blasphemy against the Holy Spirit weaponizing the term

[CS1]

Not trying to derail the thread, but I have a question regarding this topic. If anyone wants to answer, I would appreciate that.


I often hear Christians say something along the lines of "If you are worried you blasphemed the Holy Spirit, then you most likely haven't."


Do you agree or disagree with that?

Yes, the I believe those who Blasphemy the Holy Spirit is a sin or understanding. If you have remorse most likely you have not done it.

 

[1ofthem]

I think we need to remember, When jesus did anything, including teach, it was via the HS. He did nothing of his own.

So to deny the gospel and everything the HS does to share or empower the gospel of Jesus CHrist, is to deny the HS. or to "dissent" from the HS.

int its pure form. this in effect is to blaspheme the HS

Jesus said whoever believes is not condemned

Whoever does not believe is condemned already becvause they do not believe

the only unpardonable sin is unbelief, Unbelief is in effect calling the HS a liar. which is effect is blaspheming the HS.

Suicide is a sin, ALl manner of sin will be forgiven men

Unbelievers have an opportunity to become believers. Then they are pardoned, saved, and forgiven.

So how could that be considered an unforgivable sin?

Yeah, I know if you die an unbeliever then you are lost, but as long as someone is alive, they have a chance to get saved and become a believer.

With suicide... if an unbeliever kills themself then I can't see how they would have any chance at salvation after that point.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Unbelievers have an opportunity to become believers. Then they are pardoned, saved, and forgiven.

Yes. Now look at what Jesu said

The people who he spoke to DID give credit to beelzebub and a credit him with the work the HS did

Jesus said they were in DANGER of committing the sin,

They still had hope to repent. That is the warning Jesus gave,

So how could that be considered an unforgivable sin?

Yeah, I know if you die an unbeliever then you are lost, but as long as someone is alive, they have a chance to get saved and become a believer.

With suicide... if an unbeliever kills themself then I can't see how they would have any chance at salvation after that point.

that puts us back under law prety much, It says after one sins, they must do something to get that sin redeemed. Or they will die from that sin.

Thats not eternal life. Thats conditional life.

Again, Jesus told them they were in DANGER OF. He did not call them out and say you have commited this sin now you have no hope of repentance and salvation. He said they were in danger of

for all we know. Saul was there when Jesus said this. We do not know.

Suicide is A sin, like any other sin, The root of the sin is pride. It is putting your needs above the needs of others.

Those sins were paid n the cross.

As jesus said, it is finished.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

On the topic of suicide. Those of us who have kids. If they commit suicide, which of us would tell the state to just take that child and burn them with fire. We want nothing to do with them, they are no longer our children

and which one of us would take that child in Love. Take care of them, give them a proper send off. And treat them like any other child we have.

What saddens me is people think God would just cast that child off because they became so depressed and distraught they did not want to live anymore. And treat them worse than a loving human father would treat their child that came to that point.

 

[1ofthem]

Yes. Now look at what Jesu said

The people who he spoke to DID give credit to beelzebub and a credit him with the work the HS did

Jesus said they were in DANGER of committing the sin,

They still had hope to repent. That is the warning Jesus gave,


that puts us back under law prety much, It says after one sins, they must do something to get that sin redeemed. Or they will die from that sin.

Thats not eternal life. Thats conditional life.

Again, Jesus told them they were in DANGER OF. He did not call them out and say you have commited this sin now you have no hope of repentance and salvation. He said they were in danger of

for all we know. Saul was there when Jesus said this. We do not know.

Suicide is A sin, like any other sin, The root of the sin is pride. It is putting your needs above the needs of others.

Those sins were paid n the cross.

As jesus said, it is finished.

Seems like there is a little more to that, in my opinion. Jesus said if you say anything against the Father or Son it shall be forgiven, but if you say anything against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come.

Exactly, where did Jesus say they were just in danger of committing sin and still had hope if they blasphemed the Holy Ghost?

With suicide:
We all should know that following the Law will not save us. We are only saved through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now if someone is not saved "born again" and commits suicide, then how would they have any chance at forgiveness if they ended their own life?

