Building upon a lie

[notuptome]

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

---

1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Mark is speaking to Israel and the traditions of keeping the law for righteousness sake. A line of reasoning Paul thoroughly debunks in Romans 2:17-23

Romans 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

I concur that preaching must confront sin and allow the Holy Spirit to convict the sinner. Men must see that God hates sin and will not allow sin to enter into heaven. The gospel message is that God loves you but hates sin. Die in your sin and you perish eternally.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2

Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.
Rom 12:10

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:8

Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 Cor 13:11

Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
1 Thes 4:9

Now as cut off lonely individuals looking at the internet to express your views
the above words will probably fly right over your heads.

But this is Gods heart, to truly know each other and agree with one mind how
we are to behave.

But is you believe we are lost strangers with Jesus tying us vaguely together these
words are so alien to you, you automatically ignore them as not part of the gospel.

But this is the point of spiritual truth and reality in your life. When are you going to
get real about the chaos in your heart and start to learn what love really is?

I never thought love would be a alien concept to believers, but I begin to doubt
whether you are just religious and the words some sop to your fallen consciences.

 

[Grace777x70]

Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

Doing righteous deeds because Christ has made us righteous is what 1 John chapter 3 is talking about. This shows the difference between the devil and those that belong to Christ. John was describing a believer and an unbeliever.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested in a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man...you will then manifest outwardly who you already are now in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face,beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13[/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells and His life gets manifested in love towards others in this hurt and dying world.

 

[PeterJens]

You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:14-16

Good deeds are the fruit of Gods work in our hearts. Righteousness brings about good deeds,
love at work in the soul bring sight to good things to do for another with a good heart.

But then you knew this already, because you are following Jesus and are born again,
hallelujah.

Some think that spreading the idea people are ignorant of you are saved and then you
show love, they wish to make it seem like they are surrounded by spiritually ignorant
people and they alone hold the real truth.

Listen to Jesus, let His words dwell in your soul, and the Holy Spirit will give you light
as to your next steps.

 

[PeterJens]

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20

The Pharisees and the teachers of the law knew what good behaviour was but they did not
do it or followed loving others. Their hearts were cold and empty.

Jesus exhorts us to follow righteousness but with a live and loving heart.
This is real righteousness surpassing the fake surface pretence of the pharisees who liked
self indulgence and greed.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It is an odd accusation to say the evangelical church does not preach by faith alone are we saved.

It is like HG is trying to say people are following a works based salvation, and so not relying on
faith, so are self-righteous hypocrites relying of good behaviour to balance out the evil.

It is a subtle attack if you do not realise the whole of the protestant church is founded on salvation
by faith alone, which bring good works as its fruit.

But this is the lie they continually create and project. You are not HG therefore a legalist, therefore
a works salvationist, therefore a sinner who needs to repent. This works well for those who truly are
legalists and have missed the gospel but not for the people of God who are following Jesus.

Do not be deceived, lying about what people believe and how they express it does not define integrity
or respect or even love and grace. But like so many heresies they are more concerned with the evil
believers and their destruction than bringing a light to the sinful lost world.

From the beginning these people have used the same approaches, and not listened to what people say
or express, but only their preconceived ideas about who they are and where they are coming from.

And strangely when I was accused of being angry by an angry person, he finally confessed he gets very
angry about other believers. It might not have crossed his mind, this very act shows his failure and sin.

But then sin was never high on their moral list, just get rid of the opposition at any cost.
You know where historically this kind of hatred leads, and it has nothing to do with following Jesus.

Yep, the main one who constantly cries slander and malice is it's main practitioner=G-man 777

 

[Grace777x70]

Nonsense!...it is the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset that is perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ. The true gospel exposes this for what it really is and slandering the gospel of the grace of Christ for us doesn't help in any way.

The same way that Ishmael persecuted the son of the promise Isaac - is the same thing that happens here. Even in Cain and Abel we can see those that are of the works of the flesh rise up against the children of promise that rely on Christ's work only for salvation.

Look at Cain and Abel. Both were doing one could say "religious" activites. One trusted in God's way and brought blood for a sin sacrifice. The other brought his "work" that he did.

God says one was righteous and the other wasn't although they were both "seeking God".

1 John 3:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you.

We should not be surprised when we are attacked and slandered by this "religious works-based mindset".

Our complete trust in the Lord's completed work for us by grace through faith exposes their false religion for what it really is and thus they rise up to malign others in their religious zeal.

