This is truly ironic. The one claiming that we are under the law is saying that the one who says we are not under the law that he is claiming more perfection!
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This is truly ironic. The one claiming that we are under the law is saying that the one who says we are not under the law that he is claiming more perfection!
If you don't want to take the time and actually look up and quote what God said when He gave the Law, then there isn't a whole lot we can talk about in this particular discussion.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
The reason why the scriptures say love covers a multitude of sins is because if you truly live in love like our Lord commanded:
Love the Lord you God with all your heart, soul, and mind, love your neighbor as yourself, and love your enemy;
then there will be no place in your heart to want to covet, murder, lie, steal, and so forth.
Nobody is perfect and we will back slide, but there is a big difference between one who backslides here and there and repents and asks forgiveness of it. And from some one who lives willfully in their sin, walking in darkness, because they let that sin control them. Feeding themselves with lies like saying it is now acceptable, I don't need to change, all my sins have been justified and forgiven even though I have not asked for forgiveness of them, or repented because there is no need.
I'm not talking about the nation as a whole, but individuals, who did in fact follow the Law. Even if they broke the laws, God still provided atonement, and their pursuit of that showed they were obedient to the law.
Our imperfection is the very reason that God released us from the Law of Sin and Death. And those that don't think the Law of Moses is the Law of Sin and Death - Read it: The law gives power to sin and what was the frequently prescribed punishment - Death (often through stoning).
I'm not ignoring what Paul said. In fact, I've agreed that what Paul said was good and necessary. And I've addressed the proper context in which He spoke. So far, you've only given 1 verse about the Law, and it was on your terms. You've yet to present any other scriptures about when God gave the Law.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You know I am getting sick of this stupid argument.
Can yuo please show me where I )or anyone) has said it is ok to sin?
How in Gods name is showing love to others, Focusing on God. And doing the things which bring glory to him in ALL areas of our life saying it is ok to sin?
where do you people get this crap? Forgive me if I am upset. But satan has you guys so convinced we just want to go around living in sin so you can keep your legalistic self deceived righteousness, You can not hear a thing anyone says.
then you are in deep trouble. And again have decieved yourself, you need to stop trying to excuse your own sin as not willful. News flash, ALL SIN IS WILLFUL, unless it is done in ignorance. As Paul said, It comes from the flesh.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
so were they obedient to the law because they had the law on their mind 24/7. Or because they were focused on loving others and God?
Are you saying that we cannot trust the Lord to honor a covenant that is a legal agreement that cannot be broken? A testament, like a will and testament can have a new testament written and it is the one to go by, but a covenant always is in effect. The new covenant was superior to the old one, it made some of the old covenant not needed any more because the terms were better, but if God can cancel a promise to us we are in deep deep trouble.psychomom;1618816[COLOR=#000080 said:
The basic premise of the Mosaic Covenant is that when we obey law our life is blessed, and when we don't our life isn't blessed at all. We see that lived out, if we are liars, thieves, haters of others, we have a hard life and if we are kind and considerate of others our life works out easier.
The basic premise of the new covenant is the through the blood of Christ our sins are forgiven and we have salvation. There are other improvements the new covenant brings, too.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
no, you twisted his words. and made him say something else.
Paul was talking to you and those like you. you just do not want to hear it.
P
psychomom
Guest
again, i get the impression you perceive a threat where there is a Promise.
if we love the Lord....why do we love Him?
because He first loved us!
(the Gospel!)so because He loved us, we will keep His commands.
it's a Promise. ♥
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Exactly we have been released from the obligation of the law. The animal sacrifices, do to our Lord became our sacrifice once and for all, and we do not have to face the curses one was to receive for sin; stoning, death, and so on....
Because our Lord took the punishment for us, but there are some out there that believe death should be dealt to one who sins.
Where does that fit in love, and forgiveness...It doesn't.
Oh wait a minute I am following love and forgiveness...I am following commands / laws from our Lord.
Because our Lord took the punishment for us, but there are some out there that believe death should be dealt to one who sins.
Where does that fit in love, and forgiveness...It doesn't.
Oh wait a minute I am following love and forgiveness...I am following commands / laws from our Lord.
Because they were focused on God, which is what all of us should do. And because of that we are able to know what the law says and to apply it to our lives.
Well, who really knows, unless you take the time to look at God's motivation and plan when He gave the Law?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
No I don't perceive anything our Lord says as a threat. I perceive everything He says as promises.
If He says He loves us, and by showing our love for Him we keep His commandments. That is a promise made.
If He says if you live in willful sin, you will die in your sins by facing fiery indignation. That is a promise too.
If He says He loves us, and by showing our love for Him we keep His commandments. That is a promise made.
If He says if you live in willful sin, you will die in your sins by facing fiery indignation. That is a promise too.
again, i get the impression you perceive a threat where there is a Promise.
if we love the Lord....why do we love Him?
because He first loved us!
so because He loved us, we will keep His commands.
it's a Promise. ♥
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. If we are focused on God. we do not NEED to know what the law says.
that is where we are in opposition. You think you NEED the law to make you righteous. (morally God)
I think I need to know GOD to make me morally good.
oh and PS.. Yes the law helps me to know God. It brought me to him. That is why it is called a schoolmaster.
Now that the schoolmaster has done its job, I no longer need the law. I ALREADY KNOW IT, AND WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT ME.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
1 john 2: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him
Concerning willful habitual sin
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
Concerning those who have been born again through faith in Christ:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
if you will not listen to the Apostle John, You will not listen to anyone
If you truly lived with a heart so pure as you are speaking of and above all knowledge of sin or ever any fleshly desires, then why should you object to learning how that is carried out in our life here? I should think that if we are so pure that we never have a mean thought of others, or envy anyone else, etc. that we wouldn't object to hearing that we aren't to do those things but welcome those instructions.
P
psychomom
Guest
have you read the Psalms?
full of descriptions and mourning that the world is full of people who are liars, thieves, and haters of others who aren't having a hard life, but rather a very 'good' one, as the world perceives it.
and believers the world over who are kind and considerate who are persecuted and put to death for their faith in the Lord.
the commands of the Mosaic covenant is an 'if...then' covenant. (conditional)
if you obey ALL THESE things, you will be blessed.
if you disobey, you will be cursed.
the commands of the New Covenant are 'because...therefore' commands. (unconditional)
because God in Christ has loved us and reconciled us to Himself,
therefore we can obey those commands to love one another.
i can only suggest you may not be understanding what Hebrews says about these two Covenants.