If someone says they are saved and then commits suicide...How can we even know if they were truly saved? Being saved means putting your faith and trust in the Lord...taking your own life if doing the exact opposite?

So really, I don't know, and I won't speculate on it. That could possibly lead to giving someone a false hope that if they don't want to suffer through life anymore then they can just kill themselves and go on and be with the Lord.

 

[1ofthem]

On the topic of suicide. Those of us who have kids. If they commit suicide, which of us would tell the state to just take that child and burn them with fire. We want nothing to do with them, they are no longer our children

and which one of us would take that child in Love. Take care of them, give them a proper send off. And treat them like any other child we have.

What saddens me is people think God would just cast that child off because they became so depressed and distraught they did not want to live anymore. And treat them worse than a loving human father would treat their child that came to that point.

Again, this sounds like speculation and human reasoning.

I think it's best to not try to justify it in any way. Like I said before, it could give people some hope in suicide. I'm sure that is not God's plan for any of us to just give up and take our own lives so it's best not to try to justify it.

 

[CS1]

Unbelievers have an opportunity to become believers. Then they are pardoned, saved, and forgiven.

So how could that be considered an unforgivable sin?

Yeah, I know if you die an unbeliever then you are lost, but as long as someone is alive, they have a chance to get saved and become a believer.

With suicide... if an unbeliever kills themself then I can't see how they would have any chance at salvation after that point.

I often wonder about that very thing please consider this what the Lord showed me and I am ok with anyone disagreeing but it has helped me with people know who took their life.
I know Christians who took their life and had no signs they were in trouble, came from left field. I prayed Lord how do I have peace with this? The Lord showed me that not everyone who took their life was their doing.

1. some medication they took or were prescribed had a negative reaction
2. some were mental illness
3. some were perceived as such but were not.

this became a great comfort to many people when they started to look into these things they found out how some were on medication that was supposed to be harmless but caused serious deep depression and cognitive issues. Many families suffer from the loss of a loved one who took their life and had no signs and is in great condemnation. I shared this information with some and Thank God it brought comfort to many people and healing.

 

[DavidTree]

Agree 100%. Whatever it is, since it cuts someone off from God, the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit cannot be something a believer can do.

John McArthur is walking the very line of the pharisees of Jesus day in speaking not only against the Holy Spirit but against the very words of Christ as well.

God is no respecter of persons as christians are.

 

[DavidTree]

Seems like there is a little more to that, in my opinion. Jesus said if you say anything against the Father or Son it shall be forgiven, but if you say anything against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come.

Exactly, where did Jesus say they were just in danger of committing sin and still had hope if they blasphemed the Holy Ghost?

With suicide:
We all should know that following the Law will not save us. We are only saved through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now if someone is not saved "born again" and commits suicide, then how would they have any chance at forgiveness if they ended their own life?

If someone says they are saved and then commits suicide...How can we even know if they were truly saved? Being saved means putting your faith and trust in the Lord...taking your own life if doing the exact opposite?

So really, I don't know, and I won't speculate on it. That could possibly lead to giving someone a false hope that if they don't want to suffer through life anymore then they can just kill themselves and go on and be with the Lord.

i used to believe that suicide was a sure ticket to hell until i matured in the Word.
Christ died for every sin - except blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

We do not know the depth of internal suffering of those who end their lives.
ONLY God knows the heart and the depth of their suffering.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

i used to believe that suicide was a sure ticket to hell until i matured in the Word.
Christ died for every sin - except blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

We do not know the depth of internal suffering of those who end their lives.
ONLY God knows the heart and the depth of their suffering.

I feel just before death, a person can realize their mistake and ask God to forgive them before they die. Those who are tormented through mental illness, I believe God see's past their confusion. But for those doing it because the market crashed and they lost their money, or they were facing crimes and rebelled against punishment, and other circumstances along same lines, even if they professed to be Christian I don't feel they are given a second chance.

 

[Runningman]

Agree with you on the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Not sure about suicide. That's why I think that verse I quoted earlier may be talking about blasphemy rather than suicide.

