal, he's a slavedriver, an unfair wagemaster, and a cunning opportunist, who is no different than a corporate stockbroker. He overworks his followers, and underpays them, IF he even has anyone paid at all, BUT, if we're good boys and girls, doing his work while he cheats EVERYONE, we get "eternal life".

Are you beginning to understand where I'm coming from? God's a cheat. THAT's why I cant stand doing the work. I believe God is a cheat and a swindler who scammed the human race with a false promise of salvation. I know I am WRONG, but that doesn't change how I FEEL, and I simply feel cheated and deceived by a gospel that, at first, was supposed to be of peace, promise, love, and goodwill, but ended up being a complete waste of my time, thus far.

Also:

Is your faith completely in Jesus and love for Jesus that is genuine and unwavering.... for his saving grace and life transformation which does come with benefits ... open doors to success and favor
or is it conditional trust in Jesus for financial wealth and is conditional upon that in your heart? Look deep within your heart and decide which one of these it is, that will give you the answer.


I originally came to Jesus for that love...that genuine and unwavering love. That promise of peace and salvation. So what if I was broke? I could live in the spirit, and do good for all in the world, rich OR poor. At this point, it was a bum rap. A ripoff. A deception. I saw NONE OF IT. I SEE NO PEACE OR LOVE...just a broken promise.

...I could have sought means to make oodles of cash, but I chose to pursue Christ.
...I could have promoted in clubs and get into the NYC underworld, but I chose to live a clean, repentant life for Christ.
...I could have kept my previous associations and connections, but I chose to give it up for Christ.

...I gained nothing thus far.
...I still hope for that deliverance.
...I dont think it's coming.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please. I want to believe God is good, but I'm slowly losing patience, and the will to even continue at this point.
 
Thank you for your feedback folks. I had answers set for everyone, but one thing is clear to me: Almost all of you that attest to God being Good...talk about God and 'relationships'. Specifically, that God seeks a relationship with everyone.

To be clear, I still seek Jesus and the cross, only ON THE BASIS...that I know Jesus is the truth, the way, and the life. No other source of faith, belief, or doctrine can fulfill what Jesus did on the cross. MY PROBLEM...is that I believe, in the process of accepting Christ...I believe God has become an OBSTACLE to what I want to achieve in life.

I want to be a leader and wealthy business owner. Yes, it takes hard work. I am working hard to prepare for my 2nd round of business. I know what has to get done. But God ALWAYS GETS IN MY WAY. I cant get things done on my time, because I have to get things done on God's time. I dont like God's time. I dont like how God favors others and gives me the short end of the stick every single time. I can NEVER be grateful for anything God does for me, or what Jesus did for me, because it is never good enough for what I'm trying to accomplish.

It's not just about me. I'm trying to help others as well. I want to build something to guard against the collapsing economy, but God's plan just seems to be torturing and punishing his devout followers. I do not like God very much. Sure, I tried to follow his plan, but to me, it's garbage. It's a horrible deal, he's a slavedriver, an unfair wagemaster, and a cunning opportunist, who is no different than a corporate stockbroker. He overworks his followers, and underpays them, IF he even has anyone paid at all, BUT, if we're good boys and girls, doing his work while he cheats EVERYONE, we get "eternal life".

Are you beginning to understand where I'm coming from? God's a cheat. THAT's why I cant stand doing the work. I believe God is a cheat and a swindler who scammed the human race with a false promise of salvation. I know I am WRONG, but that doesn't change how I FEEL, and I simply feel cheated and deceived by a gospel that, at first, was supposed to be of peace, promise, love, and goodwill, but ended up being a complete waste of my time, thus far.

Also:



[/B]I originally came to Jesus for that love...that genuine and unwavering love. That promise of peace and salvation. So what if I was broke? I could live in the spirit, and do good for all in the world, rich OR poor. At this point, it was a bum rap. A ripoff. A deception. I saw NONE OF IT. I SEE NO PEACE OR LOVE...just a broken promise.

...I could have sought means to make oodles of cash, but I chose to pursue Christ.
...I could have promoted in clubs and get into the NYC underworld, but I chose to live a clean, repentant life for Christ.
...I could have kept my previous associations and connections, but I chose to give it up for Christ.

...I gained nothing thus far.
...I still hope for that deliverance.
...I dont think it's coming.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please. I want to believe God is good, but I'm slowly losing patience, and the will to even continue at this point.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Bible, but it seems that you might not be all that familiar. Here are a few stories that show what happens to people that try to guide themselves instead of completely surrendering to God's will:

Numbers 22 [around verse 21 in particular] - Balaam's disobedience (angel with a giant sword)
Jonah 1 [1-3 and 13-16] - Jonah's fear of Nineveh
Judges - The entire book is about God's people thinking that they knew best

If you doubt this, I certainly can provide many additional examples. Your posts make it sound like you believe that God exists, but not that He is Omniscient and Benevolent. God's will is far better than our own. He is God, and knows us better than we know ourselves. He will protect us and guide us and love us. That is a God worth following. Leading yourself, having your own desires that are apart from God, is like a blind man trying to walk to Mexico alone.

As Jesus demonstrated in Gethsemane: He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

As we were instructed to pray: “This, then, is how you should pray:“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven...


