BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[crossnote]

practice makes perfect, the more we practice obeying the easier it becomes.

The cross we bear is heavier in proportion to the growth in faith. It never gets easier...our faith grows stronger.

 

[chubbena]

god commanded the hebrews to march around jericho 7 days, therefore missing the sabbath, Joshua 6

Certainly. Like I said on the other thread, if the Holy Spirit moves any of us to watch an R rated movie, a ball game and cheer for our favorite star, to shop the latest fashion item on sale on a Sabbath, go right ahead. In fact, do it everyday instead of limiting such on the Sabbath.
In Christ we are free to do whatever, including to abide by the law so let's not put a burden on those who try but fail to completely obey the law. Just remember we are all free.

 

[chubbena]

The cross we bear is heavier in proportion to the growth in faith. It never gets easier...our faith grows stronger.

Pull it out of the eye would have become easier
Sorry can't help...just wanted to have some fun after a long day on the forum.
Please carry on with the normal conversation...

 

[gotime]

Hi gotime, old friend. We meet again

I realize that you're not saying that you think your saved by keeping the law/10 commandments.

My issue is with the claim of legalists that say the same as you say above, BUT then also add that obedience to the law is required as proof one has "imparted" righteousness and salvation.

Gotime, what does the doctrine you follow say about the many Christians here who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Hey Haz, blessings.

I am SDA, Our stance on those who do not Keep the 7th day Sabbath is simple. We believe and teach that there will probably be more people saved who currently do not keep the 7th day Sabbath than those who do currently keep it.

The reason for this is that Many SDA's think that by keeping it they will be saved and thus they make it about a legal works based position rather than a Faith Based relationship with Jesus who died for our sins. Not every SDA Is like this but many are.

That does not take away from the Fact that we also believe that the issue over Sabbath will become a big issue in the near future. It will start innocently enough by way of a Family Day in law. We see this happening already although we were laughed at when saying this over 100 years ago. but it will not stop there, it can be seen in the Vatican official documents that the Family Day is actually their Idea to bring unity and to bring people back to Sunday worship which they claim to be in honor of the Catholic church. (see their own official writings for this).

We do not believe it is the mark of the beast yet, but we do believe it will be when the law is passed in such a way as to persecute those who keep the 7th day Sabbath. Then People will have to make a choice who to follow, Man or God.

That is it in a simplified way feel free to ask questions.

blessings

 

[gotime]

I know you do not believe Ellen White was a Prophet, but to show that she herself taught this:

"Sunday keeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this idol Sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet"

She spent most of her time telling us off for being legalistic and preaching the law without Jesus. Her main ministry was to correct us and point us to have faith in Jesus.

here is where she told them to focus on Jesus and that they had spent too much time on the law without Jesus:

"Yesterday morning I arose with an agony upon my soul, and I could only say, "Lord, thou knowest all about it. My heart is burdened, and thou knowest that I cannot bear this load. I must have more help than I yet have had. Thou knowest that when I see men taking positions contrary to thy word, I am crushed under the load, and I can do nothing without thy help." It seemed that as I prayed a wave of light fell about me, and a voice said, "I will be with thee to strengthen thee." Since then I have been resting in Jesus. I can hide in him. I am not going to carry this load any longer. I shall lay it down at the feet of my Redeemer. {RH, March 11, 1890 par. 12}
Brethren, shall we not all of us leave our loads there? and when we leave this meeting, may it be with the truth burning in our souls like fire shut up in our bones. You will meet with those who will say, "You are too much excited over this matter. You are too much in earnest. You should not be reaching for the righteousness of Christ, and making so much of that. You should preach the law." As a people, we have preached the law until we are as dry as the hills of Gilboa that had neither dew nor rain. We must preach Christ in the law, and there will be sap and nourishment in the preaching that will be as food to the famishing flock of God. We must not trust in our own merits at all, but in the merits of Jesus of Nazareth. Our eyes must be anointed with eye-salve. We must draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to us, if we come in his own appointed way. O that you may go forth as the disciples did after the day of Pentecost, and then your testimony will have a living ring, and souls will be converted to God."