Still, in my opinion suicide would be a very dangerous sin to commit. I think we may have discussed this before.

I don't believe there is any chance for salvation after death... now. We live, we die, and then the judgement. So that would put suicide on very dangerous ground in my opinion.

I know some people who have lost loved ones to suicide. They want to have hope that their loved ones will be saved, but I'm not completely convinced of that. And I definitely don't want to give anyone who is contemplating suicide a hope if there is none. Like I said, I'm not sure but think it would truly be on shaking and dangerous ground, in my opinion.

While that's an interesting commentary and I feel sorry for those who want to commit suicide, the words of Jesus are plain and clear: "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men " and that has to include suicide; it has to literally include every single sin from the seemingly innocuous sin to the most heinous crimes against humanity.

The only exception, and Jesus is very specific, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[1ofthem]

I often wonder about that very thing please consider this what the Lord showed me and I am ok with anyone disagreeing but it has helped me with people know who took their life.
I know Christians who took their life and had no signs they were in trouble, came from left field. I prayed Lord how do I have peace with this? The Lord showed me that not everyone who took their life was their doing.

1. some medication they took or were prescribed had a negative reaction
2. some were mental illness
3. some were perceived as such but were not.

this became a great comfort to many people when they started to look into these things they found out how some were on medication that was supposed to be harmless but caused serious deep depression and cognitive issues. Many families suffer from the loss of a loved one who took their life and had no signs and is in great condemnation. I shared this information with some and Thank God it brought comfort to many people and healing.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Those are good points to consider.

Like I said, I still really don't know exactly how it goes or how God will judge it. Maybe it is different with different circumstances...idk for sure. I still don't want to say anything to encourage suicide, though.

I have lost loved ones who were lost, and a part of me holds out some hope that they had a chance to pray "get saved" before they died. Idk, though.

I've heard people say and actually heard a preacher get up and preach a message that "as a tree falls so shall it lie" but then I am reminded from scripture how the thief on the cross was given the chance for salvation directly before his death.

So, it does make me think that maybe people could call out to Jesus and get saved even if it is with their last breath.

 

[DavidTree]

I feel just before death, a person can realize their mistake and ask God to forgive them before they die. Those who are tormented through mental illness, I believe God see's past their confusion. But for those doing it because the market crashed and they lost their money, or they were facing crimes and rebelled against punishment, and other circumstances along same lines, even if they professed to be Christian I don't feel they are given a second chance.

That is why i said what i said = only God knows what is going on in that persons heart, soul, mind and physical body.

Jumping out the window because a person, while living the high life, lost everything on wall street or gambling is not a valid excuse before God.

On the other hand, young children horrifically abused and as a result never developed into a sound mind - let God decide.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

That is why i said what i said = only God knows what is going on in that persons heart, soul, mind and physical body.

Jumping out the window because a person, while living the high life, lost everything on wall street or gambling is not a valid excuse before God.

On the other hand, young children horrifically abused and as a result never developed into a sound mind - let God decide.

Amen!

 

[1ofthem]

While that's an interesting commentary and I feel sorry for those who want to commit suicide, the words of Jesus are plain and clear: "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men " and that has to include suicide; it has to literally include every single sin from the seemingly innocuous sin to the most heinous crimes against humanity.

The only exception, and Jesus is very specific, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

While I get what you're saying...I'm still just really uncomfortable with it.

I feel, like I should leave it up to God to judge. I don't really even feel I should talk about it out of fear that I might lead to encouraging someone who is struggling/depressed that it is okay to end their life and go on and be with the Lord.

 

[CS1]

While I get what you're saying...I'm still just really uncomfortable with it.

I feel, like I should leave it up to God to judge. I don't really even feel I should talk about it out of fear that I might lead to encouraging someone who is struggling/depressed that it is okay to end their life and go on and be with the Lord.

yes amen, I don't want someone who may be suffering from some of the things I was saying as it's ok to kill yourself. My comment was only in context to those who have. Anyone who is thinking this DO NOT there is help seeks it. We do not want to take the chance on eternaity

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Seems like there is a little more to that, in my opinion. Jesus said if you say anything against the Father or Son it shall be forgiven, but if you say anything against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come.

