Bewitching Believers Through the Hebrew Roots Movement

[BradC]

don't derail this thread BradC.

Then don't leaven believers with your doctrine and hatred for Israel and the Jews. You of all people have no room to speak on these matters when you reject the mercy of God toward these Hebrew Jews. Your mind is continually occupied with evil toward them and you have no repentance in your heart about it. God's thoughts toward them are thoughts of peace not evil to give them an expected end of restoration. You fail to see the goodness of God and what that goodness can do in leading them to repentance. You only see the scriptures you want applied and the rest you ignore or criticize. That at best makes you fraudulent in your premise and conception of who God is toward the nation and people of Israel and what he has purposed to do in himself with those who he has called.

 

[Karraster]

don't derail this thread Red.

hmmmmm, you mean like you do to anybody you don't agree with? lol

 

[Karraster]

[h=3]Psalm 51:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[Karraster]

[h=3]Proverbs 1-9:18[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

[SUP]2 [/SUP]To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

[SUP]3 [/SUP]To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

 

[posthuman]

a wild olive branch grafted onto a cultivated olive tree -
bears wild olives, not cultivated ones.

when you see dark clouds approaching, it's probably going to rain, right??

 

[crossnote]

Then don't leaven believers with your doctrine and hatred for Israel and the Jews. You of all people have no room to speak on these matters when you reject the mercy of God toward these Hebrew Jews. Your mind is continually occupied with evil toward them and you have no repentance in your heart about it. God's thoughts toward them are thoughts of peace not evil to give them an expected end of restoration. You fail to see the goodness of God and what that goodness can do in leading them to repentance. You only see the scriptures you want applied and the rest you ignore or criticize. That at best makes you fraudulent in your premise and conception of who God is toward the nation and people of Israel and what he has purposed to do in himself with those who he has called.

You're comparing apples and artichokes. It's one thing to have a love for the Jewish people and pray for their salvation and also despise the "Judaizing" of our faith. Because one holds to the latter doesn't mean one is anti Semitic nor holds to the former.
Reread Telchin's comments they were great and he is a Jewish believer.

 

[zone]

You're comparing apples and artichokes. It's one thing to have a love for the Jewish people and pray for their salvation and also despise the "Judaizing" of our faith.

it's not even jews doing it - it's "others".
i shudder to think what Paul would say were he to send a new letter (since these ppl won't read Galatians)

 

[chubbena]

The brush is broad and the paint is black.
Not until the first 39 books of the Bible are burnt to ashes and people of all languages start calling the Savior by His English name would you be satisfied, eh?

 

[zone]

The brush is broad and the paint is black.
Not until the first 39 books of the Bible are burnt to ashes and people of all languages start calling the Savior by His English name would you be satisfied, eh?

wanna talk Law? OT?
start a thread.

i will show you CHRIST throughout.

Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, “ See — it is written about Me in the volume of the scroll — I have come to do Your will, God! ”

 

[chubbena]

Let me help you out loud here.
The Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision and law must be accounted as filth.
Christians must carry out the following remedial actions:

1. for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2. for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3. for their religious writings to be taken away;
4. for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5. for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6. for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7. for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.

Very pro Paul.

 

[Braveheartgal]

Yes zone, I have heard so many times people who think that God is "done" with Israel. How Ludicrous! Nothing could be farther from the truth. The WHOLE BIBLE is full of passages telling Israel how much God loves her. When Jesus came to be born as a man, and then died on the cross, the invitation EXTENDED to ALL people.. the Bible says that so many times SO many times. over and over again...."all have sinned", Jews and Gentiles alike we all have "turned astray, after our own way". It's really not so hard to figure out. I just don't understand why people don't get it. It baffles me to no end!! I just want to know why?? lol oh well...whatever. I read the Bible, I know what it says...

Then don't leaven believers with your doctrine and hatred for Israel and the Jews. You of all people have no room to speak on these matters when you reject the mercy of God toward these Hebrew Jews. Your mind is continually occupied with evil toward them and you have no repentance in your heart about it. God's thoughts toward them are thoughts of peace not evil to give them an expected end of restoration. You fail to see the goodness of God and what that goodness can do in leading them to repentance. You only see the scriptures you want applied and the rest you ignore or criticize. That at best makes you fraudulent in your premise and conception of who God is toward the nation and people of Israel and what he has purposed to do in himself with those who he has called.

LOL Red.
i wondered how long you'd take to show up.
perhaps our Jewish-Christian friend should know what you really believe about "her people":

...

"Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC"

...

