Biggest threats to Christianity
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This is an example of how something can be said over and over again until it is accepted as truth even though it is totally false. For instance, the number of people killed in the crusades pales compared to the the Turkish invasion of Europe, the Mongol genocide against the Persians, or the numbers killed in the Soviet Gulag system. Even the Communists in China, who killed 25 million by execution in the first year. Even those actions that were claimed for the cross where mostly political with Christianity being used as a justification.
S
Those that live godly will suffer persecution no matter where they are. But the main reason that the church here in America is not suffering persecution is because it is so religious and has no needs to speak of. They don't have to depend upon God for they have everything. But God has a way. How many of us really live a godly life where we really take up our cross and follow Christ. If we really did that the world would hate us, the religious crowd would despise us and even more than that our own families and friends would turn against us. Do we really hate these things enough to take up our cross and follow Christ. Many teach that following Christ is being led into the prosperity package of a more abundant life.
You won't hear many messages in our land that Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. We want the best of everything and we are going to preach that until we get it and if people don't get it they are told that they did not have enough faith or the right faith. What they do is make prosperity and the best things in life a religion to go after instead of going after Christ. They teach that if prosperity is not on you then you are not Spirit-filled and you have no anointing.
How do they explain that Jesus Christ, as our example, had no place to lay His head / Mt 8:20. Where is the prosperity in that? He said that, 'My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me' / Jn 4:34. Are we going to say that having no place to lay His head was not the will of God for Jesus? We complain if our pillow isn't comfortable enough or if our coffee isn't strong enough. There is nothing wrong with having a comfortable pillow or strong coffee, but it's the complaining. When you tell the prosperity preachers and believers that about Christ they become suspiciously quiet. As the three Hebrew boys were being thrown into the fiery furnace they responded to the king saying, 'If our God delivers us or not we will not bow down and worship your Gods', in other words we refuse to be religious.
You won't hear many messages in our land that Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. We want the best of everything and we are going to preach that until we get it and if people don't get it they are told that they did not have enough faith or the right faith. What they do is make prosperity and the best things in life a religion to go after instead of going after Christ. They teach that if prosperity is not on you then you are not Spirit-filled and you have no anointing.
How do they explain that Jesus Christ, as our example, had no place to lay His head / Mt 8:20. Where is the prosperity in that? He said that, 'My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me' / Jn 4:34. Are we going to say that having no place to lay His head was not the will of God for Jesus? We complain if our pillow isn't comfortable enough or if our coffee isn't strong enough. There is nothing wrong with having a comfortable pillow or strong coffee, but it's the complaining. When you tell the prosperity preachers and believers that about Christ they become suspiciously quiet. As the three Hebrew boys were being thrown into the fiery furnace they responded to the king saying, 'If our God delivers us or not we will not bow down and worship your Gods', in other words we refuse to be religious.
I think google and scientific study have alot in common, both lead you to the conclusions you already have preconceived. Atheisim's god, science, is a straw man. It can not decide if eggs are good for you, how is it going to lead mankind to the truths of our existence and purpose? We are believed to be self deluded and look!!! The emperor has no clothes! 
S
There is nothing logical about taking up your cross and denying yourself. Those that react to the preaching and practice of the cross have not been crucified in their flesh. Those that legislate truth through a spirit of pride despise those that are humble and contrite in their heart and have learned to receive the word in meekness. The world, the religious crowd that is not established in the grace of God and those that are close to you who do not take up their cross will be the ones that will kick up their heels against you and despise you because of Christ. The servant is not greater than His master.
Those that offend you outside the preaching of the Jesus Christ and Him crucified have no fellowship with the Father or with the Son. They will be revealed for who they really are because God will make a show of them openly. When you are offended by the conviction of the truth it is for your edification to build you up in the truth and reveal Christ in you. The offense of the cross is to bring you along to be a perfect and mature man in Christ, while the other offense puts a heavy burden on you to keep you in bondage to your old sin nature and the religious duties of the flesh. I hope you can understand that.
