Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace
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God intended on destroying Nineveh. But God is also full of grace. If Nineveh repented, God would repent. See Jeremiah 18. This is the mind of God.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
God spoke concerning the city of Nineveh. Nineveh repented. God repented in return. Scripture is full of if...then...statements. Why? Because God has given man a choice when confronted with the word of God.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
God spoke concerning the city of Nineveh. Nineveh repented. God repented in return. Scripture is full of if...then...statements. Why? Because God has given man a choice when confronted with the word of God.
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First of all, the second is not an option for me. And I am aligned with scripture.
Your understanding requires God to change His mind. That's an impossibility. God cannot repent either. He merely turned away from judgment as He always does when there is repentance.
Your understanding has God acting outside of what is possible for Him. Why isn't that a problem for you?
Your understanding requires God to change His mind. That's an impossibility. God cannot repent either. He merely turned away from judgment as He always does when there is repentance.
Your understanding has God acting outside of what is possible for Him. Why isn't that a problem for you?
Wow...God performs evil. Ummm...no.
My sheep hear my voice...not as my sheep hear my voice.
If you want to say the Bible is literal, don't pick and choose. Either get sheared annually and start eating grass, or admit that there's a little more to understanding the Bible than a simple reading of it.
My sheep hear my voice...not as my sheep hear my voice.
If you want to say the Bible is literal, don't pick and choose. Either get sheared annually and start eating grass, or admit that there's a little more to understanding the Bible than a simple reading of it.
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I do not believe 1 Cor 2:14 refers to the gospel. I believe 1 Cor 2:14 relates to deeper spiritual matters that Paul discussed among more mature believers in the church at Corinth.
1 Corinthians 2:1-2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
For the most part, Paul preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified to the believers in the church at Corinth. Jesus Christ and Him crucified refers to the gospel.
However, beginning at 1 Cor 2:6, Scripture tells us Paul also spoke to more mature believers concerning deeper spiritual matters:
1 Corinthians 2:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek teleios = mature; of full age]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
vs 6 – the wisdom which was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).
vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.
vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (indeed, all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby ... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.
vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
I understand that is what you believe and it appears that what you are saying is that a person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which a person is born again.
So you've got a person born again in order to be born again.
How many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly born again?
.
1 Corinthians 2:1-2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
For the most part, Paul preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified to the believers in the church at Corinth. Jesus Christ and Him crucified refers to the gospel.
However, beginning at 1 Cor 2:6, Scripture tells us Paul also spoke to more mature believers concerning deeper spiritual matters:
1 Corinthians 2:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect [Greek teleios = mature; of full age]: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
vs 6 – the wisdom which was discussed among the mature believers ... the gospel was taught in the general congregation (vss 1-2).
vs 7 – the wisdom of God in a mystery ... this wisdom was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25); and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men (Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (Eph 3:9); and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest (Col 1:26). Please understand, the gospel was never hid ... the gospel is proclaimed throughout all of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.
vs 8 – if the devil and his minions had known the mystery, the hidden wisdom, they never would have crucified the Lord Jesus Christ.
vs 9 – the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 10 – the deep things of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel). The gospel is considered milk upon which the new believer (indeed, all believers) is to desire so that he/she may grow thereby ... the mystery, the hidden wisdom is (scripturally) considered to be strong meat.
vs 11 – the things of God which no man knoweth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 12 – the things that are freely given to us of God go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 13 – things which the Holy Ghost teacheth go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
vs 14 – the things of the Spirit of God and specifically the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom go beyond the scope of Christ, and Him crucified (the gospel).
I understand that is what you believe and it appears that what you are saying is that a person must be born again before he or she can believe the gospel by which a person is born again.
So you've got a person born again in order to be born again.
How many times must a person be born again before he or she is really, really, really, truly born again?
.
... rogerg, just read Scripture as written by the Author and quit adding conditions to what God has written:Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Clearly God does not consider faith to be works.
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renewed
But you dead wrong, it does refers to the Gospel [Christ Crucified], that was Pauls main focus among them 1 Cor 2:1-2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
But you dead wrong, it does refers to the Gospel [Christ Crucified], that was Pauls main focus among them 1 Cor 2:1-2
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Is he not? Did he once say, "Eye for an eye?" Did he change that to, "Turn the other cheek?" How about Hezekiah? God told Hezekiah that he was going to die. Hezekiah cried out to the Lord, and the Lord changed his mind and added 15 years to his life. If God cannot change the course of direction, why pray? Our God is reachable and touchable with our prayers. God has all authority to change his direction if he sees fit. God has other attributes than "Sovereignty," which btw, is nowhere found in the bible...not the way Calvin defines the term.
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