Braveheartgal, the above is BradC's personal interpretation of the Dispensational lunacy concerning "your people" (who he thinks are ancient Israel); and who he says were never promised any of the blessing of the CHURCH of Jesus Christ.

da jews get a carnal earthly kingdom; while da Mystery Gentile Church Age Parenthesis Gap Thing people get a heavenly kingdom

he is of the skool that declares an eternal distinction of jews and gentiles...you know: per: Darby the antisemite:

"The Jewish nation is never to enter the Church" - J.N. Darby

~

perfectly Biblical (not)

Brad, as for regeneration & baptism, i'm sorry you don't believe Jesus Christ or the apostles who said BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION of SINS, and you will receive the Holy Spirit.

course, in the Mystery Grace Age Gap Church; baptism nor repentance are required.
ya jes say a little prayer and little jesus who isn't King yet reigns in your little heart.
have a nice day Red33

 

[Braveheartgal]

Chubbena, sounds like you daily read "Mein Kampf" as your daily "bible" reading along with the philosophies and "teachings" of Queen Isabella of Spain in 1492....a Nazi wanna-be you are...so ridiculous! Jesus is Jew you fool!

Let me help you out loud here.
The Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision and law must be accounted as filth.
Christians must carry out the following remedial actions:

1. for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2. for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3. for their religious writings to be taken away;
4. for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5. for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6. for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7. for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.

Very pro Paul.

 

[zone]

Messianic Hebrew Roots Cult 2005-2007, details of their worship

Here is how a typical worship meeting (Friday Evenings at Sunset) would be, at least in our little group of around ten people.

A and the others would set the table (I would help sometimes), and she would light Shabbat Candles. Remember she was mixing Orthodox Judaism with her form of “Christianity”.

She would wear a head covering and all the men and boys would have to wear kippas/yamulkas. Some of the men even wore Tefillum. Sorry for my misspelling of Jewish words. They loved the Hebrew Language. If they could sing in Hebrew (which I DO NOT know) they would DO so. They were OBSESSED with Israel, Hebrew, and anything Jewish in fact, but of course they mixed their belief in “Yashua” (Jesus, but they say the name “Jesus” is pagan, so they only use the Hebrew form). They consider the Torah to be superior to the New Testament too. They are focused on the First Five Books of Moses. In fact they re-read the Law over and over again. They believe you are not “saved” unless you believe in “Yashaua” and KEEP THE MOSAIC LAWS and Jewish Feasts and Sabbath and keep Kosher....

- yarngalus | This WordPress.com site is the bee's knees

 

[lav]

oh my gosh Braveheart these boards are CRAZY sometimes !


not to mention chat

 

[Angela53510]

When I was taking Hebrew in a Baptist Seminary, we had to visit a Jewish church (of any of the streams of Judiasm) and write a report on it. We were NOT allowed to visit a Messianic church, because in the words of the professor, "It is made up of Gentiles, not Jews, and we want to see how real Jews worship."

I chose an Orthodox Jewish Synagogue, and although the Old Testament was the same, it was a very different form of worship than any Messianic or Christian church I have ever been too. I learned that true Judaism is a very different religion than Christianity.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is for people who are not walking in the joy of the salvation Jesus brings, or they would not be seeking the bondage that following the laws of the Old Testament, like clothing, feasts and festivals that Christ fulfilled.

 

[zone]

Other than a supposed superior take on the language of the New Testament as a main pillar in the Hebrew Roots Movement, (see Hebrew Roots Movement – Messin’ With the Word) another self-touted pillar in the HRM is their claim that they have purified their form of worship to be free from all pagan influence. They make much of the pagan practices they say have permeated the Church, and how we, as believers, should determine to set ourselves apart from such practices.

Yet significant portions of HRM teachings and doctrines come from the “wisdom and insight” gleaned from the aforementioned Jewish Sages and Scholars, with their “wisdom and insight” coming from the Talmud, which in turn is influenced by Kabbalistic teachings, which are rooted in the Occult.

From an Ed Nelson (a Hebrew Roots Movement apologist) review of a book by Brad Young, “Meet the Rabbis: Rabbinic Thought and the Teachings of Jesus” (entire review can be read HERE):

Brad H. Young is well-known for his scholarly research on the life of Jesus and his contributions to the Jewish-Christian dialogue. Author of “Jesus the Jewish Theologian” and “Paul the Jewish Theologian”, in his latest book, “Meet the Rabbis: Rabbinic Thought and the Teachings of Jesus”, he continues to illustrate the place and value of rabbinic teachings for understanding the New Testament and the historical Jesus.

