Building upon a lie

[Grace777x70]

Here is what I had said to chester about him showing Christ-like behavior in his interactions with us. He was and is not like some others. If people identify themselves in this quote - then that is between themselves and their Lord.

It is very telling what parts people pick out of context and then "reformulate" them in their own minds to "appear" to be saying something else. - then they set about to attack this self-reformulated thought as if it was real.

This is why we have to implement Romans 16:17 unfortunately in some cases.

Quote:

I like your way of communicating - it is so different from those that slander and call others names because they believe something different. Us grace believers have been called every name in the book - especially from those that espouse we are to walk in righteousness and purity.

I have seen others and myself called demonic, heretics, lovers of sin, reprobates...etc - one even changed my name to "greasy-gracist777x70".

I want to thank you for your Christ-like behavior in your exchanges with us. It shows the outward working of the real life of Christ that is in you.

UNQUOTE:

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Isn't it interesting how he stops there, and never goes on to verse 39???

"But "we" do not belong to "those" who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved."

Isn't it interesting how "those" who confess to wilfully sinning also pronounce themselves as "we" instead of "those" who fall back unto perdition? LOL

Just name it, and claim it! LOL

 

[FreeNChrist]

Isn't it interesting how "those" who confess to wilfully sinning also pronounce themselves as "we" instead of "those" who fall back unto perdition? LOL

Just name it, and claim it! LOL

Well, we can't all be like you. Some of us actually need Jesus to save us.

 

[Stephen63]

I am not denying the fact that these passages are in the bible! but the same God came looking for this creature called man when he fell, The same God cloth him; The same God stoop so low as to share in creation, by taking up the form of this creature just to save him from eternal damnation!! it is this same God who says "their sins i will remember no more" etc!

So my question to you again is this; is this God a two faced God, who is both wicked (towards His enemies) and good (towards His own) At the same time?
if You see God that way, where then is the difference between Allah, Buddha etc and the God of the Christians?
Or is God just like these gods, who only love those that love him and hate them that hate him?

First of all, why are you trying to lock me into a "either this or that" convo, when neither are correct, & neither were mentioned? And secondly, why are you steering so hard to cover up the fact that God will take vengeance in these final judgements that are coming?

The tribulation itself isn't just only for the sinners in the world. Note the scripture:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

This scripture shows that before the tribulation can take place, there will be a rebellion against God by none other than christians that will be spiritually blinded for their willful, continual sin against Him. JUDGMENT BEGINS FIRST AT GOD'S HOUSE.
2 Peter 3:15-16 (NLT)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— [SUP]16 [/SUP]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
*A side note: Hypergrace teaching dominates in predomiately twisting Paul's letters just as Peter said they would be. A perfect fulfillment of scripture. Their followers will be destroyed in God's fierce & final judgment. Now on to V17.....

2 Peter 3:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

Peter is warning the church to be on guard & watch out for these false teachings for it will cause them to fall away from their own steadfast salvation. These verses prove saved christians can lose their salvation. More verses.....
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Absolute evidence that the church can & many WILL apostatize. When they do, it will be impossible for them to repent & come back to God.

Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs.

Hypergrace does exactly that..... living a lifestyle contrary to their original beliefs. I am convinced it IS the predominant heresy that will lead countless millions into the tribulation. It's growing like wildfire.

 

[Stephen63]

If everyone here would put as much effort in service for God, rather than trying to prove that he/she has the correct message of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, we could put a serious dent in the number of lost hurting people in this world.

That's very ironic, as well as projecting on the innocent, considering that hypergrace is a horrific & damnable doctrine, the opposite of God's will for christians. It's THIS DOCTRINE that's putting a HUGE DENT of destruction into the church!

 

[Stephen63]

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I imagine it is difficult to describe something if you do not have the ability to comprehend.

Your theology places an impossible conflict upon the word of God. Tares may look like wheat but they are not wheat.

Redeemed souls do not fall away and return to condemnation. To do so is to make the blood of Christ of no effect. It is to make the eternal finite.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

---

1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[PeterJens]

he has no doctrine without the pick and choose method and the doctrine he does have, is not Gods
anyway, his doctrine is CONDEMNATION and revolving salvation

There is a tension in discipleship between the goal and the walk.
Paul exemplifies this with Timothy.

He exhorts him to live a blameless life, of holiness and purity.
Jesus in the parable of the servant who gets lazy and abusive because the master is away
too long, again shows we have a choice.

It is not a choice of salvation but behaviour, not being out of the Kingdom and in again
as legalists believe but walking in faith and love with a learning process, where sin and hurt
becomes more understanding as need and support is provided in love through Christ.

