Birth Control...thoughts?

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Leilaii425 said:
People talk a big game about not taking birth control because its supposedly a sin, and why would you purposely stop having children when thats your god given ability. What about when your pregnant with child number 8 or 9, Your husbands working three jobs just to support all of you, you have 8 kids under the age of 8
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That will not happen if you know just a little bit about nursing. Got a great source on that too, go figure... it's Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing by Kippley :)
Besides, there are birth control available that are not abortive (condom), so when you're in your fertile days, you can use that.
 
iraasuup said:
A dutch company??
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Right, Dutch, because we live in the Netherlands :p
Surely, the working of the birth controls don't differ that much around the world, it lines up completely with the information you can get from research. If you will take a look at the research by Randy Alcorn, you will learn that it is just facts you get. If you don't like the biblical teaching in it, you just leave that part out.

Since when are non christian doctors always absolutely objective and not influenced by other (non christian, obviously) resources? Dream on, girl.
 
Well, yes actually they are deisgned differently and made with different ingredents, depending on where in the world you live.

I have seen the Randy Alcorn teaching, and I never said I didn't agree with biblical teachings. You are simply assuming that, and it's not true. I do however, think he has taken many of them out of context to justify his legalistic standpoint on the matter. It's like throwing a guilt-trip on people, forcing them to believe what he has personal convictions with. I don't buy into teaching like that. I search things out for myself!

My point about doctors, was more that Christian Doctors are MORE LIKELY to be influenced by moral standpoints, more so than non-christian Doctors. If you go back and actually read my post, you will see I said 'I have no problem with christian doctors'. I simply like to go to a physician who isn't afraid to arm me with ALL the facts, and not leave out information, because they personally have moral conviction/issue about it.

I also know my own present situation and my limitations. I know right now (after 5 years of marriage) as much as I'd like to have children one day, I'm not ready for them yet, nor am I in a position to provide for them all that they would need. I believe that makes me responsible. I am waiting until I am better equipped financially, emotionally, spiritually etc before I choose to make a decision that will alter THE REST OF MY LIFE!

Children aren't like toys. You can't just put them up on a shelf when you're done playing with them, or because you're frustrated. They are a lifelong commitment, and ultimately YOU AS A PARENT, are responsible for how they turn out. That's a big call. Sure, they might be cute, and people go all ga ga over them, but the reality is, they are a massive commitment and responsibility,that you will have for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. So, sorry if I take this seriously, I don't think it's a decision to be made lightly.

I think there are many factors that need to be in place within your marriage relationship, before couples should even consider having children. As I mentioned earlier sex was not designed soley for reproduction purposes, it has a far more intimate design behind it.

So believe what you want, but don't profess to have knowledge that clearly surpasses you. Please don't come here telling people that their choices on this matter are unbiblical, or accusing them of not believing the biblical teaching (as you did with me), because that's not cool.

Let's simply agree to disagree okay?
 
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I just wanted to share a recient study. It is separate from the moral issue. It has been discovered that the artificial hormone in the pill or other types never dissapates or goes away. It has been found in our rivers and lakes and ocean. I am suprized that more has not been said on this subject in the media. One has to wonder the long and the short term impact of such findings and question if this is causing many of the health issues afflicting so many. Just something to consider. God bless, pickles
 
pickles said:
I just wanted to share a recient study. It is separate from the moral issue. It has been discovered that the artificial hormone in the pill or other types never dissapates or goes away. It has been found in our rivers and lakes and ocean. I am suprized that more has not been said on this subject in the media. One has to wonder the long and the short term impact of such findings and question if this is causing many of the health issues afflicting so many. Just something to consider. God bless, pickles
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True, but it is no wonder that the media is kept quiet on this. Wonder why many men are infertile?!
 
Sure, it's common knowledge that if you undertake any form of hormonal treatment for a long period of time, it can be bad for your body.

But that doesn't mean it's a sin. It's just something to consider. If you're worried about it, switch methods, or take a break and use 'barrier methods' for a while. There's lots of alternatives out there.

It's like anything really. Eating chocolate isn't a sin, but if I had copious amounts of it every day, I'm gonna see effects on my body right? It's just common sense!
 