Those that offend you outside the preaching of the Jesus Christ and Him crucified have no fellowship with the Father or with the Son. They will be revealed for who they really are because God will make a show of them openly. When you are offended by the conviction of the truth it is for your edification to build you up in the truth and reveal Christ in you. The offense of the cross is to bring you along to be a perfect and mature man in Christ, while the other offense puts a heavy burden on you to keep you in bondage to your old sin nature and the religious duties of the flesh. I hope you can understand that.
Those that live godly will suffer persecution no matter where they are. But the main reason that the church here in America is not suffering persecution is because it is so religious and has no needs to speak of. They don't have to depend upon God for they have everything. But God has a way. How many of us really live a godly life where we really take up our cross and follow Christ. If we really did that the world would hate us, the religious crowd would despise us and even more than that our own families and friends would turn against us. Do we really hate these things enough to take up our cross and follow Christ. Many teach that following Christ is being led into the prosperity package of a more abundant life.
Is persecution necessary for a church to be healthy and for sanctification to occur? Are we required to be needy and dependent on God for the basics, before sanctification can occur? Is the determining factor for following Christ that the world/liturgical churches/family and friends will hate us? Are we really called to hate enough to take up our cross and follow Christ?
What if:
1.Jesus was simply telling His disciples the risks they would face if they decided to carry out His teachings? They were facing the Pharisees and a hostile government and they were promoting a new philosophy – it was going to be tough road for them – does it have to be a tough road for us? After Christianity was legalized in the Roman Empire, the Christians looked back nostalgically to the martyrs who were killed for their faith – many sought out a tougher life by retreating to the desert and throwing themselves in to thorn bushes, and wearing hair shirts and flogging themselves…….were they misguided? Are we supposed to seek out pain and persecution or was Jesus just telling his disciple was going to happen, rather than what should happen?
2.Are we required to quit our jobs and rely on God to provide for all of our needs? Do we really feel like we have everything that we need? It seems to me that our consumer society is constantly reminding how needy we are and how their products are necessary for our happiness and fulfillment. I bet we feel poorer that any society that has ever existed, even though we are the richest. I think learning to live with less is the lesson for our time, rather than crying out for God to meet more and more of our needs – our ability to determine need from want is broken.
3.Should we preach and witness until people start hating us? Is that the standard we need to meet? We Jesus really telling us that we are not doing enough unless we were despised? Once again, I think Jesus was warning his disciples that there new ideas might frighten people – including their family and friends, but to not worry – the message they were sharing was true, regardless of the rejection they might receive.
4.Was Jesus really telling us to hate or mother and father in order to follow Him effectively? Or was He simply telling them that they had to break away from the ideas that they were raised with? I agree that we are still called to discover the truth of the cross for ourselves, rather than relying on our parent’s ideas.
You won't hear many messages in our land that Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. We want the best of everything and we are going to preach that until we get it and if people don't get it they are told that they did not have enough faith or the right faith. What they do is make prosperity and the best things in life a religion to go after instead of going after Christ. They teach that if prosperity is not on you then you are not Spirit-filled and you have no anointing.
I agree that the propriety gospel is anti-Christian, not to mention an oxymoron. However, what did Jesus mean when He talked about coming with a sword? Seems to me He was saying that His ideas about love were radical and uncomfortable – He was pantsing the narcissists, pointing out the naked Emperor, and challenging the status quo. No longer is it acceptable to drift through life trying not to rock the boat – we are called to be authentic and to love radically.
How do they explain that Jesus Christ, as our example, had no place to lay His head / Mt 8:20. Where is the prosperity in that? He said that, 'My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me' / Jn 4:34. Are we going to say that having no place to lay His head was not the will of God for Jesus? We complain if our pillow isn't comfortable enough or if our coffee isn't strong enough. There is nothing wrong with having a comfortable pillow or strong coffee, but it's the complaining. When you tell the prosperity preachers and believers that about Christ they become suspiciously quiet. As the three Hebrew boys were being thrown into the fiery furnace they responded to the king saying, 'If our God delivers us or not we will not bow down and worship your Gods', in other words we refuse to be religious.