What we often forget is how alone most are, and how little they connect with themselves or
those around them. Jesus is addressing this at a fundamental level, and until you wake up to
this it will always be a circus of ideas.

To condemn people for walking as Jesus walked is the total opposite of His message.
But then His sheep would never fall for such a notion which is testimony enough.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well, we can't all be like you. Some of us actually need Jesus to save us.

Wait I thought you said you were already made perfect--->>>

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist
Christians have been made perfect forever by what Christ has done, not because we act perfectly.

Even though hyper grace makes a disconnect between being perfect and actually acting that way. Again, we can see a contradiction in words vs. actions, as ongoing wilful sin is far from being "Christ like" and already made perfect as they claim.

 

[Tintin]

I see you're still peddling your lies In 'Truth'. Wake up! Smell the Gospel.

 

[PeterJens]

It is very telling what parts people pick out of context and then "reformulate" them in their own minds to "appear" to be saying something else. - then they set about to attack this self-reformulated thought as if it was real.

The above statement is a true expression of a brainwashed person.
Every phrase even this one is bounded by interpretation and assumptions.

So if you use a phrase enough times one way it comes to mean this. This is what we define
as a culture. HG preachers have created their own faith culture so the same phrases in scripture
mean different things to them than to us.

I have seen this with different religious groups, namely in muslim and christian debates.
Both sides believe they have won a debate because they are speaking different cultural languages.

So deep this runs, that it can take 10+ years for some to understand the idea of democracy and free
speech.

grace777 exemplifies this in its full effect. He no longer reads things as they have been read for
thousands of years but only in his groups view, and thinks we are reformulating the words in our minds.

This is a key trap of cults, when you do not allow your mind to see the multiple ways a phrase could be
interpreted. For instance a phrase like "love each other as I have loved you."

Woe. Love, that is sentimental tea parties, hypocracy and pretending you care. So this is being said to
just make you feel bad and condemned because only Christ can love like this. It was said before the
cross to show how sinful man is, but now after the cross we are not bound by the law.

What if Jesus actually meant this? What if it is our position as sinners that makes us realise the road
we need to walk is difficult and long to get to this place, but this is where we need to be.
And Jesus says follow, listen, obey and you will arrive.

But if you listen to only one strand of teaching that is what you will become. The Holy Spirit is so
much more than this, but it is your choice, which is the whole point. Has love taken root in you and
are you listening to your Lord?

 

[heavenly_bound]

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I imagine it is difficult to describe something if you do not have the ability to comprehend.

Your theology places an impossible conflict upon the word of God. Tares may look like wheat but they are not wheat.

Redeemed souls do not fall away and return to condemnation. To do so is to make the blood of Christ of no effect. It is to make the eternal finite.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

AMEN! WELL SAID

 

[PeterJens]

Believers are children of the Light not darkness. For you to imply that believers sin willfully is in itself evil. You endeavor to lay upon others burdens you cannot bear yourself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The above idea is an interesting point. If a christian confesses they sin continually, describes
the sin they commit and seems unwilling to change, I would describe that as will full sin.

If a christian says they are condemned daily by their own behaviour, it is not me who is saying
they are doing the wrong things, it is their own conscience.

When Paul called Timothy to walk blamelessly, in holiness and purity he did not have in mind
the above behaviour. So the reality is these believers have no real idea what it means to walk
like the apostles and disciples of Jesus, and are pushing a different theology.

 

[PeterJens]

Holiness is simple - Follow Jesus and listen to Him.

When you find what He says hard, it is hard, but it is hard for a good reason.
The problem between us and God is us.

Inside us is a war of self justification, day in day out. It says no matter what
I do, it is right and how dare anyone tell me otherwise. It is why we get up
everyday and are not squashed flat in depression and failure.

So we have to doubt how we are inside and listen to Jesus and walk.
No joke, it changes you, really changes you. And why, because Jesus died,
and looking at Him there on the cross, we know if He meant it means this much
to Him and He wants us to walk, it must work and it must be very important.

But our hearts will always resist, always fight, always complain and try to find a
way to say we are ok, and we do not need to do this. This is all a lie.

This is why I laugh we people want to call me self righteous, they have no clue
what real righteousness is, because self is left out, it is righteousness.

 

[Grace777x70]

That's very ironic, as well as projecting on the innocent, considering that hypergrace is a horrific & damnable doctrine, the opposite of God's will for christians. It's THIS DOCTRINE that's putting a HUGE DENT of destruction into the church!