. . . The New Testament documents and the historical Jesus are verifiably Hebraic in origin and mission, Young says. In this vein, he takes a pre-first century and first century approach within the rabbinic traditions of Jewish faith to explain the New Testament and present the historical Jesus.

“I want readers to begin with what they know about the teachings of Jesus,” Young says, “and by associative method, to introduce them to the world of Jewish Torah learning.” His enthusiasm spills, “I believe that Christians particularly will enjoy studying the Talmud because ancient Judaism is the root that nourishes the branch.”

In reality, it is Jesus who is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last . . . the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star. (See Revelation 22:12-16) Our nourishment comes from Jesus Christ, who purchased us at great cost at the Cross.

Doublemindedness in the Hebrew Roots Movement – The Use of Kabbalah and Gematria
Doublemindedness in the Hebrew Roots Movement – The Use of Kabbalah and Gematria | Joyfully Growing in Grace

 

[zone]

When I was taking Hebrew in a Baptist Seminary, we had to visit a Jewish church (of any of the streams of Judiasm) and write a report on it. We were NOT allowed to visit a Messianic church, because in the words of the professor, "It is made up of Gentiles, not Jews, and we want to see how real Jews worship."

I chose an Orthodox Jewish Synagogue, and although the Old Testament was the same, it was a very different form of worship than any Messianic or Christian church I have ever been too. I learned that true Judaism is a very different religion than Christianity.

The Hebrew Roots Movement is for people who are not walking in the joy of the salvation Jesus brings, or they would not be seeking the bondage that following the laws of the Old Testament, like clothing, feasts and festivals that Christ fulfilled.

i think this says it all Ang.

 

[Braveheartgal]

BradC how on Earth are you coming to the belief that she hates Jews and Israel? It's actually quite to the contrary. and she IS a Jew. She is trying to bring truth to all the skewed viewpoints and bring clarity. she loves Jews and Gentiles, but the Bible is the truth we need to cling to, not our own thoughts, not our own philosophies, not other men's words, ONLY the Words of the Bible. How can she hate what she is? This is just proof of what she is saying is true, that no one reads anything and just wants to hear the sound of their own voice, or words on a page as it were. Get a clue would ya?

Let me help you out loud here.
The Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision and law must be accounted as filth.
Christians must carry out the following remedial actions:

1. for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2. for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3. for their religious writings to be taken away;
4. for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5. for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6. for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7. for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.

Very pro Paul.

Then don't leaven believers with your doctrine and hatred for Israel and the Jews. You of all people have no room to speak on these matters when you reject the mercy of God toward these Hebrew Jews. Your mind is continually occupied with evil toward them and you have no repentance in your heart about it. God's thoughts toward them are thoughts of peace not evil to give them an expected end of restoration. You fail to see the goodness of God and what that goodness can do in leading them to repentance. You only see the scriptures you want applied and the rest you ignore or criticize. That at best makes you fraudulent in your premise and conception of who God is toward the nation and people of Israel and what he has purposed to do in himself with those who he has called.

 

[Braveheartgal]

[correction, there was a quote that didn't belong in the previous post I made. here is the correction]:
BradC how on Earth are you coming to the belief that ZONE hates Jews and Israel? It's actually quite to the contrary. and she IS a Jew. She is trying to bring truth to all the skewed viewpoints and bring clarity. she loves Jews and Gentiles, but the Bible is the truth we need to cling to, not our own thoughts, not our own philosophies, not other men's words, ONLY the Words of the Bible. How can she hate what she is? This is just proof of what she is saying is true, that no one reads anything and just wants to hear the sound of their own voice, or words on a page as it were. Get a clue would ya?

Then don't leaven believers with your doctrine and hatred for Israel and the Jews. You of all people have no room to speak on these matters when you reject the mercy of God toward these Hebrew Jews. Your mind is continually occupied with evil toward them and you have no repentance in your heart about it. God's thoughts toward them are thoughts of peace not evil to give them an expected end of restoration. You fail to see the goodness of God and what that goodness can do in leading them to repentance. You only see the scriptures you want applied and the rest you ignore or criticize. That at best makes you fraudulent in your premise and conception of who God is toward the nation and people of Israel and what he has purposed to do in himself with those who he has called.

 

[KJV1611]

The Jewish Kabbalist are laughing their heads off at these Hebrew rootists people. I wonder how many Hebrew rootist know that they are being duped into following the Kabbalah.

Kabbalah - All the things God told the Jews to learn from the Egyptians and Babylonians.