Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

[GWH]

There are any number of theological questions we humans raise, including, what is the proper understanding of various scripture passages. There are ample arguments in this forum over such passages such as does a specific passage support or not support OSAS.

As for life, we are living physical lives while we claim specific spiritual beliefs, are we consistent in how we live our physical lives and what we profess to believe?

We do not know whose names are in the Book of Life with any certainty, but we like to claim that our names are included.

If God has the book, He does not allow us to see it. He does allow us to see multiple books that we profess to believe are His word, but those books are defined as God's word by other fallible humans, using various claims of faith to provide the necessary proof. We do not have any written record, or verbal record for that matter, that can be proven, except by faith, to be from God that dictates what books qualify as God's direct words to us. For instance, the Book of Jasher was highly regarded for divine insight at one time according to works we call "God's Word", but no one knows what it said.

Well, regarding OSAS, the 16 passages teaching the need for perseverance are sufficient to convince me to amend my former understanding thanks to mistaken Baptist teaching.

As for life, mine is consistent with what I believe. If yours is the same, then it can be said that WE are not hypocrites (Matt. 23).

As for the BofL, I am confident that I satisfy GRFS revealed in the NT and so my name is in it (2Cor. 5:4-5).

God allows us to see all the book we need, including both the OT & NT and what is revealed by creation (Rom. 1:20).

Yes, we are fallible whether we choose to believe or disbelieve the books, so we (atheists included) walk by faith (2Cor. 5:7).

Not sure why you perseverate about the Book of Jasher.

 

[rewriter]

Well, regarding OSAS, the 16 passages teaching the need for perseverance are sufficient to convince me to amend my former understanding thanks to mistaken Baptist teaching.

As for life, mine is consistent with what I believe. If yours is the same, then it can be said that WE are not hypocrites (Matt. 23).

As for the BofL, I am confident that I satisfy GRFS revealed in the NT and so my name is in it (2Cor. 5:4-5).

God allows us to see all the book we need, including both the OT & NT and what is revealed by creation (Rom. 1:20).

Yes, we are fallible whether we choose to believe or disbelieve the books, so we (atheists included) walk by faith (2Cor. 5:7).

Not sure why you perseverate about the Book of Jasher.

We seem to agree on much. As for the Book of Jasher, at one time it was considered important. Now were those who found it important mistaken, or did God allow it to be lost even though it could/did reveal important knowledge? We simply do not and cannot know with certainty, but its loss can raise questions about how God preserves His word.

 

[DavidLamb]

So, we have many phrases we often use instead of these scriptural words, to talk about getting eternal salvation.

'Turning from sin and making Jesus Lord or your life '

'Committing your life to Christ'

'Asking Jesus into your heart'

Etc..

These aren't actually in scripture..although may be fully supported by scripture.

The key thing is.. how do you know if these kind of scriptures are the same as 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ'

I certainly would say that we cannot make Jesus Lord; He is King of kings and Lord of lords. That's why the apostles told the Philippian jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not just believe in Jesus. Incidentally, they didn't tell him to ask Jesus into his heart, either. I cannot think of a single instance inthe bible of sinners being told to ask Jesus into their hearts.

 

[GWH]

We seem to agree on much. As for the Book of Jasher, at one time it was considered important. Now were those who found it important mistaken, or did God allow it to be lost even though it could/did reveal important knowledge? We simply do not and cannot know with certainty, but its loss can raise questions about how God preserves His word.

Well, its loss can mean that God deemed it unimportant and not worth preserving.

 

[memberofthebride]

I certainly would say that He is King of kings and Lord of lords. That's why the apostles told the Philippian jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not just believe in Jesus. Incidentally, they didn't tell him to ask Jesus into his heart, either. I cannot think of a single instance inthe bible of sinners being told to ask Jesus into their hearts.

"we have many phrases we often use instead of these scriptural words, to talk about--- getting eternal salvation."

No one can "get" or earn or find or what ever word used --- salvation i.e. eternal life ----It is a free Gift!

If the Father does not call a person and give that person to Jesus Christ, that person can never on their own--- "FIND" Jesus or gain eternal life.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How is this overlooked?? it is clear --- only those few the Father draws out of this evil world and turns over to Jesus Christ can become followers of Jesus Christ; become Christians.

