Bringing science and religion together around a common understanding of the origin of life.

[nate7829]

I have become embroiled in a struggle with promoters of anti-religious scientism after presenting a theory that life on Earth started on a minor early solar system body I call Ushas. The fundamental idea is that life started with the convergence of a unique, or nearly-unique, set of circumstances in the early solar system. The most improbable event was that a nearby gamma ray burst was aimed directly at the solar system. This generated the highly active molecules necessary for life. There are billions of research dollars at stake because my theory undermines NASA's current dogma of spontaneous generation of life on wet planets, e.g., the Earth and icy moons with internal oceans. People from Blue Marble Earth, which promotes the current dogma, are making it clear they are intolerant of opposition. I have been saying that my goal is to bring science and religion together around a common understanding of the origin of life, so I am here to open a dialogue with evangelical Christians to balance the science discussions I have been engaged in. My anti-religious opposition apparently thinks that if they can maintain a schism between science and religion they can achieve total victory.

My religious practice is with the Berkeley Unitarian Universalist Fellowship. UUs have a Christian background but are not Christians because they are non-creedal I am the active scientist in the group and have been studying the mathematical basis of reality informally at UC-Berkeley. The coronavirus shutdown of campus has cut me off from the academic databases and face-to-face contacts there so I have switched to online outreach. My philosophy goes well beyond the typical reductionism to physics. I see that there is a natural trinity of physical reality, information, and consciousness that underlies the Christian trinity.

Physical reality contains a form of "maya" (commonly translated as "illusion") in which chemistry is in the foreground and the geometrical structure of matter is in the background. This is necessary to explain why complex cells evolved before simple ones. Information reality was well understood by Plato, but he wrote in a cryptic style to hide his more radical ideas from his opponents, who had executed his teacher Socrates. Because I have a knowledge of modern mathematical science, I could easily decrypt the riddle of "Plato's Number", though no correct solution has been published in thousands of years. I strongly break from contemporary scientific tradition by being a Biblical scholar. I see that Abrahamic religion describes its replacement by a new social order in our times. The "new heaven and new Earth" in Revelation 21: 1 refers to a new cosmology, which is what I have been studying. "No sea" translates as "no impassible cosmic sea", i.e., space exploration has become possible.

At the moment my research is on connecting science, law, and social action. Mathematical description of reality is emotionally dead for most people. We are being subjected to a crisis giving rise to fear on many fronts, e.g., disease, economic collapse, and social strife. In the U.S. the Magna Carta is no longer taken as the first organic law, so something needs to replace it. The divergence in ideas at the time of the writing of the Constitution was too great, so constitutional law also needs to be radically reformed. I see that World War II has become the new Runnymede and that FDR's Four Freedoms speech in January 1941 has become the new legal starting point. Since then the four freedoms of expression, of worship, from want, and from fear have been written into international law. Freedom from fear is the most basic because it is gained through knowledge, which is supported by the other three freedoms. Freedom from fear has also been put on our agenda right now, so our priority needs to be on the social action necessary to bring it about.

I have delved slightly into quantum mechanics and understand the basics of that science. A lot of people propose that since "there is no reality before we observe it", that we must be the creators of the universe. In my opinion, there is a second option, one in which Chuck Missler (himself a researcher into the quantum phenomena) started teaching, and I would be prone to adopt his way of looking at things.

The Bible can be proven to be the Word of God, because prophecy and what are called macro-codes (which is inherent in the design of the text) can be proven to be outside the dimensionality of time. This can be proven, and thus it must be acknowledged that the Bible is not just another text of moral incentives, but rather the communication of the creator of the universe. When this is acknowledged, the Bible is transformed from a book of wisdom and literature, to the stature of a living Word that is able to penetrate our very lives. The Bible claims this of itself, saying that the Word is living and active, and able to divide the thoughts and intents of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

The Bible also claims that what is seen was made out of what is unseen (2Corinthians 4:18, Hebrews 11:13)

All this to say that the 2nd option to interpret quantum physics is to understand that there is an unseen dimension to this world, and that is the true dimension. We, effectively, are living in a digital simulation, where there is no true locality, there are no objective facts at the sub-atomic level, etc. When you try to reconcile things things with mere science, it seems practically ridiculous that our observable world can be made from smaller things which do not really have any definite location until we observe it. However, when you realize that God made all of this, it makes sense. God says He uses the foolishness of this world to confound the wise (1Corintians 3:18-19); and that is exactly what we are seeing.