People miss what Ellen true focus was and that was Christ and Him Crucified. If people read her writings properly they would see that she was trying to correct our church from a works based religion to a Faith based trust in the merits of Jesus Death for our sins.

Because of this Fact there are Many Adventist who do not like Ellen White because they think she does not focus enough on the law.

That being said, The bible is our teacher so that is what really matters.

 

[gotime]

In fact Ellen White was not happy with people using her for their doctrine instead of the bible and thus said this:

Lay Sister White right to one side: lay her to one side. Don't you never quote my words again as long as you live, until you can obey the Bible. When you take the Bible and make that your food, and your meat, and your drink, and make that the elements of your character, when you can do that you will know better how to receive some counsel from God. But here is the Word, the precious Word, exalted before you today. And don't you give a rap any more what "Sister White said"-- "Sister White said this," and "Sister White said that," and "Sister White said the other thing." But say, "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel," and then you do just what the Lord God of Israel does, and what he says. {SpM 167.2}

 

[gotime]

If I may briefly explain what The Gospel is to me.

I was trapped in sin and my only end was Death, The law/10 commandments showed me My sin and I was without excuse before God. But the law/sacrificial system also pointed me to a savior even Jesus Christ.

HE died for my sins and gave me a clean slate, I was declared righteous by Jesus' righteousness. His goodness, His love. I had nothing to offer Him but a broken vessel. Yet through His blood I was reconciled to God.

But that was not all He imputed His own righteousness to me by Faith in his death for my sins. and when He did this His Spirit came into my body temple and cleaned me out for real. He gives me a new heart that no longer delights in sin but in righteousness. He is not only my pardon in His blood, but my strength in His life.

He keeps me from falling, and directs my Paths, He is constantly my shepherd who protects and lifts me up, He leads me to green pastures where I can eat and rest in his leading, He leads me to safe waters that I may drink. He leads me in paths of righteousness that He may be Glorified.

I could do nothing without Him leading constantly and all this was paid for by Him on the cross. every bit. He is not just my pardon but my ever present shepherd and in Him I have want of nothing because He supplies all my needs according to His riches in Glory.

I could not keep the law before Christ, O I tried but I failed and became discouraged and bitter and Judgmental. Then I realized that Jesus wants to live in Me. That He establishes even my thoughts and brings even the thoughts into obedience to His love. His imputed righteousness is His imputed Love and it is that Love which transforms a law breaker into a law keeper. Now I delight in His law and it is becoming more and more natural to keep it. Yet it requires daily minutely surrender to His will.

I have found the Grace in Christ of such power that everything changes. you don't just keep the law in the letter but the deeper meaning, even the thoughts. This is impossible for man to do because only Gods love is like this, thus we need His love in us. WE get this by Faith in Jesus not only as our sin barer but Our Lord of our life.

Blessed be the Lord Our God.

 

[RedTent]

That does not take away from the Fact that we also believe that the issue over Sabbath will become a big issue in the near future. It will start innocently enough by way of a Family Day in law. We see this happening already although we were laughed at when saying this over 100 years ago. but it will not stop there, it can be seen in the Vatican official documents that the Family Day is actually their Idea to bring unity and to bring people back to Sunday worship which they claim to be in honor of the Catholic church. (see their own official writings for this).
blessings

It wasn't too many years ago that for most people Sabbath wasn't an issue at all. Really, the issue isn't about Saturday or Sunday worship, what started it being an issue was looking at all our worship to be sure it was directed by scripture or by men's ideas. Now, all our traditions are being questioned, as more and more people are understanding how the Old Testament applies to Christ. No one read the Old Testament with any idea of checking what Christ fulfilled of such as the sacrifices, or the high priest, checking to see how it relates to how Christ made it. We took it for granted that the feasts were cancelled, never checking scripture to find out. Our churches said so, that was enough no matter what scripture said.

