Bringing things to light

[Jordon]

When we talk about bringing things to light, is it better to leave things in darkness or bring the darkness to the light.

Does the light bring it's self to the darkness

So when we talk about removing books out of the Catholic bible, are we removing something that should be seen in light.

 

[NightTwister]

Were they "removed", or determined that they never should've been there? Remember, Rome refused to reform from within, so they were reformed from without.

 

[Jordon]

Were they "removed", or determined that they never should've been there? Remember, Rome refused to reform from within, so they were reformed from without.

On what bases where they determined they should never have been there tho ?

According to catholics, where ever the bishop is there is the Catholic church, meaning bishops are a true representatives of the true church founded by Jesus Christ himself. A s catholic is a quote made in the bible that means the universal church.

Which basically means if your church doesn't have bishop of pedigree, that can trace there pedigree to the apostles, then you need to question your churches authority.

Catholics believe there first church leader was a cousin to John one of the apostles, who witnessed the crucification.

I raise some more point later

 

[NightTwister]

On what bases where they determined they should never have been there tho ?

According to catholics, where ever the bishop is there is the Catholic church, meaning bishops are a true representatives of the true church founded by Jesus Christ himself. A s catholic is a quote made in the bible that means the universal church.

Which basically means if your church doesn't have bishop of pedigree, that can trace there pedigree to the apostles, then you need to question your churches authority.

Catholics believe there first church leader was a cousin to John one of the apostles, who witnessed the crucification.

I raise some more point later

On the same basis that Rome included them. I know what Catholics say, and I disagree with much of it. So did the Reformers.

 

[Jordon]

On the same basis that Rome included them. I know what Catholics say, and I disagree with much of it. So did the Reformers.

Well on what bases where they deemed they where included.

The catholics belief centres something around, alot of people do t even think the apostles had any authority, which is aiming to belief that relatives of the apostles such as the cousin of John and there ancestors, qualify them as having authority, and there word should be seen as the inspired word of God. or something like that, I'll check it out later if I've not missed something out.

 

[NightTwister]

Well on what bases where they deemed they where included.

Councils

The catholics belief centres something around, alot of people do t even think the apostles had any authority, which is aiming to belief that relatives of the apostles such as the cousin of John and there ancestors, qualify them as having authority, and there word should be seen as the inspired word of God. or something like that, I'll check it out later if I've not missed something out.

Again, I know what Catholics believe. I just don't agree with them often, which is why I'm not a Catholic.

 

[Jordon]

Councils

Again, I know what Catholics believe. I just don't agree with them often, which is why I'm not a Catholic.

the councils of Trent you mean ?

Was the council of Trent the only reason it was deemed certain books should not be included. And what would be the reasons them books where not includes in the reformed bible, like what where the disagreements in these councils, and are we speaking of didfemt councils other than Trent.

From a Catholic view point the written word is not the only authority but the church is also the authority

There are other reason given for there book remaining,

But I wonder did the catholics force that reformation,

 

[CS1]

When we talk about bringing things to light, is it better to leave things in darkness or bring the darkness to the light.

Does the light bring it's self to the darkness

So when we talk about removing books out of the Catholic bible, are we removing something that should be seen in light.

are you RCC?

 

[NightTwister]

the councils of Trent you mean ?

The Council of Rome (382 AD) determined the 73 books (46 OT, 27 NT) of the Catholic Canon.

Was the council of Trent the only reason it was deemed certain books should not be included. And what would be the reasons them books where not includes in the reformed bible, like what where the disagreements in these councils, and are we speaking of didfemt councils other than Trent.

From a Catholic view point the written word is not the only authority but the church is also the authority

There are other reason given for there book remaining,

But I wonder did the catholics force that reformation,

The Reformers looked at many things, including the Canon. They agreed on some and disagreed on some, both with the Catholic Church and each other. This eventually turned into Confessions (e.g. Westminster, Lutheran, etc.). The Council of Trent was a response to that.