To try to understand the creation without God creating it is impossible, which science is getting a first-hand understanding of. Now science is proposing the idea that there are multiple universes out there (even though we have no experiential evidence of them). Science would rather propose that there are an infinite number of universes than to state that a creator created the universe...which one takes more faith to believe?

 

[posthuman]

A lot of people propose that since "there is no reality before we observe it"

it's called 'the Copenhagen interpretation' that things do not exist until observed. people do not observe the whole universe -- if we were creating reality by observation than there would not be any reality beyond our gaze, both in distance and in time. no history, no far away places or events.
but God sees everything; God alone sees all things. the 'observer effect' implies the existence of an universal observer - of God.

 

[posthuman]

it's called 'the Copenhagen interpretation' that things do not exist until observed. people do not observe the whole universe -- if we were creating reality by observation than there would not be any reality beyond our gaze, both in distance and in time. no history, no far away places or events.
but God sees everything; God alone sees all things. the 'observer effect' implies the existence of an universal observer - of God.

@nate7829 @larens

this implies that we have existence because God observes us. our existence derives from Him, from His beholding us.
'in Him we have our being' and 'He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together' and He 'upholds all things by the word of His power'

that 'what can be seen by the things which were made' implies humans create reality through observation is vain hogwash.
the implications of quantum subatomic-diameter physics are that God created and sustains the heavens and the earth; that 'through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.'
quantum physics verifies scripture & reveals the invisible qualities of God, Who sees all that is in secret.

 

[larens]

The Bible can be proven to be the Word of God, because prophecy and what are called macro-codes (which is inherent in the design of the text) can be proven to be outside the dimensionality of time. This can be proven, and thus it must be acknowledged that the Bible is not just another text of moral incentives, but rather the communication of the creator of the universe.

Nearly all great cultural heroes have their biographies rewritten by later generations to be more supernatural. For the New Testament this is understood to have occurred by the late first century. Thus most of the "prophecies" there based on the Old Testament can be explained by authors having knowledge of the Old Testament when they did the rewriting. There are a few prophecies that fall outside of this category. They are not, however, "outside the dimensionality of time". The bidirectionality of causality allows fulfilled prophecies and periodicities in time.

From the ignostic perspective, the word "God" is so diverse in meaning that it does not contribute significantly to the conversation any more than do the diversity of physics interpretations that have no way of distinguishing among themselves.

 

[nate7829]

Nearly all great cultural heroes have their biographies rewritten by later generations to be more supernatural. For the New Testament this is understood to have occurred by the late first century. Thus most of the "prophecies" there based on the Old Testament can be explained by authors having knowledge of the Old Testament when they did the rewriting. There are a few prophecies that fall outside of this category. They are not, however, "outside the dimensionality of time". The bidirectionality of causality allows fulfilled prophecies and periodicities in time.

From the ignostic perspective, the word "God" is so diverse in meaning that it does not contribute significantly to the conversation any more than do the diversity of physics interpretations that have no way of distinguishing among themselves.

This can be proven to be false; the Septuagint was written and in black and white (so to speak) years before a lot of these prophecies came to pass. One of the most fantastic prophecies that was in the Septuagint before it happened was the prophecy given to Daniel concerning Jesus Christ, and when He would come, and what He would do when He came.

The Bible does prove to be outside of the dimensionality of time, by its inherent design. I challenge you to name one place in the Bible where it contradicts known science at this time. The Bible speaks of paths of the seas before we even knew of currents, in fact, the person who was responsible for "discovering" them, names the Bible as being his inspiration for searching for them (Ps 8:8; see the following link for information on Matthew Maury: https://answersingenesis.org/creati...hew-maurys-search-for-the-secret-of-the-seas/)

The prophecy of Jesus' triumphal entry, which was part of the prophecy given to Daniel, can be read about here:
https://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/

Again, this proves that the Bible does not contradict science at all - and yet, in the time when it was written, these scientific facts were not even known yet. Also, it proves that the One who wrote it, knew the future in advance, which is what God claims of Himself (Is 46:9-10)

I hope you will sincerely consider these things, as there is much more at stake than a simple debate about these things. Your eternal residence is at stake. If God really is whom He says He is, then if you don't accept His free gift of a pardon for your sins, you will go to hell, and that is not a place you want to end up. Really look deeply into these things and discern for yourself if the truth is being presented to you.

