BORN AGAIN, A CHANGE IN BODY NOT IN MIND

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BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#1
All threw Christian dome brothers and sisters we hear the term born again. You will hear people in the churches, on the street, at work, even in jail, making the statement, "since I have been born again. For those who have any knowledge in the word (Holy Scriptures) will understand that this just isn’t the case, now this is a pretty simple to understand brother and sisters, pay close a attention to what’s being said. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family (we will have a greater understanding as we go further in this class). When Thomas called Jesus God was he still a man? Take a look at this verse in the book of Numbers.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Note what the verse says, God is not a man, neither is he the son of man. While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#2
Take a look at these verses. Can a flesh and blood man do this?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Look at verse 31, once they realized that it was Jesus they spoke with, what happen? He vanished out of their sight. Remember in John chapter 3 and verse 8. The Lord gave an example of how a spirit would look. He likened a spirit to the wind.( John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.) Can you or can you not see the wind?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#3
But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood
Christ was flesh and bones. An actual resurrected body, yet different from the original body since His blood had been shed. But your understanding of the New Birth is not biblical. It is NOT merely a change in body, but in heart, mind, and spirit by the power of God.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#4
I’m having difficulty following this OP. Are you saying that once one is “Born again” they go through physical changes?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#5
All threw Christian dome brothers and sisters we hear the term born again. You will hear people in the churches, on the street, at work, even in jail, making the statement, "since I have been born again. For those who have any knowledge in the word (Holy Scriptures) will understand that this just isn’t the case, now this is a pretty simple to understand brother and sisters, pay close a attention to what’s being said. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family (we will have a greater understanding as we go further in this class). When Thomas called Jesus God was he still a man? Take a look at this verse in the book of Numbers.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Note what the verse says, God is not a man, neither is he the son of man. While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles.
I've been mulling over this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3 with added pause at verses 9 and 10 when Nic asks, 'how can this be?' and Jesus comments, "You are Isreal's teacher, and you do not understand these things?..." to consider what should have Nicodemus known to not have missed this. And I think you are touching very closely onto that here. Nic thought in natural terms when he should've been that much more familiar with the spiritual significance of the idiosyncrasies and nuances of Torah. With this in mind, I further considered what Jesus meant by saying, "you must be born of water and of the spirit" with more careful consideration of the meaning of 'born of water' because I think I already have a better grasp on what 'born of spirit' means than I do of the former. So, since we all know what born of woman means, a son of woman, or son of man, and so 'born of spirit' likewise can be looked at as 'son of the spirit'...but, son of water?... Jesus can't have meant we are to be water babies...that would be all too 'of the flesh,' but rather we are to be sons of the Word! born of living water!
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
#6
I've been mulling over this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3 with added pause at verses 9 and 10 when Nic asks, 'how can this be?' and Jesus comments, "You are Isreal's teacher, and you do not understand these things?..." to consider what should have Nicodemus known to not have missed this. And I think you are touching very closely onto that here. Nic thought in natural terms when he should've been that much more familiar with the spiritual significance of the idiosyncrasies and nuances of Torah. With this in mind, I further considered what Jesus meant by saying, "you must be born of water and of the spirit" with more careful consideration of the meaning of 'born of water' because I think I already have a better grasp on what 'born of spirit' means than I do of the former. So, since we all know what born of woman means, a son of woman, or son of man, and so 'born of spirit' likewise can be looked at as 'son of the spirit'...but, son of water?... Jesus can't have meant we are to be water babies...that would be all too 'of the flesh,' but rather we are to be sons of the Word! born of living water!
Having said all that, I think the OP meant that we have to be physically changed. But personally, I think that is more of an end to the means. or the apprehension? of the kingdom rather the means to enter it.

I’m having difficulty following this OP. Are you saying that once one is “Born again” they go through physical changes?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#7
So, since we all know what born of woman means, a son of woman, or son of man, and so 'born of spirit' likewise can be looked at as 'son of the spirit'...but, son of water?... Jesus can't have meant we are to be water babies...that would be all too 'of the flesh,' but rather we are to be sons of the Word! born of living water!
Born of water = the New Birth through the power of the Water of the Word of God (the Gospel). Born of the Spirit = Born of God, born from above, born of the Holy Spirit, supernatural regeneration.

Water is a metaphor for both the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. But since the Holy Spirit is already mentioned, the Water is the Gospel (see 1 Peter 1). As to the OP, it is trying to turn everything on its head. The New Birth is not about a transformation of the body but a transformation of the soul and spirit.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,354
3,153
113
#8
All threw Christian dome brothers and sisters we hear the term born again. You will hear people in the churches, on the street, at work, even in jail, making the statement, "since I have been born again. For those who have any knowledge in the word (Holy Scriptures) will understand that this just isn’t the case, now this is a pretty simple to understand brother and sisters, pay close a attention to what’s being said. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family (we will have a greater understanding as we go further in this class). When Thomas called Jesus God was he still a man? Take a look at this verse in the book of Numbers.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Note what the verse says, God is not a man, neither is he the son of man. While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles.
I am having trouble understanding what you are getting at. The part of man that is dead to God is the spirit. We can see this in Genesis. Adam did not die physically the day that he disobeyed. His soul was still functional. So it was his spirit that died. And that is what must be born again. We come into the world through birth. God includes us in the death of Christ when we believe. Again, body and soul are unchanged. But the old, dead spirit is removed. Lord Jesus rose from the dead, and we are still in Him. So we also rise from the dead, again spiritually.