[FONT="]I agree.[/FONT]
Is persecution necessary for a church to be healthy and for sanctification to occur? Are we required to be needy and dependent on God for the basics, before sanctification can occur? Is the determining factor for following Christ that the world/liturgical churches/family and friends will hate us? Are we really called to hate enough to take up our cross and follow Christ?
What if:
1.Jesus was simply telling His disciples the risks they would face if they decided to carry out His teachings? They were facing the Pharisees and a hostile government and they were promoting a new philosophy – it was going to be tough road for them – does it have to be a tough road for us? After Christianity was legalized in the Roman Empire, the Christians looked back nostalgically to the martyrs who were killed for their faith – many sought out a tougher life by retreating to the desert and throwing themselves in to thorn bushes, and wearing hair shirts and flogging themselves…….were they misguided? Are we supposed to seek out pain and persecution or was Jesus just telling his disciple was going to happen, rather than what should happen?
2.Are we required to quit our jobs and rely on God to provide for all of our needs? Do we really feel like we have everything that we need? It seems to me that our consumer society is constantly reminding how needy we are and how their products are necessary for our happiness and fulfillment. I bet we feel poorer that any society that has ever existed, even though we are the richest. I think learning to live with less is the lesson for our time, rather than crying out for God to meet more and more of our needs – our ability to determine need from want is broken.
3.Should we preach and witness until people start hating us? Is that the standard we need to meet? We Jesus really telling us that we are not doing enough unless we were despised? Once again, I think Jesus was warning his disciples that there new ideas might frighten people – including their family and friends, but to not worry – the message they were sharing was true, regardless of the rejection they might receive.
4.Was Jesus really telling us to hate or mother and father in order to follow Him effectively? Or was He simply telling them that they had to break away from the ideas that they were raised with? I agree that we are still called to discover the truth of the cross for ourselves, rather than relying on our parent’s ideas.
You won't hear many messages in our land that Christ did not come to bring peace but a sword. We want the best of everything and we are going to preach that until we get it and if people don't get it they are told that they did not have enough faith or the right faith. What they do is make prosperity and the best things in life a religion to go after instead of going after Christ. They teach that if prosperity is not on you then you are not Spirit-filled and you have no anointing.
I agree that the propriety gospel is anti-Christian, not to mention an oxymoron. However, what did Jesus mean when He talked about coming with a sword? Seems to me He was saying that His ideas about love were radical and uncomfortable – He was pantsing the narcissists, pointing out the naked Emperor, and challenging the status quo. No longer is it acceptable to drift through life trying not to rock the boat – we are called to be authentic and to love radically.
How do they explain that Jesus Christ, as our example, had no place to lay His head / Mt 8:20. Where is the prosperity in that? He said that, 'My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me' / Jn 4:34. Are we going to say that having no place to lay His head was not the will of God for Jesus? We complain if our pillow isn't comfortable enough or if our coffee isn't strong enough. There is nothing wrong with having a comfortable pillow or strong coffee, but it's the complaining. When you tell the prosperity preachers and believers that about Christ they become suspiciously quiet. As the three Hebrew boys were being thrown into the fiery furnace they responded to the king saying, 'If our God delivers us or not we will not bow down and worship your Gods', in other words we refuse to be religious.
[FONT="]I agree.[/FONT]
I think Google and scientific study have a lot in common, both lead you to the conclusions you already have preconceived.
You really believe this? Google is supposed to lead you to information you are looking for – like a dictionary it is designed to provide relevant information. Science on the other hand, relies on proving a hypothesis – if it was designed to fulfill the expectations of academics, we would call it magic. You might think science only fulfills preconceived ideas because we only accept hypothesis’ that are supported by observation and repeatable experimentation. History is filled with theories that have been disproven by this method – even long held ideas.
Atheism’s god, science, is a straw man.
Atheism’s god………..ugh. I am pretty sure you do not know what a straw man is. Here’s an example, a Protestant doesn’t like the practice of praying to saints, but he knows that there is no verse in the Bible that prohibits praying to saints so he presents a straw man – Catholics worship Mary – then instead of the Catholic defending the practice of praying to saints, he finds himself having to defend a practice his church doesn’t even teach. I guess science could be used in a straw man argument, but it is not a straw man by itself.