Kaitlin said:
That will not happen if you know just a little bit about nursing. Got a great source on that too, go figure... it's Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing by Kippley :)
Besides, there are birth control available that are not abortive (condom), so when you're in your fertile days, you can use that.
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yeah your right. You should breastfeed your kid till hes 5 years old and only have sex every two or three years so you dont have your kids back to back
 
Birth control kills babies from being made and born. It is a sin. I've done it and I've been forgiven. Best to do things right. Wait till you get married. I didn't know God back then. I learned from the world and the world said it was ok. That was a lie from hell.
 
loveschild said:
Birth control kills babies from being made and born. It is a sin. I've done it and I've been forgiven. Best to do things right. Wait till you get married. I didn't know God back then. I learned from the world and the world said it was ok. That was a lie from hell.
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Um what? Are you implying the birth control is just something people use who choose to engage in promiscuous activity? I agree that waiting until marriage to have sex is 100% the right thing to do, but you make it sound like if a couple is married they shouldn't need/want to use any method of birth control. This simply couldn't be further from the truth. Not every married couple are instantly ready for a child, nor is everyone ABLE to have children. There are loads of things to be considered in making such a decision.

Also, making a general comment like 'birth control kills babies from being made and born' is very brave, when it's entirely inaccurate. Condoms could be classed as a method of birth control (if we want to get technical) and they most definitely aren't abortive in any way whatsoever.

I have presented all the facts, to prove that claims like 'birth control is a sin' are simply not accurate (in my previous posts on this subject). At the end of the day, the way you (or anyone else for that matter) feels on this subject, is all based on a matter of PERSONAL CONVICTION.

Let's not use our personal convictions (as in what's right for us-but not necassarily for others) to misinform everyone. I mean, my personal convictions are that I choose not to drink Alcohol, thats MY CHOICE! It doesn't make it a sin, and for me to declare it as such would be foolish and arrogant. The bible says 'DO NOT BECOME DRUNK...' it doesn't say 'DO NOT EVER CONSUME ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES'.

I am happy for everyone to state their own personal opinions on this matter, I'm not trying to argue, but I don't think it's right to present what are personal convictions as some kind of abominable sin! These threads have been started for people to get answers. Let's all try to remain objective.

I may not agree with you, but I have come to my conclusion based on FACTS, and I have stated these facts on both the threads on this topic that are floating about at the moment. It would be great if everyone who posts from this point on can try and remain objective, and not give incorrect information.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this matter, but I'm not happy to let other people continually post inaccurate information.

I hope that makes sense. Blessings all :)
 
Leilaii425 said:
yeah your right. You should breastfeed your kid till hes 5 years old and only have sex every two or three years so you dont have your kids back to back
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Ah, see, you clearly know nothing at all. But I appreciate you bringing humor into it.

And for you Iraa, sorry, but if anyone is not entirely objective, it would be you. If we who are against those forms for birth controls that are or can be abortive speak from a personal conviction, you certainly do as well. Speaking a lot on this subject does not make you right. Yes, I can agree on not agreeing, but please quit saying that you are the only one bringing facts only, because you too bring a whole lot of your own personal conviction into this, even though you may not realize it.
 
I didn't say I was the only one bringing facts. I never said that at all!

I did say though that I supported my arguments based on facts and research. I never said I was the ONLY one doing so. Please be careful of the assumptions you make.

I understand that those of you who have differing opinions to me, are also presenting research, I don't deny that for a minute. But statements implying that all birth control is sin have been made numerous times.

My whole point is that this kind of statement is simply not true. The bible doesn't say anywhere ' A married woman may never use any means of birth control- and if she does she is going to helll' You find me a scripture that outright says God doesn't allow this, and I might change my mind. I have to go by what the bible says, I simply can't deny it. If the bible did have a commandment from God that didn't allow birth control- well who am I to argue God. My point is IT ISN'T THERE!

I honestly don't care either way that we have differing opinions, everyone needs to do what is right for them. I do however care that people use their own convictions of not wanting to use birth control to tell everyone else it's a sin.

That's my whole point, if you don't like it/agree with it- whatever, that is your choice/right to do so, but it is not anybody's right to say' well all birth control is sin and Christians shouldnt use it' - purely based on their own opinions. If there was biblical teaching that backed up the thought that it is sin- sure I can appreciate that, but since there's not, noone can claim it is 'sin'.