Nonsense!...it is the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset that is perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ. The true gospel exposes this for what it really is and slandering the gospel of the grace of Christ for us doesn't help in any way.

The same way that Ishmael persecuted the son of the promise Isaac - is the same thing that happens here. Even in Cain and Abel we can see those that are of the works of the flesh rise up against the children of promise that rely on Christ's work only for salvation.

Look at Cain and Abel. Both were doing one could say "religious" activites. One trusted in God's way and brought blood for a sin sacrifice. The other brought his "work" that he did.

God says one was righteous and the other wasn't although they were both "seeking God".

1 John 3:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you.

We should not be surprised when we are attacked by this "religious works-based mindset". Our complete trust in the Lord's completed work for us by grace through faith exposes their false religion for what it really is and thus they rise up to slay us in their religious zeal.

Paul also talked about this happening in Gal. 4:28-29. Those of the flesh will persecute those of the promise which is trusting in Christ's work alone for life and salvation.

Galatians 4:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

 

[Grace777x70]

The fact that some people don't read things the way it has supposedly been read for years is the what the catholic church used against Martin Luther. The church for over 1100 years had their doctrine until Luther came and said "The just shall live by faith".

We should be thankful that Luther brought justification by faith "back" to the church in spite of their claim "we have been doing this belief for 1100 years -who are you to change what has been believed?"

Listen to the Holy Spirit inside of us and we will grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ's love for us. You will also be persecuted and attacked for trusting in Christ's work alone for salvation but that is part of the deal.

The Lord never forsakes us! We can trust Him in all situations as He is faithful all the time. We have a great salvation in our Lord. Let's start believing in all that He has already done so that we can grow up in the Lord and help others in this life.

 

[PeterJens]

Nonsense!...it is the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset that is perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ. The true gospel exposes this for what it really is and slandering the gospel of the grace of Christ for us doesn't help in any way.

Read the words for what they are. You can never be righteous or holy in Christ.

If you believe this then you are not a follower of Jesus and the cross for you is empty.

The accusation is it was not Jesus's intention for us to walk like He walked, or do the
things He did. Odd that because he said the opposite.

"Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
Matt 10:38

"Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ."
1 Cor 11:1

"To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."
1 Peter 2:21

The idea grace777 is pushing is to follow is you doing the work that only Christ
should do. The problem is Christ meant for us to follow and obey, to walk in
His ways and be transformed by them.

It is grace777 who is lying and slandering the gospel as the words Jesus, Paul and
Peter demonstrate.

But it shows how deeply this deception has become that this obvious truth has to
be brought out, and so many who claim to know Christ do not know these truths.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is what I say the scriptures say about being righteous in Christ alone - not in our own humanistic self-efforts.

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[Grace777x70]

OK..just a couple more....but that's it..lol..Isn't it exciting to see what the Lord Jesus has done for us in His grace and love? Let's start believing in all that He has already done for us!

We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.

Only in the Lord is true righteousness - not in our humanistic self-efforts. Let's let the life of Christ that is in us manifest out to help others in this dying and hurt world.

Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

 

[PeterJens]

It is an odd accusation to say the evangelical church does not preach by faith alone are we saved.

It is like HG is trying to say people are following a works based salvation, and so not relying on
faith, so are self-righteous hypocrites relying of good behaviour to balance out the evil.

It is a subtle attack if you do not realise the whole of the protestant church is founded on salvation
by faith alone, which bring good works as its fruit.

But this is the lie they continually create and project. You are not HG therefore a legalist, therefore
a works salvationist, therefore a sinner who needs to repent. This works well for those who truly are
legalists and have missed the gospel but not for the people of God who are following Jesus.

Do not be deceived, lying about what people believe and how they express it does not define integrity
or respect or even love and grace. But like so many heresies they are more concerned with the evil
believers and their destruction than bringing a light to the sinful lost world.

From the beginning these people have used the same approaches, and not listened to what people say
or express, but only their preconceived ideas about who they are and where they are coming from.

And strangely when I was accused of being angry by an angry person, he finally confessed he gets very
angry about other believers. It might not have crossed his mind, this very act shows his failure and sin.

But then sin was never high on their moral list, just get rid of the opposition at any cost.
You know where historically this kind of hatred leads, and it has nothing to do with following Jesus.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Wait I thought you said you were already made perfect--->>>

Even though hyper grace makes a disconnect between being perfect and actually acting that way. Again, we can see a contradiction in words vs. actions, as ongoing wilful sin is far from being "Christ like" and already made perfect as they claim.

Actually, it is God who said it. He also said why we have been made perfect forever, and it ain't because of anything we do or don't do.