There is a new day in the churches, as profound as the Protestant Revolution, and just as that made even enemies, so this revolution is also.

 

[gotime]

I don't view keeping the law as my salvation for this is a denial of Jesus. but keeping the law which is the fruit of Christs love in us is a mark of freedom from sin in Jesus. True freedom when sin no longer has dominion, Sin can not make me do anything. For it is Christ and him crucified and resurrected not only this He intercedes for me.

Greater Is Jesus who is in us than the Devil who is in the world. I can't explain it, I don't understand it. All I know is when I trusted Jesus to come into my life and change my heart something changed. All I know is that however He does it He is faithful to His promise.

There is freedom in Christ for everyone who believes on His name.

 

[Linda70]

Christ came to redeem men from bondage to the law, to remove their condemnation by paying the price the law demanded for man's sin. Those who try to bring believers back under the law are deceiving men and pointing them away from the finished work of Christ and true Bible freedom in Him. They themselves are cursed because of their false gospel, and they are leading others from truth into their curse. The goal of salvation is not to bring the believer to the law, but to present him perfect in Christ.

...David W. Cloud (Way of Life Encycopedia: Seventh Day Adventism: Conclusion)

 

[gotime]

It wasn't too many years ago that for most people Sabbath wasn't an issue at all. Really, the issue isn't about Saturday or Sunday worship, what started it being an issue was looking at all our worship to be sure it was directed by scripture or by men's ideas. Now, all our traditions are being questioned, as more and more people are understanding how the Old Testament applies to Christ. No one read the Old Testament with any idea of checking what Christ fulfilled of such as the sacrifices, or the high priest, checking to see how it relates to how Christ made it. We took it for granted that the feasts were cancelled, never checking scripture to find out. Our churches said so, that was enough no matter what scripture said.

There is a new day in the churches, as profound as the Protestant Revolution, and just as that made even enemies, so this revolution is also.

Agreed, The reformation is not yet finished but God is bringing it to a close. When Jesus Preached He said "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" this he meant the Grace that would be poured out at His Death. Thus in Him we come to the throne of Grace.

But now it is time to sound the same message "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" this kingdom is the throne of Glory the heavenly Kingdom.

Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

 

[gotime]

Christ came to redeem men from bondage to the law, to remove their condemnation by paying the price the law demanded for man's sin. Those who try to bring believers back under the law are deceiving men and pointing them away from the finished work of Christ and true Bible freedom in Him. They themselves are cursed because of their false gospel, and they are leading others from truth into their curse. The goal of salvation is not to bring the believer to the law, but to present him perfect in Christ.

...David W. Cloud (Way of Life Encycopedia: Seventh Day Adventism: Conclusion)

The goal of salvation is indeed Christ to that I say amen. The law can not save, never could never will. Jesus saves.

 

[gotime]

I have spent much time on here uplifting the 7th day Sabbath and the commandments of God. would it shock you to know that I actually believe that the law on stone is done away with when we come to Christ by Faith?

 

[RedTent]

Christ came to redeem men from bondage to the law, to remove their condemnation by paying the price the law demanded for man's sin. Those who try to bring believers back under the law are deceiving men and pointing them away from the finished work of Christ and true Bible freedom in Him. They themselves are cursed because of their false gospel, and they are leading others from truth into their curse. The goal of salvation is not to bring the believer to the law, but to present him perfect in Christ.

...David W. Cloud (Way of Life Encycopedia: Seventh Day Adventism: Conclusion)

What do you think of when you read of bondage in the bible? Isn't it sin? Christ paid for our sin. If you are under the law and not Christ wouldn't that mean that obedience to law would have to pay and not Christ? So that gets rid of law for salvation.