That's all I'm saying :)
 
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I'm sorry you think I'm bringing personal convictions into this. In all honesty I don't have any convictions.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other, use it or dont use it, I really don't care. My opinion is that IT CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE CLAIMED AS A SIN, because there simply is NO biblical evidence to support this notion.

Each to their own! The only reason I supplied facts and resarch was to answer peoples questions and correct the false assumptions other people had made. I don't want people to be misinformed :) if they are accurately given all information - they can make an informed decision for themselves!
 
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So I was thinking about this last night, and I realized I gave a rather cop-out answer on my view about birth control. I'm not quite sure what happened to make me become so much less adament on my views that birth control is wrong. It was not even a year ago when I was of the view that birth control for any reason at all was wrong.

In any case, the fact that I am willing to bend my beliefs just because it isn't easy to have them must mean I've either matured or become too lax. I'm not quite sure which.

So yeah, I was trying to remember why I don't support birth control, and I decided it'd be easier to find what I had to say about it on another site I frequent. Hmm, reading over my responses, I was rather extreme. Sad that I've changed. In any case, here is the abridged version(keep in mind, I am giving you my responses to a conversation on a 6 page long thread, so you are missing some of the background information to why I respond the way I do):

I don't support birth control at all because I see it as a way of humans trying to outsmart God.


In response to the mention of the use of condoms:
What is the difference between aborting every baby God tries to give you and avoiding every baby God tries to give you. The whole reason people get pregnant is because of what they are doing before the pregnancy occurs(not going to use any suggestive words cause I don't wanna offend anyone). God said be fruitful and multiply. He didn't say "Oh, well if you don't want to have a baby but you want to pleasure yourselves and put on some man made protective gear to do it than go right ahead, but make sure you have a baby eventually okay children?" If God meant that he would have said that. He didn't say that.

either way you look at it a baby isn't coming into this world because of someone's selfish desires. If you don't want babies don't have sex. It's as simple as that. God created man and woman to procreate. There is a reason a woman makes eggs and a man makes sperm. If God wanted sex to be a simple pleasure thing that wasn't also necessary for creation of new humans he would have made us asexual. Animals understand the point of procreation. Why can't we?


In response to someone thinking I am against sex for pleasure:
I am not against sexual activity as long as a person realizes the point of it is to reproduce. So one should not wear any type of birth control device or take any type of pill because it goes against nature. If everyone just had sex to pleasure themselves and went on birth control then the world would become extinct, and while that is an extreme view since that is not ever likely to happen it is the principal of the matter. Birth control is above all else a selfish undertaking. Any way you look at it. A person on birth control is saying that their personal happiness is more important than the natural order of thing. The reason sexual immorality is so high nowadays is because of birth control and the belief that sex should be about enjoyment and not procreation. I am sorry but I can simply not support something that supports such a disgusting lifestyle in the mainstream world.


heh heh. I said idiots... Sorry, I was rather abrasive 2 years ago, although it could be argued that plenty of people are indeed idiots nowadays:
That is just it! Please try to understand what I'm saying. I do not believe in marriage as a way to just be happy-go-lucky and have sex as much as you want without having children. That is disgusting and to me very ungodly. Yes you can have pleasure in marriage, but if you don't plan on having children you have no right getting married. End of story.
You see, we are debating this whole birth-control-while-married thing because people in the 21st century are idiots and have no idea what the purpose of marriage is. Hypothetically if everyone decided that, instead of marriage being about reproduction, it would be about love and all the gooey-romantic stuff the human population would cease to exist. And since that is completely unbiblical(be fruitful and multiply scripture) then the community should not do that.
Now you may say "That is just retarded. There will always be people who want to have children" and I agree with you, but it is the principal of the matter. And the principal of the matter is that if hypothetically it could lead to our destruction because it goes against the laws of nature and the Bible than realistically we should not do it.
I've always liked to believe we are smarter than animals, but obviously we are not if we cannot understand the concept of what sex is about but animals can. How many animals do you see mating just for the heck of it? Give me one example of a male animal that mated with a female animal without the intention of creating off-spring. Just give me one good example. One. that's all I'm asking for.