It cannot decide if eggs are good for you, how is it going to lead mankind to the truths of our existence and purpose?
I hope you are simply trying to sound clever……..anyone who is trying to find out if eggs are good OR bad for you is a moron. Eggs are good AND bad for you. The world is simply not as black and white as you are portraying it to be. Science is providing new insights about how our species evolved – I am sorry this is so threatening to you – it certainly doesn’t have to be. As far as purpose for our lives, scientists never claim science has any interest in this topic.
You really believe this? Google is supposed to lead you to information you are looking for – like a dictionary it is designed to provide relevant information. Science on the other hand, relies on proving a hypothesis – if it was designed to fulfill the expectations of academics, we would call it magic. You might think science only fulfills preconceived ideas because we only accept hypothesis’ that are supported by observation and repeatable experimentation. History is filled with theories that have been disproven by this method – even long held ideas.
Atheism’s god, science, is a straw man.
Atheism’s god………..ugh. I am pretty sure you do not know what a straw man is. Here’s an example, a Protestant doesn’t like the practice of praying to saints, but he knows that there is no verse in the Bible that prohibits praying to saints so he presents a straw man – Catholics worship Mary – then instead of the Catholic defending the practice of praying to saints, he finds himself having to defend a practice his church doesn’t even teach. I guess science could be used in a straw man argument, but it is not a straw man by itself.
It cannot decide if eggs are good for you, how is it going to lead mankind to the truths of our existence and purpose?
I hope you are simply trying to sound clever……..anyone who is trying to find out if eggs are good OR bad for you is a moron. Eggs are good AND bad for you. The world is simply not as black and white as you are portraying it to be. Science is providing new insights about how our species evolved – I am sorry this is so threatening to you – it certainly doesn’t have to be. As far as purpose for our lives, scientists never claim science has any interest in this topic.
But that begs the question... so if you're preaching what you perceive to be true and everyone hates you, then you must be really preaching the truth! I mean, just look at miktre and cup! So by that logic, what they are preaching must be true because people are offended by what they say!
Absolutely!
Absolutely!
There is nothing logical about taking up your cross and denying yourself.
Actually, there is a certain logic in not being narcissistic and loving others.
Those that react to the preaching and practice of the cross have not been crucified in their flesh.
It depends on how the preaching and practice of the cross is carried out. I am a Christian who reacts to people who confuse the preaching and practice of the cross with indoctrinating me with their own narrow understanding of the Bible……or skewed, hate-filled speeches about different groups of people they disagree with. Conversely, I embrace people who preach and practice the cross by loving God, themselves, and their neighbors. I like to see people loving others into the Kingdom, rather than attempting to assault them and crush them like a grape.
Those that legislate ‘truth’ through a spirit of pride despise those that are humble and contrite in their heart and have learned to receive the word in meekness.
Indeed. Unfortunately, I’ve seen far more Christians fall into this trap than non-Christians.
The world, the religious crowd that is not established in the grace of God and those that are close to you who do not take up their cross will be the ones that will kick up their heels against you and despise you because of Christ. The servant is not greater than His master.
Depending on the level of your piety and socially odd behavior, all people may look for the emergency exit every time you approach them.
Those that offend you outside the preaching of the Jesus Christ and Him crucified have no fellowship with the Father or with the Son.
Talk about a generalization…..
They will be revealed for who they really are because God will make a show of them openly.
Is this something to celebrate? It sounds like I should be pumping my fights and yelling out in vindication “YES!”
If this is the way it is going to happen, our sanctification worked through us by Christ will have been finished and we will respond with love, mercy, and forgiveness.
When you are offended by the conviction of the truth it is for your edification to build you up in the truth and reveal Christ in you.
Speak the truth in love. Do not create a stumbling block for people by using the truth as a weapon. The only time love is offensive is when it is being encountered by a narcissist. Pride is offended by truth and love. Unfortunately, narcissism is in the church and outside the church.