It is utterly impossible for an individual, on their own, by their own will and power, to find Jesus, to repent and to be baptized and enter God's life long process of salvation.

11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. "except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"

these are the words from the mouth of our Maker ---

 

[DavidLamb]

"we have many phrases we often use instead of these scriptural words, to talk about--- getting eternal salvation."

No one can "get" or earn or find or what ever word used --- salvation i.e. eternal life ----It is a free Gift!

If the Father does not call a person and give that person to Jesus Christ, that person can never on their own--- "FIND" Jesus or gain eternal life.


How is this overlooked?? it is clear --- only those few the Father draws out of this evil world and turns over to Jesus Christ can become followers of Jesus Christ; become Christians.

It is utterly impossible for an individual, on their own, by their own will and power, to find Jesus, to repent and to be baptized and enter God's life long process of salvation.



these are the words from the mouth of our Maker --- [/B]

Yes I agree that salvation is gift of God - it's all of His grace.

 

[memberofthebride]

Yes I agree that salvation is gift of God - it's all of His grace.

It is by the "kindness", the mercy, the Agape of The Father that He sent His first Born Son to be beaten half to death and then hung on a stake to be bled to death --- for those that hated Him -- 100% sinners under sentence of eternal death.
That kindness, that love is beyond the mind of man to comprehend.
I do not use the word 'grace'. That word has been changed in to a doctrine I do not find in the Word.
Strong's defines Grace as #5485 charis: Grace, favor, kindness, blessing

 

[DavidLamb]

It is by the "kindness", the mercy, the Agape of The Father that He sent His first Born Son to be beaten half to death and then hung on a stake to be bled to death --- for those that hated Him -- 100% sinners under sentence of eternal death.
That kindness, that love is beyond the mind of man to comprehend.
I do not use the word 'grace'. That word has been changed in to a doctrine I do not find in the Word.
Strong's defines Grace as #5485 charis: Grace, favor, kindness, blessing

Someone (I don't know who) made GRACE into an acrostic: God's Riches at Christ's Expense. I do use the word "grace", though if I am speaking or writing to somebody who may misunderstand it, I take care to explain the biblical meaning.

 

[GWH]

It is by the "kindness", the mercy, the Agape of The Father that He sent His first Born Son to be beaten half to death and then hung on a stake to be bled to death --- for those that hated Him -- 100% sinners under sentence of eternal death.
That kindness, that love is beyond the mind of man to comprehend.
I do not use the word 'grace'. That word has been changed in to a doctrine I do not find in the Word.
Strong's defines Grace as #5485 charis: Grace, favor, kindness, blessing

I do not agree with surrendering Scriptural words to Satan.
Fight for divine love to mean agape, NOT sex; and for God's grace to mean charis, NOT whatever you think it is being changed to.

 

[rewriter]

Well, its loss can mean that God deemed it unimportant and not worth preserving.

That is possible, but it remains possible that God allowed it to be lost for some other reason also. We simply do not know what we do not know. That is why I deem it important to learn as much as possible about the original settings for biblical writing, so that I may see them as the original readers would have seen them rather than with purely 21st century eyes and assumptions.

 

[GWH]

That is possible, but it remains possible that God allowed it to be lost for some other reason also. We simply do not know what we do not know. That is why I deem it important to learn as much as possible about the original settings for biblical writing, so that I may see them as the original readers would have seen them rather than with purely 21st century eyes and assumptions.

What other reason would God have for allowing it to be lost?
Why do you deem important what God deems to be unimportant?

Don't get me wrong. As a TSer I think there is nothing wrong with learning all truth, but it is a matter/issue of priority.

 

[rewriter]

What other reason would God have for allowing it to be lost?
Why do you deem important what God deems to be unimportant?

Don't get me wrong. As a TSer I think there is nothing wrong with learning all truth, but it is a matter/issue of priority.

I wonder about what it might have said and wonder about what has been lost. There are other works directly and indirectly referenced in scripture, including Jubilees (appears favorably) and Enoch (I suspect unfavorably).

My bigger concern is what was known by most people in the 1st century that most people today do not know. One example is the link between Eastern Orthodox Christmas, the Cana miracle and the traditional date of a reported pagan miracle. If that connection is more than just random chance, it might well explain many other things in the NT, including the issue of women's hair in Corinth and 2 Timothy 3:16. Might such be relevant or is it too absurd to consider.