... I do wonder now if there are animals that mate without intentions of reproducing. I probably should have researched that before making that remark.


When asked "Also, what about barren women? If they cannot have children can they not have sex with their husbands? Should they not even get married?":
a barren woman would have no need to take birth control so there is no problem there. Besides Sarah was barren but the point is she desired a child and tried to have one



 
"I am not against sexual activity as long as a person realizes the point of it is to reproduce."

I don't agree that the point of sex is to reproduce. i think that is something that comes along with it though. I believe it's to connect on a more intimate level with your husband and also for enjoyment.

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." Matthew 19:5-6

But yes...they should keep in mind that they could get pregnant.
 
Precisely my point Betsy, that's what I have been saying all this time *facepalm* LOL


The purpose of sex is not soley for reproduction purposes. Praise God we're agreeing on something now LOL!!
 
The purpose of sex is also not solely for pleasure purposes. Hence the reason I don't agree with birth control.
 
Well that makes no logical sense at all.

I mean God designed sex for BOTH intimacy with your spouse, AND reproduction right? So how then does that make the option of birth control wrong?

What if a couple with the view that birth control is wrong get married and then fall pregnant on their honeymoon (highly likely- I know people that has happened to)? They are still getting used to being married and all that entails, and discovering what that 'intimacy' can be like... and don't have chance to let it develop between them because BAM they're pregnant. They have 9 months to prepare themselves. Talk about CRAZY!!

I'm not saying people shouldn't have children right away if thats what they want, nor am I saying the should NEVER have children. I'm saying the decision to have kids is BIG ONE, not to be taken lightly, there's an incredible amount to consider. I've been married 5 years and neither of us are ready for Children yet, I think in all honesty if I fell pregnant now, it would take me a long time to be happy about it. Call me selfish, thats fine, but I think it just means I know my limitations and what's involved in the prospect of having a child. So therefore doing all I can to prevent this life-altering change from happening before we are ready, should make me responsible if anything... or do you just suggest we abstain for the next however many years until we decide we're ready (if we come to that point)?


I also struggle with the concept of honouring God and waiting to get married then being preached at and told the only option you have is condoms! I mean seriously (and I'm gonna be blunt here- cos it's just easier) but who want's to ruin the experience with a piece of latex restricting them, if it's not COMPLETELY necassary? The way condoms are promoted these days almost promote promiscuity eg: practice safe sex, use a condom! Well, sorry that message doesn't apply to me. They were designed as a precaution against STD's I waited until I was married, and I intend to only ever be intimate with my husband for the rest of my life- so why do I need to worry about 'safe sex'? I have no chance of contracting an STD, so why not have the joy of experience the 'intimate activity' THE WAY GOD INTENDED IT TO BE ENJOYED?

Maybe I'm the only one who sees it that way, but I think, well God intended it to be a certain way, so why should I not experience the full potential of his creation if I don't need to?

I hope that hasn't offended anyone, it was just easier to be somewhat blunt with my explanation. I have just never really seen the point. I do know there are times that condoms may be necassary, and I'm in not way against them, but as the age old adage goes 'if it ain't broke- don't fix it'
So in essence, I simply don't see the point, when there are other options available :)

Hope that clarifies things a little more! This has all been very interesting!


I also wonder about
 
iraasuup,

If I am correct, and I am, God gave us a way to control birth. Its called absinance. Its 100% effective everytime. There aren't even side effects to it. Any form of birth control made by mankind is ungodly. This includes "pulling out". In Genesis 38 we read the tale of Onan who used the form of birth control called "pulling out". God took him. The bible called this evil even though the method of birth control was perfectly natural.

So you can do it God's way or not, its your choice but there will be consequences for your actions. I believe one of the consequences mankind is suffering is the number of infertile people there are in this world. If we ask for something enough times there is a chance we will get it. In this case what we got is the inability to have children.
 
She doesnt want to have to abstain for her whole life Rogue. She may or may not ever have children...and right now kids are not an option. So that's not very fair, do you think? Never being able to make love to your partner? I think not.

And as far as the "pulling out method" it's really not successful, at all.
 
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