However, everyone is offended when the true is delivered in a mocking, scoffing, dismissing, attacking, indoctrinating, manner, which is always somehow, defended by the jerky Christian engaged in the behavior, with claims that he is actually ‘loving’ the person he is beating into the ground by telling how to be saved. “What is more important”, he cries out, protecting someone’s feelings from the truth or allowing them to spend eternity in hell? Everyone sees this for what it is of course, except the misguided, witnessing Christian…..
The offense of the cross is to bring you along to be a perfect and mature man in Christ, while the other offense puts a heavy burden on you to keep you in bondage to your old sin nature and the religious duties of the flesh. I hope you can understand that.
You sure are making this tough. Being a mature Christian means loving in all circumstances and teaching others to follow Christ by loving God, themselves and their neighbors. Why do you feel the need to be so dramatic? Offending, kicking up your heel, heavy burdens……how ironic it is that Fundamentalists talk so much about simplifying gospel – rather than going through a bunch of meaningless ritual.
Actually, there is a certain logic in not being narcissistic and loving others.
Those that react to the preaching and practice of the cross have not been crucified in their flesh.
It depends on how the preaching and practice of the cross is carried out. I am a Christian who reacts to people who confuse the preaching and practice of the cross with indoctrinating me with their own narrow understanding of the Bible……or skewed, hate-filled speeches about different groups of people they disagree with. Conversely, I embrace people who preach and practice the cross by loving God, themselves, and their neighbors. I like to see people loving others into the Kingdom, rather than attempting to assault them and crush them like a grape.
Those that legislate ‘truth’ through a spirit of pride despise those that are humble and contrite in their heart and have learned to receive the word in meekness.
Indeed. Unfortunately, I’ve seen far more Christians fall into this trap than non-Christians.
The world, the religious crowd that is not established in the grace of God and those that are close to you who do not take up their cross will be the ones that will kick up their heels against you and despise you because of Christ. The servant is not greater than His master.
Depending on the level of your piety and socially odd behavior, all people may look for the emergency exit every time you approach them.
Those that offend you outside the preaching of the Jesus Christ and Him crucified have no fellowship with the Father or with the Son.
Talk about a generalization…..
They will be revealed for who they really are because God will make a show of them openly.
Is this something to celebrate? It sounds like I should be pumping my fights and yelling out in vindication “YES!”
If this is the way it is going to happen, our sanctification worked through us by Christ will have been finished and we will respond with love, mercy, and forgiveness.
When you are offended by the conviction of the truth it is for your edification to build you up in the truth and reveal Christ in you.
Speak the truth in love. Do not create a stumbling block for people by using the truth as a weapon. The only time love is offensive is when it is being encountered by a narcissist. Pride is offended by truth and love. Unfortunately, narcissism is in the church and outside the church.
However, everyone is offended when the true is delivered in a mocking, scoffing, dismissing, attacking, indoctrinating, manner, which is always somehow, defended by the jerky Christian engaged in the behavior, with claims that he is actually ‘loving’ the person he is beating into the ground by telling how to be saved. “What is more important”, he cries out, protecting someone’s feelings from the truth or allowing them to spend eternity in hell? Everyone sees this for what it is of course, except the misguided, witnessing Christian…..
The offense of the cross is to bring you along to be a perfect and mature man in Christ, while the other offense puts a heavy burden on you to keep you in bondage to your old sin nature and the religious duties of the flesh. I hope you can understand that.
You sure are making this tough. Being a mature Christian means loving in all circumstances and teaching others to follow Christ by loving God, themselves and their neighbors. Why do you feel the need to be so dramatic? Offending, kicking up your heel, heavy burdens……how ironic it is that Fundamentalists talk so much about simplifying gospel – rather than going through a bunch of meaningless ritual.
I don't believe christians in china pray for americans to be persecuted for one minute, if they do they have the wrong spirit. Because persecution is neither necessary nor good.
Maybe it is the Chinese version of the story my parents always told me about how lucky I was when I was a kid and would refuse to finish my dinner, about all the children in China that were starving……
Maybe it is the Chinese version of the story my parents always told me about how lucky I was when I was a kid and would refuse to finish my dinner, about all the children in China that were starving……