Paul also talked about this happening in Gal. 4:28-29. Those of the flesh will persecute those of the promise which is trusting in Christ's work alone for life and salvation.

Galatians 4:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

G-man is a copy paste slanderer and false accuser, it's speed slandering. LOL

 

[eph610]

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20

The Pharisees and the teachers of the law knew what good behaviour was but they did not
do it or followed loving others. Their hearts were cold and empty.

Jesus exhorts us to follow righteousness but with a live and loving heart.
This is real righteousness surpassing the fake surface pretence of the pharisees who liked
self indulgence and greed.

It had nothing to do with Pharisee greed or indulgence and everything to do with their works of self righteousness and their inability to change....

 

[Chester]

I've got an idea: Let's have a round table discussion of this issue after we all get to glory . . .

FreeNChrist, Grace 777, SpiritinTruth, PeterJens, Paul, and James

I think this could be some of the best entertainment available in glory! Just kidding!


Oh, I forgot . . . two of the six probably won't be there . . . . .
You choose which two!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!

(A) Grace 777 and FreeNChrist
(B) PeterJens and SpiritinTruth
(C) Paul and James

Maybe we should do a multiple choice poll!!!!

I will vote for C -- Just kidding!!

In all actuality, I wager a guess that these six will actually be able to have a good conversation in glory and have a good laugh over all of their previous differences!

 

[Grace777x70]

I've got an idea: Let's have a round table discussion of this issue after we all get to glory . . .

FreeNChrist, Grace 777, SpiritinTruth, PeterJens, Paul, and James

I think this could be some of the best entertainment available in glory! Just kidding!


Oh, I forgot . . . two of the six probably won't be there . . . . .
You choose which two!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!

(A) Grace 777 and FreeNChrist
(B) PeterJens and SpiritinTruth
(C) Paul and James

Maybe we should do a multiple choice poll!!!!

I will vote for C -- Just kidding!!

In all actuality, I wager a guess that these six will actually be able to have a good conversation in glory and have a good laugh over all of their previous differences!

LOL..I agree too that we all be there because if sins in the flesh stopped any of us from going to be with the Lord - we would all be doomed. Jesus' blood speaks of better things!....and we have a better covenant with better promises!

 

[eph610]

That's very ironic, as well as projecting on the innocent, considering that hypergrace is a horrific & damnable doctrine, the opposite of God's will for christians. It's THIS DOCTRINE that's putting a HUGE DENT of destruction into the church!

Would you ever commit adultery on your wife?
Probably never

Why would you never have an affair?

Because you love your wife with all your mind soul and strength and she loves you the same way and both of you have more than just physical intimacy with each other. You have emotional and spiritual intimacy with each other and it is the love & intimacy for each other that keeps you from seeking out other women and her seeking out other men.

This love and intimacy makes following the rules and regulations of your marriage instinctive and you don't give them a second a thought and follow them without compulsion to perform or fear of judgement or loss

Likewise those that believe in empowering grace would never commit adultery with Jesus, by living in SIN...why?
Because we have intimacy with him and he has intimacy with us...it is out love for him that keeps us from living a life of SIN.

Our love and intimacy with Jesus makes following the rules and regulations in the Word instinctive and we don't give them a second a thought and follow them without compulsion to perform or fear of judgement or loss

God's will for Christians is that they seek to worship him in spirit and truth and many, like you, cannot do that, because you see him as the Angry Judge, ready to throw you in hell for any law you disobey, ready to take away your salvation when you mess up, constantly trying to "appease" him through self righteous performances and acts....

The people in my above description have failed themselves greatly, because they have never, ever related to God by looking at Jesus Christ....

Just like the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, they could see, but needed to become blind again to have vision.

I don't know the God you describe Stephen, but I do know and relate to the God that came in the form of man, named Jesus Christ...

Maybe you should try Jesus on, instead of religion...

 

[eph610]

Hebrews 10:26 - for if we keep on sinning willfully (this is a present tense = ongoing action)

The text does not give a number of times - it points to the attitude and approach we take to sin.

For the believer God forgives all our sins and he does not just count to 490 and then stop forgiving.

The point is not the number of times we sin, but our ongoing approach and pattern of life.

How can this be present tense, when there is an FOR & AN IF in front of the verse!?!?