"Good" by itself is just good. For Christians, there is a bigger picture. The kingdom of God; righteousness, love. It isn't just morality or sacrifice, it is much deeper than that. In closing, I guess I would encourage you to try to discover what love means to God. It is a concept that has taken thousands of years to demonstrate. Something that is not as simple as a two sentence dictionary definition or a warm feeling. God is love, the only way to truly understand love is by understanding God a little more every day. The truth is, the greatest benefit of salvation isn't peace, or the thought of heaven(those are just bonuses). It is the opportunity to expand God's kingdom by following His will. In heaven, we know that we will finally be able to do that perfectly. In the meantime, we strive to do it better as He helps guide us towards it.

... If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing. - 1 Corinthians 13: 1-3

So much I want to say, but not enough time to get even this much edited to flow better. Just some thoughts and verses to consider.
 
Look dear, I led quite a few years of my life being mad at God because he was getting in the way of I wanted to do. He wanted me to do what he had planned, and I wanted to do what I had planned.

When I finally decided to surrender to him, and do what I was supposed to do, God blessed me in multiple ways. And they were not exactly what I had planned, but in the end I could see how they were even better than what I would have had for myself!!

Ultimately you have to stop being angry and stubborn with him and you need to learn to trust him. He will take care of you, and if you're pursuing him, He will grant you the desires of your heart.
 
Another note,....

You have to be able to sacrifice whatever it is that you love most. That's what God did for us, and he needs to see Commitment on our part. It hurts so badly,..but it must be done, and is rewarded.

The fact that you think God "owes" you anything is kinda preposterous. He keeps the air pumping through your lungs.

My heart feels for you, because I understand what you're feeling to a point, and I know that you won't change until your heart gets broken, crushed, somehow. Then you'll see.

I'd be poor, and homeless any day if that meant I was able to live my life with Jesus. Its worth it. I promise.
 
You can't. Jesus himself said it isn't possible.

You can live for Jesus and possibly accummlate wealth, but it doesn't work the other way around or at the same time.
 
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You know, I've wondered that myself. I would wonder on way different scenarios people display that it is how 'it should be' in order to follow a religious belief. It's quite obvious that people differ with their opinions, but I wouldn't believe it for a second if people say 'I'll even go as far as this to follow' when it's pretty clear that they have not. Truth of the matter is, we don't know to what extent people do to follow a Being. It's said that you can't have the riches of the world and still believe, but I don't think you need to be dirt poor to follow them either. If you want to see dirt poor, go to a third world country that has nothing but starvation and disease, and still say that you'd follow Christ. Or that you'd rather die from cancer than to live a full ninety years on earth never knowing Jesus. I dare someone to do so. Because I highly doubt many would actually do it, including myself.

Nobody's asking you to lead a life full of despair and poverty. When people do say to 'give everything up', however, I would think that they're saying it in a term where you just put your life to a halt and give it a thought as to what direction you're actually going while making these choices. It doesn't say you have to be dirt poor and living on the streets.
 
Revelation 3:17 - Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Genesis 13:2 - And Abram [was] very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Luke 18:25 - For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:


1 Timothy 6:9 - But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Matthew 19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.

Proverbs 13:11 - Wealth [gotten] by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.


1 Samuel 2:7 - The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.


Basically, there is a problem with being rich. It is easy to fall into temptation, be vain, etc. However, if you want to gain money to help others because you don't have enough money, then that is different in my opinion (I can be wrong).
 
That's really interesting.

I do not believe that there is any basis to legitimise the idea of Christian poverty. Let's get it straight, God wants us to order our lives so that we seek first His kingdom and it righteousness, after-which all other things will be added. The Bible also makes clear that if we give, it shall be given unto us, good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over (according to the measure we give). That doesn't sound like poverty to me! It stands to reason that getting rich should never be anyone's motivation to seek God. The accumulation of vast sums of money for the sake of it, whilst the gospel of Jesus Christ needs to be preached and whilst the people around the world are hungry, is egregious in the extreme. But if we seek the heart of God, align our priorities to His and prove that we can be faithful in little, then it is likely that He will trust us to be faithful in much.

What I would say is that the purpose of wealth in the hands of a Christian should not be as it is in the world. As a Christian my primary motivation for acquiring wealth should be to feed my family and support the work of the Lord on earth. By so doing I make myself a channel for His uninterrupted financial blessings. The more I receive the more I can give and the more I give, the more I will receive and so on. That is a prosperity spirit!

God is not poor and does not want his children to be poor. The reason why so many Christians are poor is because very often, we misunderstand God's heart on financial matters and therefore mis-apply the principles of sowing and reaping.
 
How is it that God is preventing you from reaching these things? Do you see any character flaws that you might pick up doing your job? Is it possible that you'll forget all about God once you've obtained your success and you've enjoyed it for many years? It may be your own flaws that's keeping you from you want. God knows the best time for everything.

The bible says (if I remember correctly) ye ask and ye receive not because ask amiss, to spend on your pleasures.
And Jesus says (if I remember correctly) If you ask for something ACCORDING TO HIS WILL (not your own). How will your success bring more people to God?
 
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I forgot to add it will be done for the second verse I used.


By the way, maybe you just to work hard like bushido said. And I bet there are other factors hindering you as well.