Exactly, where did Jesus say they were just in danger of committing sin and still had hope if they blasphemed the Holy Ghost?

With suicide:
We all should know that following the Law will not save us. We are only saved through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now if someone is not saved "born again" and commits suicide, then how would they have any chance at forgiveness if they ended their own life?

If someone says they are saved and then commits suicide...How can we even know if they were truly saved? Being saved means putting your faith and trust in the Lord...taking your own life if doing the exact opposite?

So really, I don't know, and I won't speculate on it. That could possibly lead to giving someone a false hope that if they don't want to suffer through life anymore then they can just kill themselves and go on and be with the Lord.

If you have until you die to repent and recieve Christ, You have until death to repent of that sin

Everyone who is a non believer has blasphemed the spirit. They have taken what the HS says about Christ, His conviction and everything he has done. And rejected it.

As for suicide. If someone gets drunk and goes out and gets behind a car and drives into a tree and gets killed. Is this not any different?

This is not about do we think or know a person is saved or not. Its about the truth

if a person who has eternal life and is born of God given the seal of the spirit commits suicide as a child of God. Does God kick them out of his family (loss of salvation) or does God honor his promise. And they had and continue to have eternal life.

In my view it is Gods character at question here. because salvation is of God, not of us.

As for if, I have a question, if Paul and nicodemus or any ot the others where their and they too said Jesus did these things by satan, Are they still lost. Even though they repented and came to Christ.

Remember, never can be forgiven means that, It can never be forgiven, they would be lost forever, with no hope of repentance..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Again, this sounds like speculation and human reasoning.

I think it's best to not try to justify it in any way. Like I said before, it could give people some hope in suicide. I'm sure that is not God's plan for any of us to just give up and take our own lives so it's best not to try to justify it.

Jesus said all sin will be forgiven. So I am not sure why it would be different from any other sin.

As for human reasoning, Was it not Jesus who declaired if God who is loving feeds the birds. Are not his children more valuable than birds.

God shows himself as an all loving, all gracious, long suffering, mercifal Abba Father (DAD)

did he also not say in another place. If a human evil father gives to their children. How much more will our heavenly faith give to his children?

It is not human reasoning, It is just taking what God says about himself. And applying that to a question that is being asked.

 

[CS1]

If you have until you die to repent and recieve Christ, You have until death to repent of that sin

Everyone who is a non believer has blasphemed the spirit. They have taken what the HS says about Christ, His conviction and everything he has done. And rejected it.

As for suicide. If someone gets drunk and goes out and gets behind a car and drives into a tree and gets killed. Is this not any different?

This is not about do we think or know a person is saved or not. Its about the truth

if a person who has eternal life and is born of God given the seal of the spirit commits suicide as a child of God. Does God kick them out of his family (loss of salvation) or does God honor his promise. And they had and continue to have eternal life.

In my view it is Gods character at question here. because salvation is of God, not of us.

As for if, I have a question, if Paul and nicodemus or any ot the others where their and they too said Jesus did these things by satan, Are they still lost. Even though they repented and came to Christ.

Remember, never can be forgiven means that, It can never be forgiven, they would be lost forever, with no hope of repentance..

been drunk never thought to kill myself yet the accident of doing so does happen.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

yes amen, I don't want someone who may be suffering from some of the things I was saying as it's ok to kill yourself. My comment was only in context to those who have. Anyone who is thinking this DO NOT there is help seeks it. We do not want to take the chance on eternaity

Take this chance on eternity?

I am confused. Where does it say do not commit suicide as a requirement for salvation.

We should help people who are in this path show them the love of God. Not threaten them with the lie that they may lose salvation because they kill themselves.

Legalism has never worked. It may scare people out of doing something for a time, but in the end, it will fail

Love is what heals. Love is what helps. Love is what saves and love is what restores.

This thought of judging and trying to use fear to stop people from sinning is dangerous.