With compassion,

nate7829

 

[nate7829]

quantum physics verifies scripture & reveals the invisible qualities of God, Who sees all that is in secret.

I completely agree with you; I see quantum physics as a huge impediment to understanding our reality without acknowledging that there is a creator and one holding it all together at the same time (Col 1:15-17)

 

[larens]

This can be proven to be false; the Septuagint was written and in black and white (so to speak) years before a lot of these prophecies came to pass. One of the most fantastic prophecies that was in the Septuagint before it happened was the prophecy given to Daniel concerning Jesus Christ, and when He would come, and what He would do when He came.

Read what someone says before you run off and claim what they are saying is false! I said that a few prophecies were not attributable to rewriting. You are just presenting one of those of which I was thinking. Your details are disputable. Most of them depend on the New Testament, so fall under the category of being explainable by rewriting.

The Bible does prove to be outside of the dimensionality of time, by its inherent design. I challenge you to name one place in the Bible where it contradicts known science at this time. The Bible speaks of paths of the seas before we even knew of currents, ...

Being compatible with science does put the Bible "outside of the dimensionality of time". Ocean navigation is thousands of years older than the Bible. Vague statements, e.g. "paths of the seas" can easily be explained by prior knowledge.

 

[posthuman]

From the ignostic perspective

from our perspective 'ignosticism' is absurd; "God" has a definite, coherent and unambiguous definition. He is in fact a person with Whom we are personally acquainted. this is even more inappropriate than normal in the current context: you are on a Christian forum, speaking to Christians.
"we know Whom we have believed" and are fully persuaded.

 

[posthuman]

Read what someone says before you run off and claim what they are saying is false! I said that a few prophecies were not attributable to rewriting. You are just presenting one of those of which I was thinking. Your details are disputable. Most of them depend on the New Testament, so fall under the category of being explainable by rewriting.

i'm not sure that you understand the objection being raised.
the Septuagint was translated some 300 years before the NT was recorded, and faithfully copied & preserved by people antagonistic to the message of the NT. no Jewish objection is ever historically raised about inaccuracy of citations that Christian authors make from the OT.

it cannot then have been altered in order to fit the narrative of the NT; that is a bogus & ignorant argument. you are much better served to falsely accuse the NT of being entirely fictitious than to presume to accuse the Jews, who likewise reject Christ, to have altered their own sacred texts in order to accommodate Christian beliefs, particularly the hundreds of examples of fulfillment of prophecy in the life & ministry of Jesus in the flesh, whom they hate.

 

[posthuman]

Being compatible with science does put the Bible "outside of the dimensionality of time".

it is not 'compatibility' with observational science that makes the Bible temporally transcendent. it is as Nate said, "its inherent design"

i do not expect that you, being antagonistic to the faith, recognize this design, but it is an extraordinarily interwoven & connected text unlike any other book in the history of the world.

in your great wealth of 'higher math knowledge' do you happen to know much about graph theory & network structure? i could try to explain some things about the design of the text from this perspective that are illustrative of the point being made here.

 

[posthuman]

Nearly all great cultural heroes have their biographies rewritten by later generations to be more supernatural.

except Jesus, about whom men re-write with the purpose of removing His deity.



have you noticed that neither Judaic nor Islamic critics deny the fulfilled prophecies nor any of the miraculous signs Christ performed?

 

[posthuman]

i'm not sure that you understand the objection being raised.
the Septuagint was translated some 300 years before the NT was recorded, and faithfully copied & preserved by people antagonistic to the message of the NT. no Jewish objection is ever historically raised about inaccuracy of citations that Christian authors make from the OT.

it should be mentioned, that the Dead Sea scrolls ((along with abundant other evidence too)) are very strong proof that the Hebrew people were extraordinarily scrupulous among all cultures about accurately passing down the scriptures containing the prophecies in question. i am not a textual scholar, in the slightest, but it's my impression that from a scholarly perspective it is ludicrous to suggest that the Torah & the Prophets were largely rewritten to match the claims of what to the Jews themselves were 1st century heretics.

@larens if you wish to discuss the merits of such a claim and counterargument, you should create a thread in the Bible Discussion Forum, where it will attract the attention of members who are very knowledgeable about textual criticism & transmission.