That is how we are born again. The soul is saved progressively ("save" is better understood as "delivered"). There is nothing wrong with the functions of the soul. It is how the self of the soul misuses it to stay in a state of independence form God that is the problem. As we learn to cooperate with the leading of the Holy Spirit, the independent self is diminished and the Lord Jesus becomes Lord in experience, not just theory.

The body is yet to be transformed, as my 70 year old frame knows too well. It will be changed one day and our transformation will be complete.
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
400
225
43
#10
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Get your faith worked out first, God will open your eyes when you do, as it is God that gives the increase, not doctrines of men.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#11
Christ was flesh and bones. An actual resurrected body, yet different from the original body since His blood had been shed. But your understanding of the New Birth is not biblical. It is NOT merely a change in body, but in heart, mind, and spirit by the power of God.
“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to have our minds changed we have to start hearing and believing the new words that convey the knowledge

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭


“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

because the good news in the gospel changes our minds and hearts and that changes our direction and deeds

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Believing the good things of the gospel can change the heart and save the soul
 
Dec 30, 2014
114
31
28
#12
When we die physically . . . our soul and spirit go to Heaven, to be with God . . . the body awaits the resurrection . . . to be changed from corruptible to incorruptible.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,700
6,888
113
#13
All threw Christian dome brothers and sisters we hear the term born again. You will hear people in the churches, on the street, at work, even in jail, making the statement, "since I have been born again. For those who have any knowledge in the word (Holy Scriptures) will understand that this just isn’t the case, now this is a pretty simple to understand brother and sisters, pay close a attention to what’s being said. Now, Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family (we will have a greater understanding as we go further in this class). When Thomas called Jesus God was he still a man? Take a look at this verse in the book of Numbers.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Note what the verse says, God is not a man, neither is he the son of man. While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles.
A hodgepodge of Scriptures mostly misunderstood by you........

Oh well, it should generate some debate, so have fun
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#16
I am having trouble understanding what you are getting at. The part of man that is dead to God is the spirit. We can see this in Genesis. Adam did not die physically the day that he disobeyed. His soul was still functional. So it was his spirit that died. And that is what must be born again. We come into the world through birth. God includes us in the death of Christ when we believe. Again, body and soul are unchanged. But the old, dead spirit is removed. Lord Jesus rose from the dead, and we are still in Him. So we also rise from the dead, again spiritually.

That is how we are born again. The soul is saved progressively ("save" is better understood as "delivered"). There is nothing wrong with the functions of the soul. It is how the self of the soul misuses it to stay in a state of independence form God that is the problem. As we learn to cooperate with the leading of the Holy Spirit, the independent self is diminished and the Lord Jesus becomes Lord in experience, not just theory.

The body is yet to be transformed, as my 70 year old frame knows too well. It will be changed one day and our transformation will be complete.

Jesus say in John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#17
I've been mulling over this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3 with added pause at verses 9 and 10 when Nic asks, 'how can this be?' and Jesus comments, "You are Isreal's teacher, and you do not understand these things?..." to consider what should have Nicodemus known to not have missed this. And I think you are touching very closely onto that here. Nic thought in natural terms when he should've been that much more familiar with the spiritual significance of the idiosyncrasies and nuances of Torah. With this in mind, I further considered what Jesus meant by saying, "you must be born of water and of the spirit" with more careful consideration of the meaning of 'born of water' because I think I already have a better grasp on what 'born of spirit' means than I do of the former. So, since we all know what born of woman means, a son of woman, or son of man, and so 'born of spirit' likewise can be looked at as 'son of the spirit'...but, son of water?... Jesus can't have meant we are to be water babies...that would be all too 'of the flesh,' but rather we are to be sons of the Word! born of living water!
In this case Jesus was using water as a reference of the word of God. Remember what Jesus says in John 4: 10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#18
Christ was flesh and bones. An actual resurrected body, yet different from the original body since His blood had been shed. But your understanding of the New Birth is not biblical. It is NOT merely a change in body, but in heart, mind, and spirit by the power of God.
This conversation between the Pharisees, named Nicodemus and Jesus speaks for itself, and guess what, it is biblical and you reading from the Bible. It is sad that you can't understand a very simple conversation. You never seen a person with a change in heart, mind, and spirit by the power of God, do what Jesus did, in John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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#19
Let's move on. In Genesis the Lord set things in order. Take a look at Genesis and see the distinction between man and God.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind” and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Note these things which were created were after its kind. Notice the change in the next scripture.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Notice man is made in the image of God after his likeness not after His kind. Meaning we look like Him but, we are not made up of the same substance. Take a look at Genesis chapter 2 verse 7. There you will find the 2 elements that men are made of.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice what it says, man was formed from the dust of the ground, and the Lord breathed the breath of life into his nostrils. Dust and breath that's it, nothing else. Take note also it says man became a living soul. It did not say a soul was placed in the man. You are the soul?

Men also have another similarity other than the outward image of The Godhead members. Notice what the Lord says in Genesis chapter 3.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Notice what the Lord says, "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." If Adam didn't listen to Eve we would only have two commandments. 1. Be fruitful and multiply and 2. Do not eat from the tree of knowledge good and evil (listening to Satan). Man would have never died. Everyone from Adam until eternity would still be alive.
 

Isaskar

Active member
Nov 13, 2021
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#20
While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles.
In response to the part higlighted:

Luke 24:39
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

The resurrection body is physical, and yes we will be partakers of the divine nature, but there is nothing and no one above God the Father, the God of gods [Deuteronomy 10:17] and the Most High, as the Bible says.