 

[Jordon]

are you RCC?

In a theological sense I could be, but in a grounded upbringing nope,

Never seen a Catholic bible in my life

 

[CS1]

In a theological sense I could be, but in a grounded upbringing nope,

Never seen a Catholic bible in my life

The reason why I ask is because those who see the 66 books of the bible as the Canon of Scripture is based solely on the Person of Christ. That is why all other books were not considered as the Measuring rod by which all Scripture is built upon.

RCC hold to traditional writings as being inspired. That why they have included books from the Apocrypha. And Maccabees.

They books are not aliened with Hebrew writers of the Old and do not speak as Eyewitnesses of those of Christ in the New Testament.

 

[Jordon]

The reason why I ask is because those who see the 66 books of the bible as the Canon of Scripture is based solely on the Person of Christ. That is why all other books were not considered as the Measuring rod by which all Scripture is built upon.

RCC hold to traditional writings as being inspired. That why they have included books from the Apocrypha. And Maccabees.

They books are not aliened with Hebrew writers of the Old and do not speak as Eyewitnesses of those of Christ in the New Testament.

Thanks I appreciate the knowledge, the book of Maccabees mentions praying for the dead, which I'm taking another persons word on it, and maccabees is not in the 66 books of the reformed bible.

But I wonder is praying for the dead in the 66 books of the reformed bible, with out looking I don't know.

 

[Jordon]

The reason why I ask is because those who see the 66 books of the bible as the Canon of Scripture is based solely on the Person of Christ. That is why all other books were not considered as the Measuring rod by which all Scripture is built upon.

RCC hold to traditional writings as being inspired. That why they have included books from the Apocrypha. And Maccabees.

They books are not aliened with Hebrew writers of the Old and do not speak as Eyewitnesses of those of Christ in the New Testament.

Further research says the catholics believe the books they have is the inspired word of God in a deuteronomical sense.

They say the books are inspired on Christian practice before Christ, and considered guided by the holy spirit, Maccabees, which include the Jewish revolt, and the fall out was a Jewish rebellion against the selucid empire, which was rebellion over religion persecution, the people of the selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple, to treat something sacred with disrespect, Like acts of violence, so the Jews rebelled against the selucid empire, out of religious freedom.

The selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple 167 years before christ.

Faith devine providence obedience in the book of Maccabees is said to align with our reformed bible in face of adversity

 

[Gideon300]

When we talk about bringing things to light, is it better to leave things in darkness or bring the darkness to the light.

Does the light bring it's self to the darkness

So when we talk about removing books out of the Catholic bible, are we removing something that should be seen in light.

It's not like the books are banned or no longer available. I see no point in studying what is not scripture. Some like to read them. Their choice. Including them in the Bible gives them an authority that they do not deserve. Most Catholics I've met rarely study the Bible anyway.

 

[Gideon300]

Further research says the catholics believe the books they have is the inspired word of God in a deuteronomical sense.

They say the books are inspired on Christian practice before Christ, and considered guided by the holy spirit, Maccabees, which include the Jewish revolt, and the fall out was a Jewish rebellion against the selucid empire, which was rebellion over religion persecution, the people of the selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple, to treat something sacred with disrespect, Like acts of violence, so the Jews rebelled against the selucid empire, out of religious freedom.

The selucid empire desecrated the Jewish temple 167 years before christ.

Faith devine providence obedience in the book of Maccabees is said to align with our reformed bible in face of adversity

Christian practice before Christ? That makes no sense to me.

Personally, I believe the protestant Bible is sufficient. Obviously the RC Bible has done nothing to rid that organisation of false teaching, moral rot and corruption.

 

[Jordon]

It's not like the books are banned or no longer available. I see no point in studying what is not scripture. Some like to read them. Their choice. Including them in the Bible gives them an authority that they do not deserve. Most Catholics I've met rarely study the Bible anyway.

yep this a good point,

But we have to see the complete picture, which is related to the understanding purgatory thread I've just started.