How are you going to reconcile proper context of vs.26 when you need to go back to vs19-25 to understand the FOR IF statement that is not a present tense action, but a result of something

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

LOL..I agree too that we all be there because if sins in the flesh stopped any of us from going to be with the Lord - we would all be doomed.

Speak for yourself. And if one were truly born again of God's Spirit and truly set free from sin, then ongoing sin should not be a issue at all. But clearly some here are trying to justify ongoing wilful sin and still be saved. But I am here to tell you different BY THE WORDS OF GOD. A servant of sin abides not in the House forever=no eternal security for ongoing sinners= the unrighteous

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:

 

[PeterJens]

It had nothing to do with Pharisee greed or indulgence and everything to do with their works of self righteousness and their inability to change....

This is an interesting bias you have here. Jesus highlighted their greed and self indulgence as
a major problem.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matt 23:25

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matt 23:23

Jesus is criticising the lack of love and forgiveness they have in their lives.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
Matt 23:27

Here Jesus is saying they are dead inside, no response, no care or empathy, nothing, but evil
desires.

In these words there is nothing about self righteousness, or inability to change.

Jesus did criticise their desire to get praise for good things in public, but he specifically said
we should do good things in secret, so that no one knows except the Lord. He did not criticise
the acts themselves just how they were done.

Now this is a simple appraisal of Jesus's words. So I think I have proved my point.
So I believe you are mistaken about what Jesus meant or was concerned about.

If I am wrong please show me, from Jesus's words.

Now I would hold this is no minor point you are raising with me but a simple lie.
And this lie comes from the HG theology you are following which is also a lie.

And we know it is a lie, because it contradicts the word of God.

If you had respect for this reality you would concede to the word of God, but I
know from past dealings with HG believers you would rather stand in rebellion than
bow the knee to Christ.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Speak for yourself. And if one were truly born again of God's Spirit and truly set free from sin, then ongoing sin should not be a issue at all. But clearly some here are trying to justify ongoing wilful sin and still be saved. But I am here to tell you different BY THE WORDS OF GOD. A servant of sin abides not in the House forever=no eternal security for ongoing sinners= the unrighteous

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:

"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11

 

[PeterJens]

Our love and intimacy with Jesus makes following the rules and regulations in the Word instinctive and we don't give them a second a thought and follow them without compulsion to perform or fear of judgement or loss

This sounds admirable, but it is not the testimony of many HG believers here.
They have testified to the opposite, they continually sin, but God has forgiven them before
they even fall.

I do not doubt your particular version of this theology maybe closer to our conception of walking
in righteousness and purity, as you describe the power of love and intimacy as the driving power
behind behaviour.

But you are the first from the HG area to present things in this way, and I would say Amen.

It is why there is so much confusion of ideas and intension, but this is the nature of the church
and the work of sanctification.

 

[gb9]

Speak for yourself. And if one were truly born again of God's Spirit and truly set free from sin, then ongoing sin should not be a issue at all. But clearly some here are trying to justify ongoing wilful sin and still be saved. But I am here to tell you different BY THE WORDS OF GOD. A servant of sin abides not in the House forever=no eternal security for ongoing sinners= the unrighteous

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived:

" ongoing sin should not be an issue at all " . so, how many and which sins would it take to disqualify one from salvation?? this is panting with a very wide brush.

sounds like one could make a safe conclusion that it would take no sin for one to be truly saved. and this would be.........sinless perfectionism. see, again not saying it directly, but heavily implying it.

so, will today be the day that you state that you are not sinless and perfect??

 

[gb9]

also, when " not having ongoing sin " is being said, I wonder if the person, or people are using the Biblical definition of sin, which is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. this is the Biblical definition of sin.

hate to tell ya'll this, but just making up a personal list of do's and dont's , then keeping it , does not count in God's eyes. he holds us to His standards , which I listed above.

this is why we need the Rightiousness of Christ, be we do not have near enough.

 

[FreeNChrist]

" ongoing sin should not be an issue at all " . so, how many and which sins would it take to disqualify one from salvation?? this is panting with a very wide brush.

sounds like one could make a safe conclusion that it would take no sin for one to be truly saved. and this would be.........sinless perfectionism. see, again not saying it directly, but heavily implying it.

so, will today be the day that you state that you are not sinless and perfect??

He can’t. It’s a perfect example of what legalism produces…..Pharisees, hypocrites, actors, pretenders.