 

[wattie]

I certainly would say that we cannot make Jesus Lord; He is King of kings and Lord of lords. That's why the apostles told the Philippian jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, not just believe in Jesus. Incidentally, they didn't tell him to ask Jesus into his heart, either. I cannot think of a single instance inthe bible of sinners being told to ask Jesus into their hearts.

Here is an awesome response to God to be saved:

Luke 18:13 KJV
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

 

[wattie]

"we have many phrases we often use instead of these scriptural words, to talk about--- getting eternal salvation."

No one can "get" or earn or find or what ever word used --- salvation i.e. eternal life ----It is a free Gift!

If the Father does not call a person and give that person to Jesus Christ, that person can never on their own--- "FIND" Jesus or gain eternal life.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How is this overlooked?? it is clear --- only those few the Father draws out of this evil world and turns over to Jesus Christ can become followers of Jesus Christ; become Christians.

It is utterly impossible for an individual, on their own, by their own will and power, to find Jesus, to repent and to be baptized and enter God's life long process of salvation.

11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. "except the Father which hath sent me draw him:"

these are the words from the mouth of our Maker ---

It certainly is a free gift. And it is given by belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. As recorded all thru the book of John, in Acts with the jail, plus other accounts.

Belief is not a work.. and comes thru being drawn by the will of the Father. But I am no Calvinist and know that drawing can be resisted by the lost person.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What theological question?
What life in keeping with what belief?
Whose name does God assure is in the Book of Life?
What book does God allow us to see?

Do you think “ the lambs book of life “

would have anything to do with the promises he made by his word in the gospel to believers for eternal life ?

 

[memberofthebride]

It certainly is a free gift. And it is given by belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. As recorded all thru the book of John, in Acts with the jail, plus other accounts.

Belief is not a work.. and comes thru being drawn by the will of the Father. But I am no Calvinist and know that drawing can be resisted by the lost person.

belief is one thing -- believing is another

If a person believes Jesus Christ they will do what He tell them they must do.
Eternal life can not be earned but it requires DOING action.

Luke 17

7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?

8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?

9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Obeying the commands of Christ is our Duty, no reward for doing our duty.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

belief is one thing -- believing is another

If a person believes Jesus Christ they will do what He tell them they must do.
Eternal life can not be earned but it requires DOING action.

Luke 17

7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?

8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?

9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Obeying the commands of Christ is our Duty, no reward for doing our duty.

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you look closely he makes promises when he gives commands

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, ( instruction to the believer ) and ye shall not be judged: ( result of obedience )

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, ( command ) and ye shall be forgiven: ( result )

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-


remember he’s talking about mercy , judgement , condemnation , forgiveness …then telling them by the same measure you use this measure you’ll receive even greater .

there’s always rewards and blessings attatched to jesus instructions it’s part of Gods character to bless and give and reward his children when they walk in his presence

 

[memberofthebride]

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you look closely he makes promises when he gives commands

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, ( instruction to the believer ) and ye shall not be judged: ( result of obedience )

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, ( command ) and ye shall be forgiven: ( result )

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-


remember he’s talking about mercy , judgement , condemnation , forgiveness …then telling them by the same measure you use this measure you’ll receive even greater .

there’s always rewards and blessings attatched to jesus instructions it’s part of Gods character to bless and give and reward his children when they walk in his presence

you mean when they obey?

 

[GWH]

I wonder about what it might have said and wonder about what has been lost. There are other works directly and indirectly referenced in scripture, including Jubilees (appears favorably) and Enoch (I suspect unfavorably).

My bigger concern is what was known by most people in the 1st century that most people today do not know. One example is the link between Eastern Orthodox Christmas, the Cana miracle and the traditional date of a reported pagan miracle. If that connection is more than just random chance, it might well explain many other things in the NT, including the issue of women's hair in Corinth and 2 Timothy 3:16. Might such be relevant or is it too absurd to consider.

Well, IMO those do not matter, but I also have been curious about such trivia.

 

[wattie]

belief is one thing -- believing is another

If a person believes Jesus Christ they will do what He tell them they must do.
Eternal life can not be earned but it requires DOING action.

Luke 17

7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?

8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?

9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Obeying the commands of Christ is our Duty, no reward for doing our duty.

John 6:40 KJV
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.