Now, you say that anyone is cursed if they try to keep the law for any reason. We have discarded salvation as a reason, but God loves us and after salvation God doesn't just drop us. He blesses us instead. The law shows us how to live in that blessing. So your teaching is not of God, you say you are cursed because of false gospel and telling us not to listen to God as God speaks to us is sure as anything false teaching.

 

[RedTent]

I have spent much time on here uplifting the 7th day Sabbath and the commandments of God. would it shock you to know that I actually believe that the law on stone is done away with when we come to Christ by Faith?

YES!!! If the Holy Spirit leads us to the law so we can understand it, and we have a triune God so Christ and the HS speak with one voice, it would shock me to hear you say this for much of what you say comes straight from scripture. The law on stone was put inside the arc of the covenant, the heart of where God was and we are to understand that through the HS and understand it beyond the physical.

 

[Linda70]

RedTent....

What part of Galatians 3:24-25 do you not understand?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Christ came to affirm the law and thereby to make men see their sin and need of salvation. The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to the Savior. By exalting the requirements of the law and by showing men that the law requires even perfection of one’s thoughts and heart attitude, Christ made men see that they could not possibly attain righteousness through the law.

RedTent, are you still "under a schoolmaster"?

 

[gotime]

YES!!! If the Holy Spirit leads us to the law so we can understand it, and we have a triune God so Christ and the HS speak with one voice, it would shock me to hear you say this for much of what you say comes straight from scripture. The law on stone was put inside the arc of the covenant, the heart of where God was and we are to understand that through the HS and understand it beyond the physical.

That's the point the law on stone was physical and could not save. but the spiritual application by faith in Christ through the Holy Spirit in our hearts makes the law of liberty.

The sacrificial system = Christ
The tabernacle = Christ and the heavenly temple.
The priesthood = Christ our high priest.
The 10 commandments = Christ is the law.

Therefore in Christ we are pardoned from sin in his sacrifice for us on our behalf.
In Christ we sit in heavenly places made not with human hands.
In Christ we have an advocate who pleads for us and answers our prayers.
Christ is the law on our hearts.

Jesus kept the 10 commandments while on earth not because he had to, but because he is the 10 commandments in the flesh, It is who He is.

Just as Moses brought the 10 commandments down from the mount and because of Israels sin Moses broke them.

So Jesus came down from heaven and because of our sin He gave his own body to be broken.

Keeping the law is not about working hard or knowing the law. Keeping the law is about faith in Jesus and knowing Jesus.

He is the more glorious one. Thus when He comes into our hearts and we die and He lives we will Automatically keep the whole law, because Christ is the law.

Not the law of stone but the law in flesh even Jesus Christ. In revelation when the throne is seen It is not the 10 commandments on stone that is seen in the midst but:

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Jesus is the true testimony The 10 commandments in living form, the character of God.

If we should keep the law perfectly then we must let Jesus in our heart. This will result in keeping all 10 not only on the outside but on the inside because Christ is in us the hope of glory.

 

[Brother_Don]

when i first came to Christ, i was told just concentrate on the Gospels, don't worry about the OT, i'll get confused. i'm glad i was more interested in Gods word, than just the Gospels. hmmm.

 

[Brother_Don]

Law Keepers do carry a big sword!

 

[chubbena]

It wasn't too many years ago that for most people Sabbath wasn't an issue at all. Really, the issue isn't about Saturday or Sunday worship, what started it being an issue was looking at all our worship to be sure it was directed by scripture or by men's ideas. Now, all our traditions are being questioned, as more and more people are understanding how the Old Testament applies to Christ. No one read the Old Testament with any idea of checking what Christ fulfilled of such as the sacrifices, or the high priest, checking to see how it relates to how Christ made it. We took it for granted that the feasts were cancelled, never checking scripture to find out. Our churches said so, that was enough no matter what scripture said.

There is a new day in the churches, as profound as the Protestant Revolution, and just as that made even enemies, so this revolution is also.

The revolution is still on but it's probably the time of the end for many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied. Though the internet many have found they are not alone.