And of course free will and it's dire consequences.

So it related to mainly faith alone grace alone Christ alone, but yet it looks like we have been hud winked, because my understanding purgatory thread shows the catholics do believe in faith alone,

The understanding is I've been working on logical understanding. to get to the bottom of things.

Seeing the picture, that faith alone, of a time you had all these people holding on to a catholic bible like how you would hold your baby, but where they all committing the sin of indulgences, well definitely not you know.

Then you get a Catholic called Luther, who because some Catholics where commuting the sin of indulgences, he in effect wrote a whole new bible as in leaving some out, and now we have a whole bunch of people holding on to that bible like how you would hold onto a baby.


So the question I now wonder was all this reformation a deliberate act, thought up by the catholics, kind a like give everyone a reason to fight over religion, and they will all come to understand it in some ways, seems to be a message I'm getting from somewhere, but I don't know where ?

 

[Jordon]

Christian practice before Christ? That makes no sense to me.

Personally, I believe the protestant Bible is sufficient. Obviously the RC Bible has done nothing to rid that organisation of false teaching, moral rot and corruption.

yep you would have to understand the sermon in the understanding purgotry thread to understand that theology. From a Catholic theolgy that is.

That Christian faith was being practiced in a sense that the book of Maccabees with records not long before Christ, was also related to forgiveness of sins, in a mortal sense and a lesser senses, and in catholic reasoning is more a theology for them to say the book of Maccabees is the inspired word of God

 

[Gideon300]

yep this a good point,

But we have to see the complete picture, which is related to the understanding purgatory thread I've just started.

And of course free will and it's dire consequences.

So it related to mainly faith alone grace alone Christ alone, but yet it looks like we have been hud winked, because my understanding purgatory thread shows the catholics do believe in faith alone,

The understanding is I've been working on logical understanding. to get to the bottom of things.

Seeing the picture, that faith alone, of a time you had all these people holding on to a catholic bible like how you would hold your baby, but where they all committing the sin of indulgences, well definitely not you know.

Then you get a Catholic called Luther, who because some Catholics where commuting the sin of indulgences, he in effect wrote a whole new bible as in leaving some out, and now we have a whole bunch of people holding on to that bible like how you would hold onto a baby.


So the question I now wonder was all this reformation a deliberate act, thought up by the catholics, kind a like give everyone a reason to fight over religion, and they will all come to understand it in some ways, seems to be a message I'm getting from somewhere, but I don't know where ?

No, I do not believe that there was a Catholic conspiracy. Catholics went to literal war against Reformers. The power of Rome was challenged. Like any despotic regime, it responded with force.

 

[Jordon]

No, I do not believe that there was a Catholic conspiracy. Catholics went to literal war against Reformers. The power of Rome was challenged. Like any despotic regime, it responded with force.

well for any plan to work when buying into drama, it's believed that if you strike with force, force will strike back, and then what you will have is some Catholic belief ruling the land,

It's like take Scotland during the so called transformation they all became Presbyterian, which was influence by John Calvin,.

But now Scotland is believed to believe that in the 2022 census Roman Catholics belief is 13.3 percent of it's people, alot

And only 28.9 percent for the church of Scotland. Alot

Once the church of Scotland protestant was 44.5 percent. The highest since 2000

The highest for Roman Catholic war 15 percent.

So protestant faith has seen the biggest decrease whilst Roman Catholic has stayed steady.

Records from the year 2000 when senses on faith began in Scotland.

 

[Gideon300]

yep you would have to understand the sermon in the understanding purgotry thread to understand that theology. From a Catholic theolgy that is.

That Christian faith was being practiced in a sense that the book of Maccabees with records not long before Christ, was also related to forgiveness of sins, in a mortal sense and a lesser senses, and in catholic reasoning is more a theology for them to say the book of Maccabees is the inspired word of God

Sin is sin. I know why Catholics differentiate, but they misinterpret the Word.